Afghanistan

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Uninformed
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Re: Afghanistan

#126

Post by Uninformed »

In the UK if you are are one of the many who cease paying attention after the headline broadcast or print news you would definitely come away with the “fact” that Biden made the decision to leave Afghanistan. It’s unsurprising that little was said at the time the agreement was made with the Taliban - no drama, no outraged editorials. There is no doubt that the “evacuation” is a mess but I generally agree with Stonekettle’s opinion:
https://www.stonekettle.com/2021/08/bitter-pill.html

Annoyingly Tony Blair, someone I once admired :blackeye: has weighed in with what appears to be an amazingly one-sided analysis. The view(s) he espouses seem to me to be the 20-21st century version of colonialism - still effectively forcing foreign cultures to adopt your values. He is right that this debacle will energise other movements like the Taliban but I believe this was and is an inevitable outcome.

The way and speed with which the Afghan armed forces and government collapsed is sad testament to how superficial the changes to Afghan culture have been.
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Re: Afghanistan

#127

Post by p0rtia »

I remember when various countries teamed up to go into Iraq. The US supplied most of the power, but the UK was gung-ho. Tony Blair, when asked why we should do this, said, "Because we can." These words struck me, because 1) he was saying that there was evil in the world and we had the chance to defeat it, so we should--and needed no other reason than this high moral stance, and 2) because I was pretty sure we couldn't.

He should keep his fucking mouth shut today.
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Re: Afghanistan

#128

Post by Slim Cognito »

Yeah, that!
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Re: Afghanistan

#129

Post by tencats »

Top 6 Ways Trump forced Abrupt US Departure from Afghanistan; and that Time Trump said Taliban would take over War on Terror
08/22/2021
https://www.juancole.com/2021/08/depart ... liban.html
3. On February 29, 2020, Trump announces peace in our time, with the signing of a peace treaty with the Taliban. The BBC wrote, “President Trump said it had been a ‘long and hard journey’ in Afghanistan. ‘It’s time after all these years to bring our people back home.'”

The BBC quoted Trump further about the US combat mission against terrorists in Afghanistan; he said, “it was ‘time for someone else to do that work and it will be the Taliban and it could be surrounding countries. I really believe the Taliban wants to do something to show we’re not all wasting time.'” Trump did say, “If bad things happen, we’ll go back with a force like no-one’s ever seen.”

Please note that Trump said he believed that the Taliban would take up the slack in fighting terrorism in Afghanistan, and that he really believed the Taliban wanted peace. As for his threat to go back in, he did not seem to realize that it would not be that easy once the U.S. was out.

In all the press pillorying of President Biden, which has barely mentioned Trump, I have seen no one mention that Trump once claimed that upon the US withdrawal the Taliban would take up the war on terror. Even while he was talking with them, the Taliban occasionally brought old al-Qaeda commandos to the parts of Afghanistan they controlled.

In the treaty, Trump promised to pull 8,500 troops out of the country in about 4 1/2 months. He pledged that the Afghanistan government of Ashraf Ghani would release 5,000 captured Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters. Ashraf Ghani at first resisted this provision, saying he was not party to the talks and thought it a horrible idea. But under strong Trump pressure, Ghani let the fighters go by the following October.

In return for these steps and for a promise that the U.S. would withdraw completely from Afghanistan, the Taliban pledged not to attack the remaining U.S. troops in the country by May 1, 2021. When you hear advocates of staying in Afghanistan forever say that US troops had not been attacked in the past 18 months, that is why. They stopped the attacks because Trump promised to leave. If Biden had reneged and stayed, then US troops would have been in the cross-hairs again.

The February, 2020, peace treaty was clearly rushed through by Trump in hopes it would add to his popularity and help him win the November, 2020 presidential election.

4. On October 8, 2020, Trump tweeted out that all US troops would be out of Afghanistan by Christmas of that year. His Tweet took Mark Esper, the Secretary of Defense, Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, and Ashraf Ghani, the president of Afghanistan by surprise, or, more likely, by shock. Julian Borger at The Guardian quoted Ashley Jackson, “the director of the ODI’s Centre for the Study of Armed Groups” as saying at the time, “This is the last leverage the US had left in talks with the Taliban, and Trump is proposing to give it away for free.” Not only did Trump telegraph the endgame and give up all leverage but what he said did not even make any sense. There was no way logistically to get the then 4,500 troops out of the country. Nor was it just a one-time Trump mindfart. The administration confirmed the Christmas deadline the next day.

Again, this announcement was clearly meant to appeal to the Trump base, many of them white working class who resented their tax dollars paying for a 20-year foreign misadventure.

Read it all at https://www.juancole.com/2021/08/depart ... liban.html
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Re: Afghanistan

#130

Post by Uninformed »

Being a bit forgetful I sometimes overlook that everything the DFO does is “transactional” and all you have to do is identify the “quid pro quo”. Even so, it’s a bit surprising that someone who is so treacherous expects anyone else keep to a bargain (although I’m loathe to admit the Taliban seem to have been fairly compliant so far).
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Re: Afghanistan

#131

Post by Kendra »



Damn, I'm out of free articles for the month :/
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Re: Afghanistan

#132

Post by Uninformed »

Apologies for going on about this but the “selective” reporting in the UK, including the BBC, has amazed me. The latest skewed reporting is that the UK is requesting that the USA keep its forces in Afghanistan Beyond August 31st, with not one report saying that in reality this is up to the agreement of the Taliban.
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Re: Afghanistan

#133

Post by Dave from down under »

Perhaps a letter to the editor reminding the UK of the first Anglo-Afghan war..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_retreat_from_Kabul
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Re: Afghanistan

#134

Post by Uninformed »

I was a little hasty; it seems someone has already had a word and the BBC has changed their wording. The media in general us still crap though.
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Re: Afghanistan

#135

Post by Suranis »

Yu can thank the revenge of Tony Blair for gutting the BBC News and turning it the relatively crap organisation it is today.
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Re: Afghanistan

#136

Post by fierceredpanda »

Dave from down under wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:47 am Perhaps a letter to the editor reminding the UK of the first Anglo-Afghan war..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_retreat_from_Kabul
I'd been thinking about General Elphinstone a lot lately.

Interesting side note: Rory Stewart - who once made an excellent two-part television series called Afghanistan: The Great Game which recounted the history of Afghanistan as the graveyard of empires and more or less argued for the US to get out like ten years ago - is apparently now saying the US should stay in Afghanistan.

If there's one useful thing about this whole sorry affair, it is the extent to which it has made advocates for staying in Afghanistan beclown themselves. Twenty years, a couple trillion dollars, and God-only-knows how many lives lost on all sides got us eleven days before the Afghan government utterly collapsed. Just exactly how long would we have had to stay to make them last as long as, say, the ill-fated government of South Vietnam? "We're winning" means we have to stay, and "we're not winning" (because the words "we're losing" must never be spoken) means we have to stay. And all in the service of a nation that has never really united around anything except "kill the foreign invaders."
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Re: Afghanistan

#137

Post by Foggy »

Plus, opium causes weird looking hounds. :P
The more I learn about this planet, the more improbable it all seems. :confuzzled:
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Re: Afghanistan

#138

Post by Dave from down under »

Long haired layabouts ;)
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Re: Afghanistan

#139

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Re: Afghanistan

#140

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Afghanistan

#141

Post by Slim Cognito »

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News ... 629805387/
Airbnb says it will house at least 20,000 refugees from Afghanistan

Aug. 24 (UPI) -- Online rental platform Airbnb announced on Tuesday that it's planning to put up at least 20,000 refugees from Afghanistan at properties around the world at no cost.

The announcement came after a week of chaos in Afghanistan, where tens of thousands of Western citizens and Afghans scrambled to find flights out of the country -- and for those who have gotten out, places to stay.
This article doesn't say how the homeowners will be compensated.
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Re: Afghanistan

#142

Post by tencats »

Taliban doubles down on Aug. 31 deadline, says Afghans no longer allowed to reach Kabul airport
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... jW2A14tWXI
Today at 12:03 p.m. EDT
The Taliban is still allowing foreign nationals to leave, Mujahid said, but the group is stopping Afghan nationals from reaching the airport on grounds it is dangerous and their skills are needed to rebuild the country. “We are asking the Americans please change your policy and don’t encourage Afghans to leave,” he said.

President Biden may decide as soon as Tuesday whether to push back the United States’ deadline to withdraw from Afghanistan, according to numerous reports. Thousands of foreigners and vulnerable Afghans continue to flood Kabul’s airport in hopes of fleeing Taliban rule.

The military has reportedly told the White House that a call must be made by Tuesday to have enough time to plan the withdrawal of nearly 6,000 U.S. troops securing the Kabul airlift. Although the pace of evacuations has quickened in recent days, Biden faces mounting pressure from allied nations to extend the mission and allow for more vulnerable people to flee. The leaders of the Group of Seven nations are meeting Tuesday, providing a window to discuss evacuation plans.

The United States and allied countries flew nearly 21,700 people out of Kabul in a 24-hour window ending Tuesday, the White House said. Since Aug. 14, the United States alone has evacuated more than 58,000 people.

The Taliban on Monday pushed into the last remaining corner of Afghanistan beyond the group’s control, sending hundreds of fighters to the outskirts of the northern Panjshir Valley and vowing to quash a fledgling resistance movement in the province.
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Re: Afghanistan

#143

Post by tencats »

Anti-Taliban fighters dig in to defend Panjshir Valley
The NRF is the most prominent Afghan opposition group to emerge since the Taliban captured Kabul nine days ago.
24 Aug 2021
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/2 ... om-taliban
With militia fighters and former government soldiers in its ranks, the NRF has set up machine gun nests, mortars and surveillance posts fortified with sandbags in anticipation of a Taliban assault on their bastion, the Panjshir Valley.

Its fighters, many in military camouflage fatigues, patrol the area in US-made Humvees and technicals – pickup trucks with machine guns mounted on the back.

Many carry assault rifles, rocket-propelled grenades and walkie-talkies. Some pose on their vehicles against a dramatic background of snow-covered peaks in the valley, which begins about an hour north of Kabul.

“We are going to rub their faces in the ground,” said one fighter at a position in the Panjshir heights, listing past victories against the Taliban.

:snippity:

The NRF has said it is ready for battle, but it remains unclear if the force has the supplies and equipment to withstand a long siege by the Taliban
“If Taliban warlords launch an assault, they will of course face staunch resistance from us,” Ahmad Massoud, one of the NRF leaders, said in a Washington Post op-ed last week.

He is the son of the late Tajik commander Ahmad Shah Massoud, revered for turning the Panjshir Valley into an anti-Soviet and anti-Taliban bastion.

The defensive preparations are familiar for Panjshir residents who saw Massoud Senior thwart multiple Soviet assaults in the 1980s and Taliban attempts to take the area in the late 1990s.

Read it all at https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/2 ... om-taliban
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Re: Afghanistan

#144

Post by Suranis »

Ya the Panshir Valley remained out of Taliban control the last time. Not that it was a picnic to live there either.
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Re: Afghanistan

#145

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Afghanistan

#146

Post by Dave from down under »

from the link

Rep. Seth Moulton, D-Mass., and Rep. Peter Meijer, R-Mich., flew in and out on charter aircraft and were on the ground at the Kabul airport for several hours. That led officials to complain that they could be taking seats that would have otherwise gone to other Americans or Afghans fleeing the country, but the congressmen said in a joint statement that they made sure to leave on a flight with empty seats.

“As Members of Congress, we have a duty to provide oversight on the executive branch,’” the two said in their statement.

:snippity:

Meijer, an Army veteran, served in Iraq and later did humanitarian aid-related work with a nongovernmental organization in Afghanistan, helping to deliver emergency assistance to aid workers after kidnappings and targeted killings. Moulton served in the Marine Corps in Iraq.

Two officials familiar with the flight said that State Department, Defense Department and White House officials were furious about the incident because it was done without coordination with diplomats or military commanders directing the evacuation.
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Re: Afghanistan

#147

Post by Dave from down under »

Additional from the link
---------------
The two congressmen said they went into their visit wanting “to push the president to extend the August 31st deadline. After talking with commanders on the ground and seeing the situation here, it is obvious that because we started the evacuation so late, that no matter what we do, we won’t get everyone out on time, even by September 11.”
---------------

Grand standing isn't going to help..

and without Taliban agreement there can be no safe extension...

Plan accordingly!

And if that means getting an agreement for civilian flights after 31/8/21 - then so be it.
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Re: Afghanistan

#148

Post by Volkonski »



Like something out of a Rambo movie. :?
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Re: Afghanistan

#149

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Afghanistan

#150

Post by RTH10260 »

G7's cash offer to Taliban: Prime Minister promises to unlock hundreds of millions if new Afghan regime will agree to list of demands
  • PM claimed G7's 'considerable influence' could help bring the Taliban to heel
    Mr Johnson said the powers would allow Taliban access to frozen funds
    But Taliban must allow girls to be educated and prevent terrorism breeding
By DANIEL MARTIN and EMINE SINMAZ FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 22:07 BST, 24 August 2021 | UPDATED: 02:19 BST, 25 August 2021

Boris Johnson made a dramatic offer on behalf of the G7 to the Taliban last night, saying the West would unfreeze hundreds of millions of pounds in funding if the group agreed to a string of conditions.

Despite failing to secure an extension to the August 31 withdrawal deadline, the Prime Minister claimed the G7's 'considerable influence' could help bring the Taliban to heel.

Mr Johnson, who hosted an emergency virtual G7 meeting last night, said the powers would allow Afghanistan's new leaders to access frozen funds if they allowed girls to be educated, prevented the country from becoming a breeding ground for terror and cracked down on the heroin trade.

He added that the G7's 'number one condition' was 'safe passage' for those who wanted to leave beyond the end of the month when Western troops pull out.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... mands.html
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