Religion in schools

[Azastan]

That may be a bit of an overgeneralization. Not every school was that way. I actually don't recall even "subtle" teaching of Christianity in school (I was raised Quaker so would likely notice more Christian teaching in the school than others). Most school Christmas carols were very much secular ones, bordering on pagan traditions (snow, bells, trees).

You must have grown up in a different time. My schools, especially elementary schools, were definitely oriented to 'we are Christians here even if we can't bluntly teach the Bible'. 'Silent Night, Holy Night' was a staple at the CHRISTMAS PTA meetings. As someone who was religion skeptical even in elementary school, I felt quite like an outsider. 'Holiday' (you know, 'holy day') breaks were Christmas and Easter, not Winter and Spring breaks.

[scirreeve]

I went to grade school in a tiny town. Probably 30% of the kids were JW and didn't do the pledge of allegiance or celebrate Xmas etc. No kid cared - don't know about the adults.

[Azastan]

I went to grade school in a tiny town. Probably 30% of the kids were JW and didn't do the pledge of allegiance or celebrate Xmas etc. No kid cared - don't know about the adults.

Interesting that I had quite the different experience. There was significant pushback against someone like me, who didn't perform the pledge of allegiance.

As someone who was a foreigner, I was intensely aware that I was not considered a 'real' American by my fellow students. This was brought home the year that one of my teachers asked if anyone knew the difference between the UK system of government, and the US system of government. I knew, because I'd been taught at home. I was told by one child of 10 or 11 that 'if I didn't like the US, I should go back to England'. Said by a child, to a child (and who obviously wasn't going to get on a ship and head back home). I said nothing about the comparative values of the two systems, just explained the differences.

Such hate. I've never forgotten it.

[neeneko]

So much of this depends on time and region.

When (and where) I was in school, it was right in the middle of wave of 'oh, if we allow any religious activities, we have to allow them all? not just christian? Well, NO activities then, look what those horrible gay people did to your bible study!'

[northland10]

I will admit I had managed to wander through a rather sheltered world from a bunch of the nastiness and I realize that there were others schools and other towns that were not that way. I was a child of the late 70s early 80s so that may be a bit different that others.

ETA: There is also the issue, to be honest, that I may have missed signals that somebody of a different or no faith may have picked up. That is why conversations like this are important, to hear what others hear.

[raison de arizona]

Not so much religion in schools, but religious schools. I guess.

[RTH10260]

I guess it's part of the trail of tears ...

They took part in Apache ceremonies. Their schools expelled them for satanic activities
Educators on the Fort Apache Reservation have repeatedly condemned teens for participating in a sacred dance. It follows a pattern of Christian discipline begun more than a century ago

Nicolle Okoren with photographs by Trevor Christensen
Mon 24 Jun 2024 16.00 CEST

The way the school saw it, it was devil worship.

In October 2019, three teenage girls were punished for participating in a spiritual ceremony. Their Arizona school expelled two of them, and let the third off with a warning, citing their attendance as a violation of school policy and grounds for expulsion.

Caitlyn, now 18, says she and her friends were disciplined for participating in a Sunrise Dance, a traditional Native ceremony at the core of White Mountain Apache culture.

The Monday after the dance, Caitlyn’s parents told her to stay home that day. They had received a call from East Fork Lutheran school telling them not to send their daughter in. She didn’t know why. Then around noon, her mom got another phone call. The principal wanted to meet with Caitlyn, her parents and the local preacher. The principal and preacher also invited the two other girls and their families to their own private meetings with school leadership.

At the start of each meeting, the families were chastised for participating in the dance. Caitlyn remembers her mother telling the principal and preacher how hypocritical they were to say the Apache people were not praying to God. “In the Bible, God himself says to come to me in all sorts,” she argued. “The dance is also a prayer; it’s another way.”

The leadership of the school, on the Fort Apache Reservation, disagreed with that interpretation and used pictures of the event posted on Facebook as evidence for their expulsions.

The other two girls were immediately given letters of expulsion. Caitlyn was just given a warning. “I knew that I was already one of the principal’s favorites,” she says. “I think they just gave me a second chance, but they gave me a strong warning not to have a dance.”

For the first 12 years of her life, Caitlyn looked forward to having her own dance – a sacred coming-of-age experience celebrating the transition from girlhood to womanhood. It’s a great financial sacrifice for the family. Over four days, a girl’s community prays for her. They offer her gifts and witness her as she participates in rituals symbolizing her maturity and growth. A medicine man presides over the event, praying and singing with holy members of the community called Crown Dancers, who recite the creation story to the audience.

The idea meant the world to Caitlyn. But she didn’t have her own Sunrise Dance: if she were found out, she would be expelled from school immediately, a stain on on her permanent record that could affect her college opportunities.

At the time, her private school’s teachers were mostly white people who would often discuss the satanic nature of Apache traditions. When Caitlyn was in fifth grade, she was given an F on an art project for drawing the White Mountain Apache crest and including an eagle feather. An “A” student, she was devastated to be chastised this way. As Caitlyn remembers it, her teacher smiled and explained that this kind of project wasn’t allowed because it denoted “pagan worship”. Her father was furious but the family couldn’t do anything about it. It was what the girl and her family expected from the white people who worked on the reservation.

But these expulsions felt different. Watching other girls get publicly exiled from their school community meant that fear soon took root, cracking the foundation of Apache pride her family had worked to build beneath her.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- ... eservation

[pipistrelle]

wtf???

[northland10]

The private school is a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) school. WELS makes the Missouri Synod look like flaming liberals.

This is not surprising for them.

[pipistrelle]

The private school is a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) school. WELS makes the Missouri Synod look like flaming liberals.

This is not surprising from for them.

The rez should evict them, but I don’t know what their education options are.

[sugar magnolia]

From the article;

The Whiteriver Assembly of God, a Pentecostal church, stated in its missionary handbook that Crown Dancers – those who help welcome the girl into womanhood during the Sunrise Dance – could be a “demonic manifestation”.

This from a religion who thinks speaking in tongues is not only acceptable, but desired.

[sugar magnolia]

The private school is a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) school. WELS makes the Missouri Synod look like flaming liberals.

This is not surprising from for them.

The rez should evict them, but I don’t know what their education options are.

Not much better, apparently;

Private schools operate as they choose, and there are no legal precedents, nor federal laws or policies, which could be used to protect Indigenous beliefs in this context. Even in public schools, Indigenous students and communities are still fighting in court to be allowed to wear traditional tribal regalia, traditional hairstyles, or tribal clothing, especially during high school graduation ceremonies.

[pipistrelle]

I don’t know why I was surprised. I’ve seen that many boys and men are pressured to cut their hair. But expulsion is an extreme reaction to a clothing choice.

[roadscholar]

What is the yellow dot in the SE?

Bananabaptists?

[raison de arizona]

OK Schools Chief Says Schools Will Now Be Required to Teach the Christian Bible
This is just stunning and unconstitutional.

After getting smacked down by the Oklahoma Supreme Court yesterday after his attempt to fund a Catholic school using tax dollars, Schools Superintendent Ryan Walter announced today that from this day forward every public school in the state will be required to have a Bible in the classroom and teach from it.

The white christian nationalist was elected in 2022 with the goal of transforming the public school system into a fundamentalist christian laboratory. Under his new policy, students and teachers of other faiths will not have to option of opting out or refusing this requirement. Walters made it clear today that all students will receive christian indoctrination:

"The Bible is a necessary historical document to teach our kids about the history of this country, to have a complete understanding of western civilization, to have an understanding of the basis of our legal system. It is one of the most foundational documents used for the Constitution.

"We also find major points in history that reference the Bible ... Martin Luther King, Jr used it as a tremendous impetus for the civil rights movement and tied many of his arguments back to the Bible."

"Every teacher, every classroom in the state, will have a Bible in the classroom and will be teaching from the Bible in the classroom."

https://meidasnews.com/news/ok-schools- ... tian-bible

[RTH10260]

another article

Oklahoma state superintendent orders public schools to teach the Bible
Ryan Walters calls Bible ‘necessary document to teach kids’ and says Ten Commandments will also be required learning

Erum Salam
Fri 28 Jun 2024 01.32 CEST

Oklahoma’s state superintendent has announced that all schools are required to teach the Bible and the Ten Commandments, a dramatic move that reignites the conversation about the separation of church and state.

In a state board of education meeting on Thursday, state superintendent of public instruction Ryan Walters announced a new memo “that every school district will adhere to, which is that every teacher, every classroom in the state will have a Bible in the classroom and will be teaching from the Bible in the classroom to ensure that this historical understanding is there for every student in the state of Oklahoma in accordance with our academic standards and state law”.

Walters called the Bible “one of the most foundational documents used for the constitution and the birth of our country”.

He added: “The Bible is a necessary historical document to teach our kids about the history of this country, to have a complete understanding of western civilization, to have an understanding of the basis of our legal system.”





https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... -teachings

[Sam the Centipede]

another article

Oklahoma state superintendent orders public schools to teach the Bible
Walters called the Bible “one of the most foundational documents used for the constitution and the birth of our country”.

S'funny, I don't recall any mention of Gitchi Manitou in the Bible? And this Noah and his kin surviving the flood – wasn't the only survivor Wenebojo? Or am I thinking of the wrong country's birth?

[noblepa]

I have always felt that people who advocate schools teaching their children about their religion, are explicitly admitting that they are incapable of doing so themselves.

If parents can raise their children to understand and observe the teachings of their chosen faith, why do they need the schools to do so?

[raison de arizona]

A public school should not indoctrinate its students to a particular religion. I'm not against religion in schools, per se, but it should be more along the lines of "History of the World's Religions" or "Differences in Modern Theology" in an academic educational sense.

Iffn' ya ask me.

[sugar magnolia]

A public school should not indoctrinate its students to a particular religion. I'm not against religion in schools, per se, but it should be more along the lines of "History of the World's Religions" or "Differences in Modern Theology" in an academic educational sense.

Iffn' ya ask me.

Oddly enough, my kids had that World Religions class at their Catholic high school.

[raison de arizona]

A public school should not indoctrinate its students to a particular religion. I'm not against religion in schools, per se, but it should be more along the lines of "History of the World's Religions" or "Differences in Modern Theology" in an academic educational sense.

Iffn' ya ask me.

Oddly enough, my kids had that World Religions class at their Catholic high school.

Hey, me too! And I learned an awful lot, despite it being a Jesuit teaching it.

(That's a joke BTW, I have NOTHING bad to say about ANY of the Jesuits at my HS, they were top notch men in every sense.)

(The admin, on the other hand, is another story...)

[Volkonski]

I think it should be illegal to indoctrinate a child into any religion until the child turns 21.

[Sam the Centipede]

A public school should not indoctrinate its students to a particular religion. I'm not against religion in schools, per se, but it should be more along the lines of "History of the World's Religions" or "Differences in Modern Theology" in an academic educational sense.

Iffn' ya ask me.

Oddly enough, my kids had that World Religions class at their Catholic high school.

Best to have Critical Thinking (or Elementary Philosophy*) classes first. Learn how to put out a fire before you hand out the matches, eh?

And yes, learning about other people's myths, beliefs, ethics, values, is important. Especially if it includes festivals with food and drink and possibly even … dancing!

There are soooo many gods!!
_______
* Only elementary philosophy: anything beyond that tends to be vapid verbiage that poses questions, some reasonable, some absurd, most impractical, but never identifies answers. Or has someone solved that irritating "trolley problem" now?

[Rolodex]

Written by a United Methodist clergy in Arkansas:

So, Mr Oklahoma State Superintendent of Schools, which Bible must now be taught to all students?
The Roman Catholic one? Protestant one? Those other ones?
Which translation? Jerome’s Vulgate? The king James? NIV? NRSV? CEB? Or the other hundreds of translations out there? Which one will be the “authorized” version for Oklahoma school kids?
Will people teaching the Bible have any training/education? From which seminary? A Catholic seminary? A liberal mainline seminary? Baptist? Later Day Saints? Jehovah Witness? Or will you accept any one who claims to know the will of God to teach it? Say for instance a David Koresh or a Jim Jones?
Would a Jewish teacher be permitted to teach that the New Testament doesn’t make the cut as sacred scripture? Could an Atheist teacher say it’s just a book?
Oh, and since the Bible is full of sex, violence, and other “filthy and depraved behaviors”, will those sections be removed like “To Kill a Mockingbird” and “Anne Frank’s Diary” have been in so many places? Lot having sex with his daughters and David’s risqué flirtations with Jonathon, well, that’s much worse than those other banned books.
Can I, as a United Methodist, come and teach the Bible demands the forgiveness of debt, the feeding of the poor, and the release of prisoners? Or that Revelation has nothing to do with predicting the future or that the “Rapture” is nowhere to be found in scripture?
Or will you, as I suspect, establish guidelines that only certain people from state approved churches be allowed to teach it? That there will only be one state approved translation and state approved interpretation?
And if we protest, will we be arrested and jailed for not agreeing with your interpretation of scripture?
You see, there was good reason why the Founders wrote the First Amendment. The original colonies — then states — each had their own state approved church and it was a disaster. The early Baptists fought hard for the freedom to worship. Catholics were regularly discriminated against. Taxes were taken from believers and non- believer alike to support state sanctioned religion. There is no religious freedom if the government can tax me to pay for your church.
The so-called Religious Liberty movement is not about freedom at all. Its aim is to establish a “National Church” whose religious laws we will all be forced to follow.
We are a nation of many faiths and creeds, and also a nation of none at all. These religious zealots know they have lost the debate, and so they turn to the mechanism of government— state coercion— to maintain their faith.
They must be stopped, all our liberties are at risk.

[northland10]