Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
- Frater I*I
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Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
I know we don't hear much from him these days, but ya never know, besides he's the reason I found this forum.
My DP files with a trove of court docs and such, including trial and sentencing transcripts...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lkx9m2zz5i9f ... hQVTa?dl=0
My DP files with a trove of court docs and such, including trial and sentencing transcripts...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lkx9m2zz5i9f ... hQVTa?dl=0
"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see, He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"
Trent Reznor
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"
Trent Reznor
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Flatcap got a new job. Still in prison. Cox is an asshole but the prison wage system also sucks.
Schaeffer Cox
tSopoo1nsoc3hrued ·
Schaeffer is working in the prison now, 7 days a week, making $19.50 per month (not a typo, nineteen dollars and fifty cents per month). He is glad to be able to move around and use his talents.
We are still praying for his freedom!
Have a great weekend.
~Angela
- Arthurwankspittle
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
I'm surprised wife beating pays $19.50 a month.
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
I'm just shocked to hear he has talents.
"...don't teach a man to fish. He's a grown man and fishings not that hard." Ron Swanson the worlds only good libertarian
- Frater I*I
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Some time tomorrow Flat Cap Wife Beater's PD will get a oral argument in the 9th to try and overturn his conspiracy to commit murder charge. Court starts at 0930 PST, so 1330 east coast.
https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/media/view ... Zvp1l5vRes
https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/media/view ... Zvp1l5vRes
"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see, He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"
Trent Reznor
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"
Trent Reznor
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
It was today but I didn't watch it or look it up or anything cuz I am on vacation and don't check poot stuff much when I am vacationing.Frater I*I wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:08 pm Some time tomorrow Flat Cap Wife Beater's PD will get a oral argument in the 9th to try and overturn his conspiracy to commit murder charge. Court starts at 0930 PST, so 1330 east coast.
https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/media/view ... Zvp1l5vRes
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
IANAL but sounds like the Judges spanked his attorney (no judgement yet of course). My favorite quote from a Judge "that seems to sink this appeal". I guess an attorney doesn't want to hear that from a Judge. I don't understand what Cox was arguing and doesn't sound like the Judges did either. I lied about not looking stuff up on vacation but Mrs. Reeve fell asleep so I did it. Never heard of an audita querala motion before so here is the Wiki thing about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audita_querela
The argument is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audita_querela
The argument is here:
- johnpcapitalist
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
I actually invested the time to watch this end-to-end. I was pretty impressed that the judges seemed to really be on top of the game, having brushed up on this obscure type of warrant that Flatcap's lawyer is trying to use to get the verdict overturned. They certainly did hammer on her, but they didn't exactly go easy on the government lawyer either. I've never heard appellate arguments before, so this was really interesting, even if I didn't understand it. Glad I'm not an appellate lawyer. It doesn't look like fun to work on an argument for weeks or months in order to get raked over the coals like that, when you know it's an uphill battle to get a verdict overturned.scirreeve wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:45 am IANAL but sounds like the Judges spanked his attorney (no judgement yet of course). My favorite quote from a Judge "that seems to sink this appeal". I guess an attorney doesn't want to hear that from a Judge. I don't understand what Cox was arguing and doesn't sound like the Judges did either. I lied about not looking stuff up on vacation but Mrs. Reeve fell asleep so I did it. Never heard of an audita querala motion before so here is the Wiki thing about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audita_querela
The argument is here:
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
As obscure writs go, it is one of the more obscure ones. Prison "lawyers" have it in their toolkits, so occasionally a federal prisoner will file a pro per one.
To see an actual lawyer attempt to do so is really unusual.
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Without watching the video or knowing anything about this legal maneuver, I'm going to take a wild guess at the failure point:
It's an obvious application of Flatcap's "I never done nuffink wrong" bit.Wikipedia wrote:...serves to permit a defendant who has had a judgment rendered against him or her to seek relief of the consequences of such a judgment where there is some new evidence or legal defense that was not previously available.
- noblepa
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Is Cox's trial a criminal or civil matter? We haven't heard much from him in a while, so I don't remember.
The Wikipedia article says that the writ was abolished in 1948 for Federal civil matters. Does that mean it is still available for criminal trials?
The Wikipedia article says that the writ was abolished in 1948 for Federal civil matters. Does that mean it is still available for criminal trials?
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Criminal conviction for conspiracy to commit murder.
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Yes, but: The underlying case is undoubtedly criminal, but the law treats writs like this as neither fish nor fowl, or sometimes both.
I would not be surprised if the ruling splits this baby, i.e., "this writ has been abolished; even if it hasn't, Cox still loses."
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
My world, every day. Except for this: We (mostly) win the cases we ought to win, and (mostly) lose the cases we ought to lose. So I don’t feel like I’m beating my head against the wall most of the time.johnpcapitalist wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:17 pm I've never heard appellate arguments before, so this was really interesting, even if I didn't understand it. Glad I'm not an appellate lawyer. It doesn't look like fun to work on an argument for weeks or months in order to get raked over the coals like that, when you know it's an uphill battle to get a verdict overturned.
This is what irks me the most. When we win, it can never be because I was right. The appellate court will invariably find some other reason for setting aside the conviction and sentence. it’s so annoying.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Does anyone have a link to the briefs on this appeal?
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
I saw his appeal on some pooty site but can't find it now cuz I don't remember which pooty site. Haven't seen the prosecution response.
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
I guess Flatcap instructed his attorney to proceed this way based on his prison "lawyering". I don't know how that works but guess she was obligated to proceed the way he directed unless it violated legal or court rules. I suspect his attorney told him it was stupid but he told her to proceed anyway. She is a Federal Public Defender from Western WA and was appointed by court to represent Flatcap.
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Generally, a prisoner seeking post-appeal relief has little say over litigation choices, other than firing the lawyer. And that's difficult to do with appointed counsel.
But my WAG is the jailhouse lawyering was good enough to get a judge's attention, who then appointed counsel. While even appointed counsel can't engage in frivolous litigation, because counsel was appointed for this very purpose, there's an understanding that counsel won't get dinged for attempting to make the best argument available.
But my WAG is the jailhouse lawyering was good enough to get a judge's attention, who then appointed counsel. While even appointed counsel can't engage in frivolous litigation, because counsel was appointed for this very purpose, there's an understanding that counsel won't get dinged for attempting to make the best argument available.
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
OMG, that’s painful.bob wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:02 am Generally, a prisoner seeking post-appeal relief has little say over litigation choices, other than firing the lawyer. And that's difficult to do with appointed counsel.
But my WAG is the jailhouse lawyering was good enough to get a judge's attention, who then appointed counsel. While even appointed counsel can't engage in frivolous litigation, because counsel was appointed for this very purpose, there's an understanding that counsel won't get dinged for attempting to make the best argument available.
I may have mentioned this before, but, based on caselaw (U.S. v. Grostefon), in the military appellate system the appellant is allowed to “personally” raise whatever frivolous nonsense he wants. The military appellate courts require the counsel to assist the appellant in putting lipstick on that pig (meaning, just write it up), and I can’t tell you how many countless hours I spent trying to put a good spin on things like, “even though an unconditional guilty plea ordinarily waives Fourth Amendment issues...” When I was on active duty, I had to do it. Once I retired, those issues are specifically excluded from my fee agreement - dude still has a military counsel to work those issues.
I spent more time on frivolous issues than I did on actual meritorious ones.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
- northland10
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
All three in one file. This was a cross-appeal though I think the original appeal was dismissed. The government did ask for this to be dismissed but it was not, I think.
FYI.. Cox's attorney is a staff attorney for the public defender's office.
All three combined to make a large file so I put it on Scribd.
101010
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Interesting. Thanks.
That's the appeal from the denial of the writ petition; the actual writ petition was filed in district court. I couldn't tell whether the public defender or Cox filed the writ petition in the district court.
It reads, however, like the public defender filed the writ petition. I'm not sure if I agree with the premise that no other post-conviction remedy was possible. But it also isn't a crazy, delay-inducing tactic. "Reasonable minds can differ."
Regardless, the 9th's appointing counsel for the appeal under these circumstances is not that strange. Especially if he had other proceedings also pending.
That's the appeal from the denial of the writ petition; the actual writ petition was filed in district court. I couldn't tell whether the public defender or Cox filed the writ petition in the district court.
It reads, however, like the public defender filed the writ petition. I'm not sure if I agree with the premise that no other post-conviction remedy was possible. But it also isn't a crazy, delay-inducing tactic. "Reasonable minds can differ."
Regardless, the 9th's appointing counsel for the appeal under these circumstances is not that strange. Especially if he had other proceedings also pending.
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Thanks very much.
The survival of common law writs in federal criminal practice is a fascinating oddity. The government's discussion of the writ includes a cite to Corpus Juris Secundum, a venerable legal encyclopedia no longer considered authoritative or even particularly reliable, resort to which frequently reflects a degree of frustrated desperation on the part of the author (I've been there).
I looked up Cox's counsel: BA and MA in English from UVA, law degree from the University of Chicago, nearly two years at a big firm, followed by a federal clerkship, attorney at the office of the federal public defender for the Western District of Washington since 2016.
It's a good thing for our country that young lawyers with a background that would give them their pick of private sector jobs seek out public defender careers.
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Cool - I will watch this and congrats to DZBill!
- Frater I*I
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
I'll have ta tune in for that...
"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see, He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"
Trent Reznor
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"
Trent Reznor
Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater
Wow! You’ve hit the big time, DZ! Congratulations!
Will be watching!
Will be watching!