Based on testimony from employees of OceanGate and Karl Stanley, Stockton Rush seemed to believe he was smarter and knew more about everything than anybody else. He could not listen to any suggestions from anyone else without taking those things personally. There has been testimony from at least one person, who sat in the navigation seat, next to Wendy Rush, who sat in communications seat, that she had those same tendencies. A highly experienced ROV pilot was relieved from her navigation duties by Wendy Rush for simply mentioning that she knew of software that would improve the navigation abilities. Wendy, who personally had nothing to do with the development of that system they were using, took it so personally that she immediately relieved this person from their duties. Other people described similar behavior by Stockton Rush. They simply could not take suggestions from anyone without taking it as a personal insult. If you read through the emails between Karl Stanley and Stockton Rush, Rush pretty much says this very thing, that he is personally insulted by Karl Stanley's concerns, even though Rush did not personally wind the carbon fiber.
Titan Submersible Vessel
Titan Submersible Vessel
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
--Jane Goodall
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Foggy
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Wow. I can't imagine thinking like that. I assume all experts know more than I do, but I try to be careful which so-called experts I listen to. 
But if an expert makes sense, and if she's giving me a warning, you can rely upon me to obey the warning. I promise.
But if an expert makes sense, and if she's giving me a warning, you can rely upon me to obey the warning. I promise.
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Titan Submersible Vessel
It's like a special episode of Jackass but with a horrifically tragic ending.
x5
Titan Submersible Vessel
Yeah, private company space travel gives me the same heebee jeebies. But hey, if a billionaire wants to go on a trip that might kill them, have at it.
It's just the normal hubris of mediocre white men who became rich and think that made them super smart in every field, not to be questioned.
It's just the normal hubris of mediocre white men who became rich and think that made them super smart in every field, not to be questioned.
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain
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Titan Submersible Vessel
N-A-R-C-I-S-S-I-S-M
"Mickey Mouse and I grew up together." - Ruthie Tompson, Disney animation checker and scene planner and one of the first women to become a member of the International Photographers Union in 1952.
Titan Submersible Vessel
Current witness said when you are in a submersible you really don't want it turn into a convertible. He's talking so fast I can barely keep up. I'll write about it later. Mr Kemper from Kemper Engineering. He was hired to help analyze what and why this happened. He's quite impressive.
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
--Jane Goodall
--Jane Goodall
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Sam the Centipede
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Titan Submersible Vessel
I'm not interested enough in the details of this issue to actually watch the hearings or read long articles but I really appreciate this intriguing reportage, color and commentary, many thanks Fogteam! 
And I'm sure I'm not there only person musring "surely Rush and Musk must be related?" 
And I'm sure I'm not there only person musring "surely Rush and Musk must be related?" Titan Submersible Vessel
The NTSB has uploaded some of their factual reports regarding the Titan submersible. They can be downloaded from the following link, just scroll down and click the VIEW link to download. Make sure to download both of the materials factual reports, lots and lots of photos of wreckage as found in place and labelled so you know what you are looking at.
The top two files are the reports of the sub and the rest are related to weather and currents.
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/?NTSBNumber=DCA23FM036
The top two files are the reports of the sub and the rest are related to weather and currents.
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/?NTSBNumber=DCA23FM036
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
--Jane Goodall
--Jane Goodall
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pipistrelle
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Titan Submersible Vessel
There's more care and time taken over this investigation than there was in the engineering, construction and operation of the Titan.RVInit wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:07 pm The NTSB has uploaded some of their factual reports regarding the Titan submersible. They can be downloaded from the following link, just scroll down and click the VIEW link to download. Make sure to download both of the materials factual reports, lots and lots of photos of wreckage as found in place and labelled so you know what you are looking at.
The top two files are the reports of the sub and the rest are related to weather and currents.
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/?NTSBNumber=DCA23FM036
Titan Submersible Vessel
That is for sure. What is really interesting to me is how many outside experts they are bringing in, like Dr Kemper from Kemper Engineering. Likely that is because of the construction of a submersible using innovative gobsmacking stupid material choice.pipistrelle wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:20 pmThere's more care and time taken over this investigation than there was in the engineering, construction and operation of the Titan.RVInit wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:07 pm The NTSB has uploaded some of their factual reports regarding the Titan submersible. They can be downloaded from the following link, just scroll down and click the VIEW link to download. Make sure to download both of the materials factual reports, lots and lots of photos of wreckage as found in place and labelled so you know what you are looking at.
The top two files are the reports of the sub and the rest are related to weather and currents.
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/?NTSBNumber=DCA23FM036
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
--Jane Goodall
--Jane Goodall
Titan Submersible Vessel
The hearing started quite late today and then started with a bang. An unscheduled witness, ex-employee of OceanGate is testifying.
He had a lunch meeting with Stockton Rush after he became concerned about things, and one of the remarks Rush made was "I will just buy a Congress member".
Holy shit.
I will write up more of his testimony in a bit, but thought that might be interesting in the meantime.
He had a lunch meeting with Stockton Rush after he became concerned about things, and one of the remarks Rush made was "I will just buy a Congress member".
Holy shit.
I will write up more of his testimony in a bit, but thought that might be interesting in the meantime.
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
--Jane Goodall
--Jane Goodall
Titan Submersible Vessel
Here is the gist of the first witness, Mr Matthew McCoy, former Operations Technician with OceanGate.
Member of the Coast Guard for a number of years, experience with mechanics, worked for OceanGate for a short period of time in the Operations department. He is currently employed in the private sector and is still on reserve status in the Coast Guard.
When the first Cyclops (Titan) hull arrived, many of the employees were asking questions about why it came back with a 5 inch thick hull instead of the 7 inches they were expecting. Management at OceanGate were unwilling to answer questions, danced around the subject whenever problems or questions were brought up.
Lochridge, who was supposed to be the Director of Operations, had been put under supervision of Scott Griffith in the Operations department (probably because he often raised questions and issues and this took him out of the loop as far as management meetings and such).
Mr MeCoy indicated there was nobody in the entire company, with the exception of David Lochridge, who had any experience whatsoever with submersibles.
When he interviewed with the company he was told the company was designing and building the Cyclops (the original name for the Titan) in conjunction with Boeing, the University of WA Applied Physics Lab, and NASA. Shortly after he began working there he became aware that the company had cut ties with all of them and were doing all the engineering in house. The Director of Engineering at the time, Tony Nissen, was not a PE and they did not employ a PE or consult with any PE's as far as McCoy is aware.
He did not have confidence that OceanGate engineering department was capable of designing and building a dee sea vessel, and the company culture was problematic. Nobody was allowed to bring up any issues, if he asked questions of his supervisor, he was dismissed or given unsatisfactory answers.
The company was secretive about the fact that the Mission Specialists were paying for the trip, McCoy, along with his coworkers were led to believe those peoople were involved in scientific studies.
One of the MIssion Specialists, Renata Rojas, accidentally let the cat out of the bag about how much she paid to go on the various submersibles. Rojas testified last week, she is still all in on Stockton Rush's propaganda, she begged the board to make sure people know that innovation is important and that we need to continue allowing people like her to pay money to go on deep sea trips. She, and others, testified that she was always coming to Everett, WA to volunteer and basically be a part time unpaid employee. And she paid to go on several of the different dives aside from going on the Titan.
McCoy told his supervisor that it's against the law for them to be operating without the proper type of certification for paid passenger trips. Scott Griffith made arrangements for himself, Stockton Rush, and McCoy to have lunch. Stockton Rush gave his usual spiel about innovation, regulations are getting in the way of innovation. He told McCoy he was going to flag the vessel in the Bahamas and operate out of Canada, so he would be outside of the jurisdiction of the Coast Guard. At some point Rush told McCoy that he will just "buy a Congressman if I have to". He was asked if this was an exact quote and McCoy responded this is exactly what Stockton Rush had said to him and that he would remember those exact words for the rest of his life. He was very disturbed by this comment.
McCoy gave his notice the next day, telling them as a member of the Coast Guard Reserves he felt he woudl be compromised working for a company that appears to be skirting laws, he was uncomfortable with that. He was uncomfortable with safety issues as well, not just skirting the law.
Member of the Coast Guard for a number of years, experience with mechanics, worked for OceanGate for a short period of time in the Operations department. He is currently employed in the private sector and is still on reserve status in the Coast Guard.
When the first Cyclops (Titan) hull arrived, many of the employees were asking questions about why it came back with a 5 inch thick hull instead of the 7 inches they were expecting. Management at OceanGate were unwilling to answer questions, danced around the subject whenever problems or questions were brought up.
Lochridge, who was supposed to be the Director of Operations, had been put under supervision of Scott Griffith in the Operations department (probably because he often raised questions and issues and this took him out of the loop as far as management meetings and such).
Mr MeCoy indicated there was nobody in the entire company, with the exception of David Lochridge, who had any experience whatsoever with submersibles.
When he interviewed with the company he was told the company was designing and building the Cyclops (the original name for the Titan) in conjunction with Boeing, the University of WA Applied Physics Lab, and NASA. Shortly after he began working there he became aware that the company had cut ties with all of them and were doing all the engineering in house. The Director of Engineering at the time, Tony Nissen, was not a PE and they did not employ a PE or consult with any PE's as far as McCoy is aware.
He did not have confidence that OceanGate engineering department was capable of designing and building a dee sea vessel, and the company culture was problematic. Nobody was allowed to bring up any issues, if he asked questions of his supervisor, he was dismissed or given unsatisfactory answers.
The company was secretive about the fact that the Mission Specialists were paying for the trip, McCoy, along with his coworkers were led to believe those peoople were involved in scientific studies.
One of the MIssion Specialists, Renata Rojas, accidentally let the cat out of the bag about how much she paid to go on the various submersibles. Rojas testified last week, she is still all in on Stockton Rush's propaganda, she begged the board to make sure people know that innovation is important and that we need to continue allowing people like her to pay money to go on deep sea trips. She, and others, testified that she was always coming to Everett, WA to volunteer and basically be a part time unpaid employee. And she paid to go on several of the different dives aside from going on the Titan.
McCoy told his supervisor that it's against the law for them to be operating without the proper type of certification for paid passenger trips. Scott Griffith made arrangements for himself, Stockton Rush, and McCoy to have lunch. Stockton Rush gave his usual spiel about innovation, regulations are getting in the way of innovation. He told McCoy he was going to flag the vessel in the Bahamas and operate out of Canada, so he would be outside of the jurisdiction of the Coast Guard. At some point Rush told McCoy that he will just "buy a Congressman if I have to". He was asked if this was an exact quote and McCoy responded this is exactly what Stockton Rush had said to him and that he would remember those exact words for the rest of his life. He was very disturbed by this comment.
McCoy gave his notice the next day, telling them as a member of the Coast Guard Reserves he felt he woudl be compromised working for a company that appears to be skirting laws, he was uncomfortable with that. He was uncomfortable with safety issues as well, not just skirting the law.
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
--Jane Goodall
--Jane Goodall
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Foggy
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Titan Submersible Vessel
... and he was successful. Stockton Rush is now clearly outside the jurisdiction of the Coast Guard, and he always will be. I love happy endings silver linings.He told McCoy he was going to flag the vessel in the Bahamas and operate out of Canada, so he would be outside of the jurisdiction of the Coast Guard.
I'm Foggy and I forget if I approved this message.
Titan Submersible Vessel
Now we are getting to the meat and potatoes of the search and rescue operation. Wow. I am really impressed. Here is the first part of Capt Frederick's testimony: I apologize for typos, I'm typing as he's talking. I'm not the best typist as most of you probably already suspect.
-------------------------------------------------------
Captain Jamie Frederick, U.S. Coast Guard Sector Boston
When the call came in, they were an "overdue vessel". A Quick Response Card was put in. Two were put in for this case - Sub serach and rescue, and overdue
Complex for many reasons
1. multi dimensional search
2. distance offshore
3. 1st looked for air assets, there was an air craft available right away, the crew was ready, surface search started immediately
4. reached out to higher area so they could query the Navy. Navy did not have resources in the area
5. One thing we found on the checklist for a sub search, there is an org under the International arena, we reached out to them, they have 24/7
5. Global broadcast was put out for all vessels at sea that had sub surface capability
6. Deep Energy responded and set out to area. On scene within 34 hours
6. By Monday morning had P3 aircraft (sonar capability), Canadian aircraft
7. Flew nose to tail from Monday evening to Thursday
8. Coast Guard cutter was 3 to 4 days away in Greenland
From MOnday, Tues, Wednesday continued air searches. Deep Energy arrived Tues AM and commenced ROV operations (limited to 3000 meters). One of the most basic principles is to go to last known position. Deep Energy tried to push ROV to last known position and destroyed their ROV.
From that point we had no ability to put anything down as far as last known postion. Throughout we were putting together a team of experts - Unified Command - world's best experts, US Navy (various commands), US Navy dive and rescue operations, both Pacific and Atlantic, submariners from Royal Navy, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute - sent subject matter expert.
OceanGate was operating without any plan for rescue, so we had to create the entire plan. We had a 6000 m ROV by Thursday, which is unprecendented for quick response according to sub rexcue experts, considering there was initially no plan at all from OceanGate, starting from scratch.
The globe is divided into regions according to Internatinal law, Titanic falls within Boston area for responsibility for rescue. Those predetermined areas are critical for no delay. Canadians were initially notified and they immeidately notified Boston. Close relationships are in place and were crucial to getting assets deployed immediately.
Challenging for many reasons. Limited to 3000 m ROV's. Searching all over for 6000m ROV, which finally arrived on Thursday.
OceanGate and Polar Prince. Polar Prince served as Command Center because it was on scene and the only option. Eyes on scene with communication capability, satellite phones, etc. There was no Coast Guard cutter until Wednesday when Command Center changed to the cutter. Transfer takes time, plans and communication have to be transferred in a way as to not lose any progress or time.
They believed the Titan had enough O2 for crew to stay alive for a few days. They were getting information that the Titan could have been in the water column as opposed to on the bottom. As early as Monday, receiving information from the aircraft that they were detecting undersea noises from sonar.
In this case never got to the point of having a discussion of suspension of operations because they were supposed to have had enough life support on board for several days and the remains of the vehicle were discovered on Thursday.
In this case we had a lot of information coming in. Capt had never been involved in a search and rescue of a submarine or submersible. This is the first time he used the sub surface QRE. It's not uncommon to oversea an operation where they don't have subject matter expertise because they bring in SME's where necessary - like Deep Water Horizon event, we did not have SME, but we bring in experts, like to cap an oil well head. This is important to note, the USCG brings the action, leadership, competency to bring in resources.
The whole power of this system is that the USCG has the ability to lead the operation and bring in experts wherever necessary.
We heard testimony that USCG did not bring in locally available ROV's. Captain explains that we needed a 6000 m ROV. We were able to bring in a lesser ROV, just in case, since we couldn't get the 6000 prior to Thursday. OceanGate had reached out to Pelagic, and they started making preparations to bring the 6000 m ROV, there was prep and workup time required, they are not just ready at the drop of a hat. They had the ROV, the expertise, but not the ability to move all the equipment. the Unified Command was able to get heavy equipment in place and 3 C-17's to bring the ROV and immense amount of equipment to the scene. Had to be moved to St Johns, trucked from airport to seaport and then put on the Horizon Arctic which was a vessel of opportunity (happened to be close and available).
Brackets and welding had to be done to transport the ROV onto the Horizon Arctic. (Wow, I had no idea of all the logistics of it, this is super interesting)
Discovered the debris field on Thursday.
Woods Hole Oceanographic had done extensive mapping of the area around the Titanic and they did an estimate of where the debris field might be, and the ROV discovered it within minutes of arriving at the bottom with this information. (Wow)
-------------------------------------------------------
Captain Jamie Frederick, U.S. Coast Guard Sector Boston
When the call came in, they were an "overdue vessel". A Quick Response Card was put in. Two were put in for this case - Sub serach and rescue, and overdue
Complex for many reasons
1. multi dimensional search
2. distance offshore
3. 1st looked for air assets, there was an air craft available right away, the crew was ready, surface search started immediately
4. reached out to higher area so they could query the Navy. Navy did not have resources in the area
5. One thing we found on the checklist for a sub search, there is an org under the International arena, we reached out to them, they have 24/7
5. Global broadcast was put out for all vessels at sea that had sub surface capability
6. Deep Energy responded and set out to area. On scene within 34 hours
6. By Monday morning had P3 aircraft (sonar capability), Canadian aircraft
7. Flew nose to tail from Monday evening to Thursday
8. Coast Guard cutter was 3 to 4 days away in Greenland
From MOnday, Tues, Wednesday continued air searches. Deep Energy arrived Tues AM and commenced ROV operations (limited to 3000 meters). One of the most basic principles is to go to last known position. Deep Energy tried to push ROV to last known position and destroyed their ROV.
From that point we had no ability to put anything down as far as last known postion. Throughout we were putting together a team of experts - Unified Command - world's best experts, US Navy (various commands), US Navy dive and rescue operations, both Pacific and Atlantic, submariners from Royal Navy, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute - sent subject matter expert.
OceanGate was operating without any plan for rescue, so we had to create the entire plan. We had a 6000 m ROV by Thursday, which is unprecendented for quick response according to sub rexcue experts, considering there was initially no plan at all from OceanGate, starting from scratch.
The globe is divided into regions according to Internatinal law, Titanic falls within Boston area for responsibility for rescue. Those predetermined areas are critical for no delay. Canadians were initially notified and they immeidately notified Boston. Close relationships are in place and were crucial to getting assets deployed immediately.
Challenging for many reasons. Limited to 3000 m ROV's. Searching all over for 6000m ROV, which finally arrived on Thursday.
OceanGate and Polar Prince. Polar Prince served as Command Center because it was on scene and the only option. Eyes on scene with communication capability, satellite phones, etc. There was no Coast Guard cutter until Wednesday when Command Center changed to the cutter. Transfer takes time, plans and communication have to be transferred in a way as to not lose any progress or time.
They believed the Titan had enough O2 for crew to stay alive for a few days. They were getting information that the Titan could have been in the water column as opposed to on the bottom. As early as Monday, receiving information from the aircraft that they were detecting undersea noises from sonar.
In this case never got to the point of having a discussion of suspension of operations because they were supposed to have had enough life support on board for several days and the remains of the vehicle were discovered on Thursday.
In this case we had a lot of information coming in. Capt had never been involved in a search and rescue of a submarine or submersible. This is the first time he used the sub surface QRE. It's not uncommon to oversea an operation where they don't have subject matter expertise because they bring in SME's where necessary - like Deep Water Horizon event, we did not have SME, but we bring in experts, like to cap an oil well head. This is important to note, the USCG brings the action, leadership, competency to bring in resources.
The whole power of this system is that the USCG has the ability to lead the operation and bring in experts wherever necessary.
We heard testimony that USCG did not bring in locally available ROV's. Captain explains that we needed a 6000 m ROV. We were able to bring in a lesser ROV, just in case, since we couldn't get the 6000 prior to Thursday. OceanGate had reached out to Pelagic, and they started making preparations to bring the 6000 m ROV, there was prep and workup time required, they are not just ready at the drop of a hat. They had the ROV, the expertise, but not the ability to move all the equipment. the Unified Command was able to get heavy equipment in place and 3 C-17's to bring the ROV and immense amount of equipment to the scene. Had to be moved to St Johns, trucked from airport to seaport and then put on the Horizon Arctic which was a vessel of opportunity (happened to be close and available).
Brackets and welding had to be done to transport the ROV onto the Horizon Arctic. (Wow, I had no idea of all the logistics of it, this is super interesting)
Discovered the debris field on Thursday.
Woods Hole Oceanographic had done extensive mapping of the area around the Titanic and they did an estimate of where the debris field might be, and the ROV discovered it within minutes of arriving at the bottom with this information. (Wow)
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
--Jane Goodall
--Jane Goodall
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Slim Cognito
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Titan Submersible Vessel
First, let me say thank you, RV, we are not worthy.
Second, I can't get past no plan of rescue. Those words are incomprehensible to me.
Second, I can't get past no plan of rescue. Those words are incomprehensible to me.
x5-
roadscholar
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Titan Submersible Vessel
Another observation pointing at Rush's pathological hubris:
He crowed about the sonic sensors that would alert them to issues with the carbon-fibre hull.
It is a matter of record that they picked up tons of noises, including a few that passengers likened to a gunshot.
And Rush apparently did nothing in response, except talk about how well his damn acoustic system was working. Didn't suspend dives. Didn't consider making a new hull. Nothing.
He crowed about the sonic sensors that would alert them to issues with the carbon-fibre hull.
It is a matter of record that they picked up tons of noises, including a few that passengers likened to a gunshot.
And Rush apparently did nothing in response, except talk about how well his damn acoustic system was working. Didn't suspend dives. Didn't consider making a new hull. Nothing.
The bitterest truth is more wholesome than the sweetest lie.
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Titan Submersible Vessel
Doubtful that his brain was able to process that final loud boom, too.roadscholar wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:38 am Another observation pointing at Rush's pathological hubris:
He crowed about the sonic sensors that would alert them to issues with the carbon-fibre hull.
It is a matter of record that they picked up tons of noises, including a few that passengers likened to a gunshot.
And Rush apparently did nothing in response, except talk about how well his damn acoustic system was working. Didn't suspend dives. Didn't consider making a new hull. Nothing.
Off Topic
Nice to see that helmet in your avatar.
Largo al factotum.
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roadscholar
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Titan Submersible Vessel
Note for Foggy: I don't seem to be able to delete this duplicate post. Am I just a dope?
The bitterest truth is more wholesome than the sweetest lie.
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roadscholar
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Titan Submersible Vessel
roadscholar wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:47 amOff TopicThank you. That's a newer Davida pudding-bowl helmet, in no way DOT approved. Plus 1950's Russian tank goggles. I've been riding that 1957 R69 for ten years with a 1957 MD motorcycle license plate, unmolested by the authorities.
The bitterest truth is more wholesome than the sweetest lie.
Titan Submersible Vessel
Command Center staff training - formal training, on the job training, extensive qualifications and tasks, it takes years to qualify for search and rescue.
These events don't happen with high level of frequency. Personnel availability - not really a shortage, but this is a large scale response so the local resources get overwhelmed, but we bring in additional help starting right away and build around the existing command structure.
There is always a qualified commander on duty 24/7. This has to be seaparated from every day operations so it doesn't impact normal operations.
OceanGate never presented any type of plan, they just expected USCG to come up with everything. No plan at all was presented by OceanGate.
On Wednesday the Navy was able to determine that the reporting of sounds was inaccurate in many respects
OceanGate never reported to the rescue command that they had heard any kind of noise at the time communications were lost.
He directed air, surface, and sub surface operations
He will provide a detailed list of all SME's. OceanGate were part of the unified command. Their representative was Kyle Bingham, who was on the Polar Prince. (I bet Wendy Rush was hiding in the bathroom and probably told Kyle do not mention my name or that I'm anywhere near. On paper she was in charge of the OceanGate Foundation, which was supposed to be the organizatin that "raised the money for the scientific operations". But we now know that the money came from the passengers. I am very interested to find out if the OceanGate Foundation really did raise any money at all or if it was just a sham on paper. Wendy was involved in all the operations and she was topside on the ship in charge of communications for every dive. )
USCG Boston had not been aware that any submersible carrying passengers was involved in any operations at the Titanic wreck site.
It would have been helpful if USCG had been aware of these operations.
Thursday morning is when we knew it was no longer search and rescue. As debris was discovered it became clear that there was a total loss. Capt Frederick personally did the family notification of the loss.
Hindsight is 20/20 it is clear that USCG rescue operations did not have a fraction of the inforatmion regarding the vessel they were looking for. Attendance at this hearing makes it clear that they were not apprised of information regarding OceanGate's operations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
These events don't happen with high level of frequency. Personnel availability - not really a shortage, but this is a large scale response so the local resources get overwhelmed, but we bring in additional help starting right away and build around the existing command structure.
There is always a qualified commander on duty 24/7. This has to be seaparated from every day operations so it doesn't impact normal operations.
OceanGate never presented any type of plan, they just expected USCG to come up with everything. No plan at all was presented by OceanGate.
On Wednesday the Navy was able to determine that the reporting of sounds was inaccurate in many respects
OceanGate never reported to the rescue command that they had heard any kind of noise at the time communications were lost.
He directed air, surface, and sub surface operations
He will provide a detailed list of all SME's. OceanGate were part of the unified command. Their representative was Kyle Bingham, who was on the Polar Prince. (I bet Wendy Rush was hiding in the bathroom and probably told Kyle do not mention my name or that I'm anywhere near. On paper she was in charge of the OceanGate Foundation, which was supposed to be the organizatin that "raised the money for the scientific operations". But we now know that the money came from the passengers. I am very interested to find out if the OceanGate Foundation really did raise any money at all or if it was just a sham on paper. Wendy was involved in all the operations and she was topside on the ship in charge of communications for every dive. )
USCG Boston had not been aware that any submersible carrying passengers was involved in any operations at the Titanic wreck site.
It would have been helpful if USCG had been aware of these operations.
Thursday morning is when we knew it was no longer search and rescue. As debris was discovered it became clear that there was a total loss. Capt Frederick personally did the family notification of the loss.
Hindsight is 20/20 it is clear that USCG rescue operations did not have a fraction of the inforatmion regarding the vessel they were looking for. Attendance at this hearing makes it clear that they were not apprised of information regarding OceanGate's operations.
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"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
--Jane Goodall
--Jane Goodall
Titan Submersible Vessel
Capt Frederick, continued
One of the board members is now reading from an interview with the Master of the Polar Prince. This question came up with this witness, so he wanted to read this into the record:
Question: Did you or your crew members hear or see anything after communications were lost with the Titan the could have indicated that the submersible imploded?
Answer: With the benefit of hindsight, I now believe I felt the Polar Prince shudder, at around the time of comminications were reportedly lost, but at the time we thought nothing of it...it was slight.
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Asking Capt Frederick if this was identified at the time would it have changed the search and rescue posture? Yes, it seems unconsciounable that it was not shared. I don't want to speculate on exactly how it would have changed things, but it seems like something that would have been helpful.
How did you handle the data received from the US Navy? On Monday 19th made aware that an anomaly was detected. At the time it was classified, as a military officer and member of the intelligence community I cannot share that information. It was one piece of data, not definitive, Navy couldn't tell if it was conclusive. We were receiving conflicting evidence of underwater sounds at the same time. Nobody knew what the answer was at that point in time, so we couldn't act on any of it.
If a slight disturbance on the Polar Prince had been reported it would have changed the equation and discussions, but I can't say right now if it would have changed our approach to search and rescue.
The NTSB discovered that OceanGate had a list of ROV's and resources. Was that ever shared with USCG search and resue command? No, OceanGate id not provide any of that to the rescue effort. (holy Shit!)
It is my understanding that Pelagic was made aware on the evening of the 18th, directly by OceanGate, working around the USCG rescue command and not informing them ahead of time they were doing that.
USCG does not monitor dive sites like Andrea Doria or Titanic.
This case points out that as the world is changing, eco-tourism, space travel, we may find we are asked to respond without appropriate assets. No one agency, not even a single country, has all the required assets. The USCG has experience necessary to integrate and lead assets.
Was there a team of people to reach out to families? Myself and another Captain. Two separate times there were presumed human remains found, so notification was done both times after DNA verification.
Next of kin notification is always difficult, in this case they were from all over the world. It's important to get the information to the families before anything could get out to the press. Families had to have correct expectations.
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Are there different classes of ROVs. I'm not an expert, but yes, they are listed by there depth capabilities. Woods Hole Oceanographic was SME for ROV.
Pelagic developed a plan to bring up the pressure vessel if it had been intact. They were confident they would be able to effect a rescue if it had been possible. Fabricating the brackets to hold the ROV usually takes days and they did it in hours.
Does the USCG depend on the vessel operator for information as to survival time underwater? Yes
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OceanGate counsel wants a break before asking questions.
No questions
One of the board members is now reading from an interview with the Master of the Polar Prince. This question came up with this witness, so he wanted to read this into the record:
Question: Did you or your crew members hear or see anything after communications were lost with the Titan the could have indicated that the submersible imploded?
Answer: With the benefit of hindsight, I now believe I felt the Polar Prince shudder, at around the time of comminications were reportedly lost, but at the time we thought nothing of it...it was slight.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Asking Capt Frederick if this was identified at the time would it have changed the search and rescue posture? Yes, it seems unconsciounable that it was not shared. I don't want to speculate on exactly how it would have changed things, but it seems like something that would have been helpful.
How did you handle the data received from the US Navy? On Monday 19th made aware that an anomaly was detected. At the time it was classified, as a military officer and member of the intelligence community I cannot share that information. It was one piece of data, not definitive, Navy couldn't tell if it was conclusive. We were receiving conflicting evidence of underwater sounds at the same time. Nobody knew what the answer was at that point in time, so we couldn't act on any of it.
If a slight disturbance on the Polar Prince had been reported it would have changed the equation and discussions, but I can't say right now if it would have changed our approach to search and rescue.
The NTSB discovered that OceanGate had a list of ROV's and resources. Was that ever shared with USCG search and resue command? No, OceanGate id not provide any of that to the rescue effort. (holy Shit!)
It is my understanding that Pelagic was made aware on the evening of the 18th, directly by OceanGate, working around the USCG rescue command and not informing them ahead of time they were doing that.
USCG does not monitor dive sites like Andrea Doria or Titanic.
This case points out that as the world is changing, eco-tourism, space travel, we may find we are asked to respond without appropriate assets. No one agency, not even a single country, has all the required assets. The USCG has experience necessary to integrate and lead assets.
Was there a team of people to reach out to families? Myself and another Captain. Two separate times there were presumed human remains found, so notification was done both times after DNA verification.
Next of kin notification is always difficult, in this case they were from all over the world. It's important to get the information to the families before anything could get out to the press. Families had to have correct expectations.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there different classes of ROVs. I'm not an expert, but yes, they are listed by there depth capabilities. Woods Hole Oceanographic was SME for ROV.
Pelagic developed a plan to bring up the pressure vessel if it had been intact. They were confident they would be able to effect a rescue if it had been possible. Fabricating the brackets to hold the ROV usually takes days and they did it in hours.
Does the USCG depend on the vessel operator for information as to survival time underwater? Yes
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OceanGate counsel wants a break before asking questions.
No questions
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
--Jane Goodall
--Jane Goodall
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zekeb
- Posts: 1096
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- Occupation: Stable genius. One who tosses horseshit with a pitchfork and never misses the spreader.
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Titan Submersible Vessel
roadscholar wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:49 amroadscholar wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:47 amOff TopicThank you. That's a newer Davida pudding-bowl helmet, in no way DOT approved. Plus 1950's Russian tank goggles. I've been riding that 1957 R69 for ten years with a 1957 MD motorcycle license plate, unmolested by the authorities.
Off Topic
My brother wasn't molested by authorities either. He was riding sans-helmet. I have to travel to Wisconsin next week to close his affairs.
The coroner spoke with me over the phone and I cringed when I heard her description of the damage. The Harley only has a little bit of road rash.
The coroner spoke with me over the phone and I cringed when I heard her description of the damage. The Harley only has a little bit of road rash.
Largo al factotum.
Titan Submersible Vessel
There's mountain climb somewhere* that requires permits, and one of the conditions of the permit is that the climbing group must arrange for a stand-by rescue team to be available on short notice.
Just saying ...
_________
* I can't remember where; I thought it might be Denali in Alaska, but I couldn't find such a requirement on the NPS page about permits for climbing on Denali.
Just saying ...
_________
* I can't remember where; I thought it might be Denali in Alaska, but I couldn't find such a requirement on the NPS page about permits for climbing on Denali.
zekeb wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 1:58 pmOff TopicMy brother wasn't molested by authorities either. He was riding sans-helmet. I have to travel to Wisconsin next week to close his affairs.
The coroner spoke with me over the phone and I cringed when I heard her description of the damage. The Harley only has a little bit of road rash.
Off Topic
Sorry about your brother, Zeke.
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Foggy
- Dick Tater
- Posts: 11098
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:45 am
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- Verified: grumpy ol' geezer
Titan Submersible Vessel
No, you can only delete a post until there's another post after it. If you have a duplicate, try deleting the second one (and hope nobody puts up a new post while you do it).roadscholar wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:47 amNote for Foggy: I don't seem to be able to delete this duplicate post. Am I just a dope?
I hope I explained that adequately, 'cuz I gotta leave the house.
I'm Foggy and I forget if I approved this message.