After yesterday, I don't think it matters anymore. Trump and his enablers will cook up some scheme to get himself declared president. Either by winning the election, by "winning" the election, or going tO the SCOTUS with all his bogus claims that worked well enough after 2020.
trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
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trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
- Ben-Prime
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trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
I mean, he's not president NOW, right? So acts he takes before becoming President are in no way official acts.Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:44 pmNo, the violence will be well prior to the election results being known. Last time, they engaged in various protests at vote tabulation facilities, but otherwise remained relatively peaceful about it. This time, they will breach those facilities, compromise security of the tabulation, and thus provide grounds for calling the results into question.
They're not going to wait around for January 6.
We're going to have good old-fashioned election violence.
But the sunshine aye shall light the sky,
As round and round we run;
And the truth shall ever come uppermost,
And justice shall be done.
- Charles Mackay, "Eternal Justice"
As round and round we run;
And the truth shall ever come uppermost,
And justice shall be done.
- Charles Mackay, "Eternal Justice"
trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
I'm waiting for the motion to vacate the E Jean Carroll judgments, since he's now got his immunity.
trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
I am seriously scared
if dotard wins or steals the election I don't know what I will do
![Can't Look :cantlook:](./images/smilies/idontwanttosee.gif)
if dotard wins or steals the election I don't know what I will do
![Crying :crying:](./images/smilies/crying.gif)
![Can't Look :cantlook:](./images/smilies/idontwanttosee.gif)
- raison de arizona
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trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
Acyn @Acyn wrote: Trump: If you have ratings, you can be the meanest, most horrible human being in the world. There's only one thing that matters. Ratings. You can be evil, horrible, cruel, or elegant. There's only one thing that matters and that's ratings…
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
I'm getting a plan together, and it involves becoming a digital nomad. Lots of countries have this kind of visa now (thank you COVID). Fortunately i have a stable job that lets me do that.
trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
So I lived in Egypt for 17 years. The western world, especially the US, considers Egypt a republic, and a democracy, but yeah, not really. The military has run the country for decades (mostly); they are a sort of merchant class (think Mubarak) and they keep the politcal class in line. They have elections for state (governorate) and national elections, but for president, there is only one name on the ballot.
The gov't is secular (sort of). IMO More secular that the US is right now. Their constitution is full of liberal views (gender equality, freedom of religion, etc.) which are not really available to the lower classes, but get you a pretty good life if you're middle class or rich. Most women have a hell of a time trying to own property--the poor women have no chance, must have a male relative to sign for them. The Coptic churches are regularly vandalized, along with their priceless treasures dating back to Pharaonic times. Birth control is free. Education is free (to a point--it's also terrible). Jobs are guaranteed (but don't expect to get paid more than egg money). A lot of this reflects Egypt's roots in socialism. Graft is the preferred way to get anything done, or to run a business, because no one has any money otherwise (see above). It's more classist than racist, but either way, you stay in your lane,.
The military rulers routinely jail their opponents, particularly the violent ones, along with their families, more or less forever. So that keeps the streets safe for tourism, the number one economic sector.
The poor people are afraid of the gov't, and of the police--not the guys on the street corners, who are imports from Aswan doing their military service, and are usually asleep, but the "other" police. The smart ones with all the power you don't want to cross.
It's a sort of run of the mill authoritarian system. You're free to do a lot, but not everything. The idea of a political party having a platform and getting elected to implement is is laughable. Society is chaotic and horrifying and wonderful by turns. If you don't like the rules, break them, but break them in private. FTR, there is no comparison with places like North Korea and Afghanistan. Egypt breathes and thrives. I thrived in Egypt,
My point is, you can live in an autocracy and do just fine. The chasm between what the ideals are and what is actually happening is wide, but everyone is aware of that and has a healthy cynicism and scorn. The leaders lie on a massive scale, but no one bothers to listen.
This is what we have in the USA now, IMO. Except the gross lying is still actively annoying. I think when we get to the population just accepting the lies and paying no homage to the Constitution, because it doesn't mean anything, there will be no going back.
The gov't is secular (sort of). IMO More secular that the US is right now. Their constitution is full of liberal views (gender equality, freedom of religion, etc.) which are not really available to the lower classes, but get you a pretty good life if you're middle class or rich. Most women have a hell of a time trying to own property--the poor women have no chance, must have a male relative to sign for them. The Coptic churches are regularly vandalized, along with their priceless treasures dating back to Pharaonic times. Birth control is free. Education is free (to a point--it's also terrible). Jobs are guaranteed (but don't expect to get paid more than egg money). A lot of this reflects Egypt's roots in socialism. Graft is the preferred way to get anything done, or to run a business, because no one has any money otherwise (see above). It's more classist than racist, but either way, you stay in your lane,.
The military rulers routinely jail their opponents, particularly the violent ones, along with their families, more or less forever. So that keeps the streets safe for tourism, the number one economic sector.
The poor people are afraid of the gov't, and of the police--not the guys on the street corners, who are imports from Aswan doing their military service, and are usually asleep, but the "other" police. The smart ones with all the power you don't want to cross.
It's a sort of run of the mill authoritarian system. You're free to do a lot, but not everything. The idea of a political party having a platform and getting elected to implement is is laughable. Society is chaotic and horrifying and wonderful by turns. If you don't like the rules, break them, but break them in private. FTR, there is no comparison with places like North Korea and Afghanistan. Egypt breathes and thrives. I thrived in Egypt,
My point is, you can live in an autocracy and do just fine. The chasm between what the ideals are and what is actually happening is wide, but everyone is aware of that and has a healthy cynicism and scorn. The leaders lie on a massive scale, but no one bothers to listen.
This is what we have in the USA now, IMO. Except the gross lying is still actively annoying. I think when we get to the population just accepting the lies and paying no homage to the Constitution, because it doesn't mean anything, there will be no going back.
- Frater I*I
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trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
First thanks for you insight that you provided...
![Thumbs Up :thumbsup:](./images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Second, know this, there is myself and many others, vets and civilians, who will not accept fascism and we will fight, if it takes Civil War 2.0 to get our country back on track than so be it, the Tree of Liberty and all....
Lesson one for the Reich Wingers...No one gets to be warlord of my neighborhood but me....
"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see, He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"
Trent Reznor
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"
Trent Reznor
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trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)
Portia, that's simultaneously encouraging and discouraging. Encouraging, because we as Americans are conditioned to believe living in a "non-free country" is unthinkable, when it can be manageable sometimes. Discouraging because Trumpism undermines long-running democratic norms, in ways that will be hard to come back from.
My hope is that America roundly rejects Trumpism this fall, so much that will be impossible to play the 'rigged elections' card. Which I think we will. Trump and his enablers are a cardboard cutout of everything ordinary Americans hate: trust fund brat, obnoxious "reality TV" personality, corrupt, well-connected, lawsuit-happy, self-entitled, gets away with crimes, Russian apologist, North Korean apologist, religious busybodies, overt fascists, well out of line with mainstream norms, and that January 6 thing. On top of all that, the Republican Party has been overplaying its hand for years. They've been lording their 5-seat majority for two years, even as it disintegrated beneath them as good Republicans quit Congress, and their own party rebelled against them. At the presidential level, 2020 wasn't an aberration: 2016 was the aberration. Hilary Clinton was a historically unlikeable candidate, had 20 years of Fox News agitprop in place, and won the popular vote anyway! Joe Biden may be flawed in his old age, but he isn't overseeing particularly bad times, isn't unlikeable, and certainly isn't evil. Donald Trump is evil. And he's more than happy to announce it to anyone who wants to hear.
So I'm not worried about 9,000 undecided voters in Wisconsin, or whatever the crap the professional overthinkers have decided will be important this fall. If Trump's mere behavior (which includes insulting the city of Milwaukee) hasn't turned off 9,000 Wisconsinites by now, then this nation deserves whatever happens to it as a result. I think Trump and the GOP are shedding votes all over the place, but don't know it yet. There are tons of YouTube videos from people who voted for Trump in the past but won't do so again. There are military-against-Trump, GOP-against-Trump, and other movements. There's no such evidence of Democratic voters turning on Biden, at least not to the extent that they won't vote for him given the alternative. The RFK Jr. campaign is circling the drain, and it will take more votes from Trump then Biden anyway, because Fox News promotes RFK far more than anyone else does. The GOP has been losing in every other election since then. Remember the "red wave" we were supposed to get in 2022?
The difficulty with far-right governments is keeping them out of office in the first place. But once they get in office, you can't rid of them with mere votes. We were lucky to do so in 2020. A second Trump term will pass so many "election integrity" laws it'll be an illegal act to vote Democratic, and legal for Donald Trump to call Georgia and tell them to "find 13,000 votes" - which we all saw him ask them to do. The Supreme Court has already okayed his behavior. Which will just appall the voting public even more.
2024 should be a 1994-level rejection of one party, but it won't be. This is a more politicized and gerrymandered age, and America by its nature is far more tolerant of extreme conservatism than extreme liberalism.
My hope is that America roundly rejects Trumpism this fall, so much that will be impossible to play the 'rigged elections' card. Which I think we will. Trump and his enablers are a cardboard cutout of everything ordinary Americans hate: trust fund brat, obnoxious "reality TV" personality, corrupt, well-connected, lawsuit-happy, self-entitled, gets away with crimes, Russian apologist, North Korean apologist, religious busybodies, overt fascists, well out of line with mainstream norms, and that January 6 thing. On top of all that, the Republican Party has been overplaying its hand for years. They've been lording their 5-seat majority for two years, even as it disintegrated beneath them as good Republicans quit Congress, and their own party rebelled against them. At the presidential level, 2020 wasn't an aberration: 2016 was the aberration. Hilary Clinton was a historically unlikeable candidate, had 20 years of Fox News agitprop in place, and won the popular vote anyway! Joe Biden may be flawed in his old age, but he isn't overseeing particularly bad times, isn't unlikeable, and certainly isn't evil. Donald Trump is evil. And he's more than happy to announce it to anyone who wants to hear.
So I'm not worried about 9,000 undecided voters in Wisconsin, or whatever the crap the professional overthinkers have decided will be important this fall. If Trump's mere behavior (which includes insulting the city of Milwaukee) hasn't turned off 9,000 Wisconsinites by now, then this nation deserves whatever happens to it as a result. I think Trump and the GOP are shedding votes all over the place, but don't know it yet. There are tons of YouTube videos from people who voted for Trump in the past but won't do so again. There are military-against-Trump, GOP-against-Trump, and other movements. There's no such evidence of Democratic voters turning on Biden, at least not to the extent that they won't vote for him given the alternative. The RFK Jr. campaign is circling the drain, and it will take more votes from Trump then Biden anyway, because Fox News promotes RFK far more than anyone else does. The GOP has been losing in every other election since then. Remember the "red wave" we were supposed to get in 2022?
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
The difficulty with far-right governments is keeping them out of office in the first place. But once they get in office, you can't rid of them with mere votes. We were lucky to do so in 2020. A second Trump term will pass so many "election integrity" laws it'll be an illegal act to vote Democratic, and legal for Donald Trump to call Georgia and tell them to "find 13,000 votes" - which we all saw him ask them to do. The Supreme Court has already okayed his behavior. Which will just appall the voting public even more.
2024 should be a 1994-level rejection of one party, but it won't be. This is a more politicized and gerrymandered age, and America by its nature is far more tolerant of extreme conservatism than extreme liberalism.