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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:36 pm 
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realist wrote:
Docket Update...
Quote:
09/26/12 1362681 - mprfile
MPR 4) Motion for Preliminary Injunction filed by Plaintiff H. Brooke Paige. Motion for Preliminary Injunction.
Documents filed: Motion for Injunctive Relief; Pltf's; Declarative Statement and Affidavit; Relating to Conduct by Bar Counsel of; the VT Supreme Court's Professional; Responsibility Program; Attachments.

Might this be a PHV application by Apuzzo?

Another possibility is that this loony plaintiff Brooke Paige submitted a complaint against the attorney for the State of Vermont. Paige posted this painfully stupid remark on nbc's blog a few weeks ago:
Brooke Paige wrote:
Oh, by the way what the heck is Vermont Attorney General, Bill Sorrell doing taking sides in all of this. It is Obama that must prove that he is qualified – for the State of Vermont to choose sides in this matter is extremely interesting as the Secretary of State, Jim Condos) only has a ministerial relationship in conducting the Election and Sorrell’s only interest in the action should be to represent Condos. Seem odd for Sorrell to be picking winners instead of the Judge. Mr. Sorrell, it might be wise to remember that its Election Time and a “miss” here will be fresh on the Democrat’s minds in November!

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:26 pm 
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From Burlington Free Press:
Quote:
State asks judge to dismiss Obama 'natural born citizen' case
The lawsuit brought by a former Republican U.S. Senate candidate seeking to have President Barack Obama tossed from Vermont’s November election ballot because he is allegedly not a natural-born citizen is “legally unsound” and should be dismissed, the state of Vermont contends in court papers.

“Plaintiff lacks standing to sue, has sought relief in the wrong forum, requests relief that cannot be granted and bases his argument on flawed legal reasoning,” Assistant Attorney General Todd W. Daloz wrote in a dismissal motion filed at Washington Superior Court in Montpelier.
[...]
Paige said Thursday he was preparing a several-hundred-page response to Daloz’s motion. :roll: “I’m quite certain it’s flawed,” he said, referring to the state’s motion to dismiss.
[...]
“While this is the first so-called ‘birther’ lawsuit in Vermont, such suits have a robust legal history, one that heretofore produced uniform results: dismissal,” Daloz wrote.

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Brook Paige wrote:
Paige said Thursday he Mario Apuzzo was preparing a several-hundred-page response to Daloz’s motion.


FIFH

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Several hundred pages? That's a lot of cutting and pasting.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:02 am 
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ZekeB wrote:
Several hundred pages? That's a lot of cutting and pasting.


He's cutting and pasting from Mario Apuzzo. Apuzzo can't say "I'm taking a dump" in under 500 words.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:11 am 
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PatGund wrote:
ZekeB wrote:
Several hundred pages? That's a lot of cutting and pasting.


He's cutting and pasting from Mario Apuzzo. Apuzzo can't say "I'm taking a dump" in under 500 words.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:32 am 
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Don't remember where we were on this one, but...

Docket Update

Quote:
10/04/12 1363692 - mpreo
Entry order re MPR 4) Motion for Preliminary Injunction.
M/Reaction Form. denied by RRB. 1. Rule for admission pro hace vice
should be followed - see entry.
1363693 - note
Entry Order filed.
1363694 - letsent
Copies of Order mailed to counsel letter sent to Plaintiff H.
Brooke Paige and Defendant State of Vermont.

10/10/12 1364432 - mprmemo

Party 1 [Paige] filed response to MPR 3.
1364434 - mprfile
MPR 5) Request for Instruction to Defendants for Timely filed
by Plaintiff H. Brooke Paige. Request for Instruction to Defendants
for Timely. Documents filed: Request for Instruction to Defendants;
for Timely Response to Verified; Complaint.
1364436 - mprfile
MPR 6) Motion for Expedited Hearing filed by Plaintiff H.
Brooke Paige. Motion for Expedited Hearing. Documents filed: Motion for Expedited Hearing.
1364438 - mprfile
MPR 7) Motion for Reconsideration of Motion for Inform filed
by Plaintiff H. Brooke Paige. Motion for Reconsideration of Motion
for Inform. Documents filed: Motion for Reconsideration of Motion
for; Informal Legal Assistance; proposed; Order.

10/16/12 1365097 - mprjudge
MPR 3) Motion to Dismiss given to Judge Robert R. Bent.

10/19/12 1365616 - mprmemo
Party 2 filed response to MPR 3.

10/22/12 1365814 - document
4 documents filed for party 1: Plaintiff's Declaration
Relating to; Service of Process on Defendant Obama.
1365815 - mprfile
MPR 8) Motion for Finding of Due Diligence or Service filed
by Defendant Barack Hussein Obama Candidate. Motion for Finding of
Due Diligence or Service. Documents filed: Plaintiff's Request for a
finding of; due diligence or an order authorizing; service of process
by publication.



=============================

Also. Too. A little summary status...

Quote:
MOTIONS/PETITIONS/REQUESTS FOR RELIEF
No. Type Status Judge Date
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 M/for Alternative Service denied RRB 09/21/12
2 P/to Prohibit Further Dissemination denied RRB 09/21/12
3 M/to Dismiss judge RRB 10/16/12
4 M/for Preliminary Injunction denied RRB 10/04/12
5 R/for Instruction to Defendants for Timely 10/10/12
6 M/for Expedited Hearing 10/10/12
7 M/for Reconsideration of Motion for Inform 10/10/12
8 M/for Finding of Due Diligence or Service 10/22/12

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:18 am 
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Case dismissed. Another disgusting waste of judicial resources. :madz:

From the Burlington FreePress
Sam Hemingway wrote:
Judge Robert Bent, in a seven-page decision filed Wednesday at Vermont Superior Court in Montpelier, ruled that the case brought by H. Brooke Paige of the town of Washington was improperly filed in state court instead of federal court, but lacked merit anyway.

“Mr. Paige’s lawsuit, interesting as it is for its extensive historical analysis, has no viability because he has no standing and the court has no jurisdiction,” Bent wrote. “It is dismissed in its entirety.”

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:29 am 
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Quote:

Quote:
[Judge] Bent cited a 2009 decision by an Indiana court that addressed a similar claim and concluded the natural-born-citizen challenge to Obama’s claim on the presidency lacked merit.

“The expression ‘natural born citizen’ is not dependent on the nationality of the parents but reflects the status of a person born into citizenship instead of having citizenship subsequently bestowed,” Bent wrote.

Wherever you are, Mr. Ankeny, thank you again!

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:23 am 
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In September Paige was so confident he would win he posted this as part of a comment on his suit:

Quote:
At the end of the day - what you think, what I think, what the press think matters not, the Presiding Judge's studied opinion is he only one that counts.
<snip>
So let's allow Judge Bent to review the law and make his determination - as Mr. Obama's place of birth and the citizenship of his parents is mutually agreed upon by the parties.


I wonder how he feels about that today?

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:03 pm 
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I couldn't find the ruling posted anywhere, but the article says it was 7 pages long. We know that a 7 page ruling could not possibly do justice to the "natural born citizen" vs. "natural born Citizen" argument. Since the judge clearly did not write a 200-page tome systematcially adressing each of Mario Apuzzo's arguments, I'd say this is another win for Mario! :-bd

Just like all the 150 or so other birfer losses. [-X

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:13 pm 
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Quote:
Current Case Docket Information
Court record: 61947
Vermont Superior Court Washington Civil Division
_______________________________________________________________________________
| |
| Docket No. 611-8-12 Wncv Paige vs. State of Vermont et al |
|______________________________________________________________________________|
Case Type: Last judge: Robert R. Bent
Case Track: Not set Recused: None
Case Status: Disposed
Court/Jury: Court trial
Next Hearing:
================================================================================
PARTIES
No. Role Litigant Name Attorney Name Telephone
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
p# 1 plf Paige, H. Brooke Pro Se
p# 2 def State of Vermont Daloz, Todd J.W.
p# 3 def Condos, James Secretary of StaDaloz, Todd J.W.
p# 4 def Obama, Barack Hussein Candidate
===============================================================================
DISPUTES
DsptCase Name Disputants Dispo Date
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 cmpl Declaratory Judgment p#1 v p#2 dc 11/14/12
2 cmpl Declaratory Judgment p#1 v p#3 dc 11/14/12
3 cmpl Declaratory Judgment p#1 v p#4 dc 11/14/12
================================================================================
MOTIONS/PETITIONS/REQUESTS FOR RELIEF
No. Type Status Judge Date
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 M/for Alternative Service denied RRB 09/21/12
2 P/to Prohibit Further Dissemination denied RRB 09/21/12
3 M/to Dismiss granted RRB 11/14/12
4 M/for Preliminary Injunction denied RRB 10/04/12
5 R/for Instruction to Defendants for Timely 10/10/12
6 M/for Expedited Hearing 10/10/12
7 M/for Reconsideration of Motion for Inform 10/10/12
8 M/for Finding of Due Diligence or Service 10/22/12
9 M/for Default Judgement denied RRB 11/14/12
================================================================================
08/27/12
1359262 - partyadd
H. Brooke Paige, Plaintiff.
1359263 - couprose
Notice of Pro Se appearance filed by Plaintiff H. Brooke
Paige.
1359264 - partyadd
State of Vermont, Defendant.
1359265 - partyadd
James Condos Secretary of State, Defendant.
1359266 - partyadd
Barack Hussein Obama Candidate, Defendant.
1359267 - cvfile - status set to asd
Declaratory Judgment case filed by Plaintiff H. Brooke Paige
against Defendant State of Vermont and Defendant James Condos
Secretary of State and Defendant Barack Hussein Obama Candidate.
1359269 - letsent
letter advising of docket number assigned letter sent to
Plaintiff H. Brooke Paige.

09/12/12
1360783 - entorder
Entry Order by Judge Robert R. Bent:. The Court accepts his
filing as a notice that Mr. Paige is representing himself. Under Rule
3, the defen- dants must be served within 60 days of the filing of
the complaint or this action may be dismissed. The court will take no
further action in this case until the parties have been served
properly.
1360786 - letsent
Copies of Order mailed to counsel letter sent to Plaintiff H. Brooke Paige.

09/18/12 Service complete on party(s) 2: personal service. Documents served:
Return of Service serving Summons &; Complaint w/attachments.
Service complete on party(s) 3: personal service. Documents served:
Return of Service of Summons &; Complaint w/attachments.
1361615 - mprfile
MPR 1) Motion for Alternative Service filed by Plaintiff H.
Brooke Paige. Motion for Alternative Service. Documents filed:
Plaintiff's Declaration re: "Entry"; Statement by Judge Bent dated

9/11/12; and proposed order re: service of; process; proposed Order.
1361633 - mprjudge
MPR 1) Motion for Alternative Service given to Judge Robert
R. Bent.

09/20/12
1361978 - document
4 documents filed for party 1: Plaintiff's Declaratry
Statement; Relating to Petition for Order; Preventing Eminent Action
by the; Division of Elections.
1361979 - mprfile
MPR 2) Petition to Prohibit Further Dissemination filed by
Plaintiff H. Brooke Paige. Petition to Prohibit Further
Dissemination. Documents filed: Petition to Prohibit Further Public;
Dissemination of Information Relating; to this Case; proposed Order;
Attach.

09/21/12
1362093 - mpreo
Entry order re MPR's 1-2: 1) Motion for Alternative Service;
2) Petition to Prohibit Further Dissemination. M/Reaction Form.
denied by RRB.
1362094 - note
Decision on Motion for Alternative service & Motion for
temporary Restrain- ing Orders:ORDER - Mr. Paige's motion for
alternative service as is his motion for temporary restraining order
(see file for complete decision); Copy mailed to Mr. Paige( left
message on this phone) & hand-given to State for Atty Daloz.
1362096 - letsent
Copies of Order mailed to counsel letter sent to Plaintiff H.
Brooke Paige.
1362099 - couappr
Appearance entered by Todd J.W. Daloz on behalf of Defendant
State of Vermont and Defendant James Condos Secretary of State.

09/25/12
1362462 - mprfile
MPR 3) Motion to Dismiss filed by Defendant State of Vermont
and Defendant James Condos Secretary of State. Motion to Dismiss.
Documents filed: Defendants' Motion to Dismiss.

09/26/12
1362681 - mprfile
MPR 4) Motion for Preliminary Injunction filed by Plaintiff
H. Brooke Paige. Motion for Preliminary Injunction. Documents filed:
Motion for Injunctive Relief; Pltf's; Declarative Statement and
Affidavit; Relating to Conduct by Bar Counsel of; the VT Supreme
Court's Professional; Responsibility Program; Attachments.

09/27/12
1362875 - document
3 documents filed for party 1: List of methods utilized to
serve; Barack Obama; USPS Express Mail Service; Priority Mail; First
Class Mail; FedEx.

10/04/12
1363692 - mpreo
Entry order re MPR 4) Motion for Preliminary Injunction.
M/Reaction Form. denied by RRB. 1. Rule for admission pro hace vice
should be followed - see entry.
1363693 - note
Entry Order filed.
1363694 - letsent
Copies of Order mailed to counsel letter sent to Plaintiff H.
Brooke Paige and Defendant State of Vermont.

10/10/12
1364432 - mprmemo
Party 1 filed response to MPR 3.
1364434 - mprfile
MPR 5) Request for Instruction to Defendants for Timely filed
by Plaintiff H. Brooke Paige. Request for Instruction to Defendants
for Timely. Documents filed: Request for Instruction to Defendants;
for Timely Response to Verified; Complaint.
1364436 - mprfile
MPR 6) Motion for Expedited Hearing filed by Plaintiff H.
Brooke Paige. Motion for Expedited Hearing. Documents filed: Motion
for Expedited Hearing.
1364438 - mprfile
MPR 7) Motion for Reconsideration of Motion for Inform filed
by Plaintiff H. Brooke Paige. Motion for Reconsideration of Motion
for Inform. Documents filed: Motion for Reconsideration of Motion
for; Informal Legal Assistance; proposed; Order.

10/16/12
1365097 - mprjudge
MPR 3) Motion to Dismiss given to Judge Robert R. Bent.
10/19/12
1365616 - mprmemo
Party 2 filed response to MPR 3.

10/22/12
1365814 - document
4 documents filed for party 1: Plaintiff's Declaration
Relating to; Service of Process on Defendant Obama.
1365815 - mprfile
MPR 8) Motion for Finding of Due Diligence or Service filed
by Defendant Barack Hussein Obama Candidate. Motion for Finding of
Due Diligence or Service. Documents filed: Plaintiff's Request for a
finding of; due diligence or an order authorizing; service of process
by publication.

10/24/12
1366089 - mprjudge
MPR 3) Motion to Dismiss given to Judge Robert R. Bent.
1366103 - mprstat
MPR 3 status changed to tickled.
1366187 - mprmemo
Party 1 filed response to MPR 3.

10/31/12
1366929 - document
4 documents filed for party 1: Plaintiff's Submission of
Newly; Published legal Dissertation Directly; Related to the Issues
in the Action of; Paige v. State of VT, et al.

11/01/12
1367038 - note
File submitted.
1367175 - mprfile
MPR 9) Motion for Default Judgement filed by Plaintiff H.
Brooke Paige. Motion for Default Judgement. Documents filed:
Plaintiff's Request for Entry of; Default against Dft. Barack Obama;
Affidavit in support of Request.

11/08/12
1368165 - note
Letter filed by pro se Pltf requesting hearing; certificate
of service.

11/09/12
1368270 - note
Mr. Paige requested he be called on his cell phone (224-6076)
when hearing is set.

11/14/12
1368694 - mprstat
MPR 3 status changed to granted.
1368695 - mprstat
MPR 9 status changed to denied.
1368696 - letsent
Copies of Order mailed to counsel letter sent to Plaintiff H.
Brooke Paige and Defendant State of Vermont.
1368697 - cvdisp - status set to dis
Dispute 1-3 disposed: dismissed by court.

11/15/12
1369031 - document
3 documents filed for party 1: Entry of Ruling of the Vermont
Supreme; Court - PRB's findings as related to; this action.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Quote:
MPR 3 status changed to tickled


What does that mean? Are they serious?

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:30 pm 
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UPDATE

VT - PAIGE v OBAMA, et al. - DECISION

link shortly

BIG H/T TO Burlington Press \:D/

Quote:
While Mr. Apuzzo mightily attempts to distinguish the conclusion of the United States Supreme Court in Wong Kim Ark, that English common law was adopted as to which model of citizenship was intended by the original framers, this court concludes that his arguments are, in the face of such a decision, academic only.


And even better...

Quote:
But there is no provision in law for the court to do more than allow Mr. Apuzzo to be admitted on a pro hac vice basis, presuming he qualifies. The court has no authority to make up special rules for this situation or give dispensation for unlawful conduct.


:-bd

And while they were up :lol: and for judicial economy they addressed the merits of Mr. Paige's submission... basically, there are none. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:24 pm 
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esseff44 wrote:
Quote:
MPR 3 status changed to tickled

What does that mean? Are they serious?

"Tickle" is a bit of (funny) legal jargon. It means there's an action that needs to be set for some later date, and that a reminder for that action needs to be created.

So "tickling" a case in (say) six weeks means reviewing (or some other action) it in six weeks. It is a method to make sure cases don't fall by the wayside. A good clerk will always make sure every case has a next-action date, so no case goes into judicial limbo.

"MPR 3 status changed to tickled" means in this context a reminder was set up for MPR 3 (the motion to dismiss) to be reviewed and/or placed on the docket.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:40 pm 
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That is quite a common practice for salesfolks. You have a "tickle file" of clients that you are meeting with or call on - on a certain date... It is a reminder system to do stuff.

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Much obliged for the explanations.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:51 pm 
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bob wrote:
esseff44 wrote:
Quote:
MPR 3 status changed to tickled

What does that mean? Are they serious?

"Tickle" is a bit of (funny) legal jargon. It means there's an action that needs to be set for some later date, and that a reminder for that action needs to be created.

So "tickling" a case in (say) six weeks means reviewing (or some other action) it in six weeks. It is a method to make sure cases don't fall by the wayside. A good clerk will always make sure every case has a next-action date, so no case goes into judicial limbo.

"MPR 3 status changed to tickled" means in this context a reminder was set up for MPR 3 (the motion to dismiss) to be reviewed and/or placed on the docket.

Offtopic :
It's also a term from traditional newspapers (where I worked for 15 years) -- every beat reporter and particularly city beat reporters would have a 'tickler file' with reminders of upcoming events, deadlines for decisions and meetings, statutory events like budgets, hearings, elections, and so forth. But also things that wouldn't be on any official calendar, but that related to their coverage, like say they got a quote from a school official that a certain program would begin to show results in six months. Tickler file -- and check back with the official six months later.

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:37 am 
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Looks like Paige also has Birther Defective Service Disease.

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:34 am 
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.. And a brand new twitter account

https://twitter.com/vtnewsboy

He doesn't like being called a birther.

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:31 am 
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Apuzzo: The Vermont Court Errs in Dismissing Presidential Ballot Challenge H. Brooke Paige v. Barack Obama:
Quote:
As to standing, Judge Bent ruled that Vermont has adopted the federal rule on standing which requires a litigant to satisfy both the requirements of Article III and its related prudential component. He explained that standing requires a litigant to show injury in fact, causation, and redressability. He concluded that Paige has not shown injury in fact. But Barack Obama has again won the general election. He now stands to win the Electoral College vote. Paige has adequately shown that his life, liberty, and property can be particularly injured by having to live under the authority and power of a person who may occupy the Office of President and Commander in Chief of the Military who may not be constitutionally eligible to be there in the first place for not being a “natural born Citizen.” Mr. Paige has adequately shown that the Founders and Framers required future presidents to be “natural born Citizens” to protect and preserve the nation. Hence, the clause is a national security measure designed to assure the safety of the nation. Needless to say, the “natural born Citizen” clause is intended to protect and preserve Mr. Paige and to provide for his safety and well-being. That the clause protects all Americans is no reason to deny Mr. Paige its protection in a legal action in which he seeks to have the courts enforce the clause.

[...]

Judge Bent also concluded that the Vermont state courts or any state courts have no jurisdiction over the question of whether a presidential candidate is constitutionally eligible because for a state court to get involved in the matter could potentially create national chaos. But such speculation is no reason to deny jurisdiction and to deny Mr. Paige a judicial forum for him to protect his constitutional rights. As we saw above, our nation’s courts are more than capable to handle and coordinate complex legal matters and any state challenge would be fast tracked to the U.S. Supreme Court which would decide the matter for all the states. Finally, Judge Bent was not sure whether Congress in joint session under 3 U.S.C. Sec. 15 has the authority to address the issue of presidential eligibility which would make the matter a nonjusticiable political question. Hence, without any say from the courts (both state and federal given the standing rule and the requirements of jurisdiction that he imposes) or Congress, Judge Bent does not allow for any means for resolving under the rule of law any question of presidential eligibility in our constitutional republic.

[...]

Judge Bent said that Vattel’s use of “parents” in the plural does not have any "particular significance." Judge Bent said that “[t]hus far, no judicial decisions have adopted such logic in connection with this or any related issues.” But first, Vattel is not the only person to use the word “parents” in the plural, for the above cited U.S. Supreme Court Justices and case law also did. So Judge Bent actually told us that there is no “particular significance” to the U.S. Supreme Court’s use of the term “parents.” Second, Judge Bent failed to address the fact that at the time of the founding and until 1922 when Congress passed the Cable Act, a wife’s citizenship merged into that of the husband. Hence, “parents,” meaning both husband and wife, always had the same citizenship. Third, “parents” in the plural is nothing new to our citizenship and naturalization laws, for there are so many such statutes in our history that required both parents to be citizens in order for the child to gain any naturalization or immigration benefits. Fourth, Judge Bent accepted that because other cases were fortuitously decided before his, he is bound by those cases and relinquished his own independent thinking on the matter.

[...]

In discussing Ankeny, Judge Bent said that “‘natural born Citizen’ is not dependent on the nationality of the parents but reflects the status of a person born into citizenship instead of having citizenship subsequently bestowed. The distinction is eminently logical.” But upon close examination, this distinction is not logical at all. This argument is tantamount to arguing that any person who is a “citizen at birth” is a “natural born Citizen.” This is fallacious reasoning called the fallacy of affirming the consequent. We know from the definition of a “natural-born citizen” provided by Minor and other historical sources and U.S. Supreme Court case law cited, that satisfying the definition means that one is necessarily a “citizen” from the moment of birth. But being a citizen from the moment of birth is a necessary condition of being a “natural born Citizen.” It is not a sufficient condition, for according to Minor v. Happersett, the definition also contains the two requirements of being born in the country to “citizen” parents. Hence, just showing that one was “a citizen at birth” only satisfies part of the definition which by the very nature of the definition is necessary but not sufficient. Here is an example of this fallacy: If someone is smart, then someone is a professor. Someone is a professor. Therefore someone is smart. This argument is not valid. It demonstrates the fallacy of affirming the consequent. The first premise does not state that if one is a professor one is smart. Rather, it states that being a professor is the consequence of or follows from being smart. So, being a professor does not necessarily mean that one is smart. So likewise, the definition of a “natural born Citizen” does not state that being “a citizen at birth” makes one a “natural born Citizen.” Rather, being “a citizen at birth” is the consequent of or follows from being a “natural born Citizen.” Being “a citizen at birth” does not prove that one is a “natural born Citizen,” for the other two conditions of being a “natural born Citizen” must also be proven. There is also case law and statutes which prove that simply being “a citizen at birth” does not make one a “natural born Citizen.” Wong Kim Ark and Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. 815(1971) said that children born out of the United States to “citizen” parents are citizens at birth, but are made such by naturalization statutes of Congress and not the common law or even the Fourteenth Amendment. We know from a plain reading of these statutes that they only define “citizens of the United States” and not “natural born Citizens.”

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:19 am 
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Occupation: Harvester of the souless, labeller of the deluded, flayer of the intolerant...Birfoons have accused me of being heartless....It's not true I do have a heart, of a small child, in a box, under my bed.
Mario is just phoning it in, for DoG's sake this little diatribe of risible nonsense comes in at less than 5,000 words, his previous opus ran up over 55,000 words...... [-X

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:49 am 
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bob wrote:
Apuzzo: [url=http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-vermont-court-errs-in-dismissing.html]
... In discussing Ankeny, Judge Bent said that “‘natural born Citizen’ is not dependent on the nationality of the parents but reflects the status of a person born into citizenship instead of having citizenship subsequently bestowed. The distinction is eminently logical.” But upon close examination, this distinction is not logical at all. This argument is tantamount to arguing that any person who is a “citizen at birth” is a “natural born Citizen.” ...


Mario writes it but doesn't believe it!! Yes, Mario, any person who is a citizen at birth IS a natural born citizen! The courts keep telling you, that's the law of the United States, and it doesn't matter what's in your crazy racist bloviating mind, it's The Law. Geddoverit.

The courts say one thing. Apuzzo says otherwise. Which is correct: the entire legal system of the country, or a logorrheaic idiot? Tricky call that, yeah, tricky.

Mario says something is "not logical". OK, he's an expert on not-logic. But only in producing it, not identifying it.


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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:57 am 
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bob wrote:


[Bla bla bla bla bla]

How can anyone stand to read even a sentence from this babbling windbag? How can anyone say so little in so many words?

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 Post subject: Vermont Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:37 am 
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This kind of screed is why I enjoy seeing Mario fail. He doesn't just do the standard birther thing of saying the court (and every court) is wrong. He writes as if it's incredulous that a court would make such a ruling and doesn't ever reference the fact that every other court to have ever addressed the issue has reached the same conclusion. He writes as if 99 courts have all said "Two citizen parents!" and this one is a baffling outlier, when he, and we, all know the opposite.

For this and many other reasons I am gleeful you have again failed, Mario.

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