Republicans behaving badly

[RTH10260]

One point he got right - Teh Donald is a "miracle" - though I have my doubts that a deity may chose a personality like him to afflict the citizens of the US.

[Frater I*I]

One point he got right - Teh Donald is a "miracle" - though I have my doubts that a deity may chose a personality like him to afflict the citizens of the US.

Azhi Dahaka maybe.....

[RTH10260]

One point he got right - Teh Donald is a "miracle" - though I have my doubts that a deity may chose a personality like him to afflict the citizens of the US.

Azhi Dahaka maybe.....

IFF Iranian mythology would have it, then Joe Biden needs to flee:

Yama is then overthrown by a serpentine tyrant named Azhi Dahāka (“Dahāka the Snake”), whose rule ushers in a period of drought, ruin, and chaos.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/ancien ... #ref559660

ps. H/T for getting me lost deep in ancient times


pps. I wonder if the term "snake" representing falsehood is based on this mythical charater too, lieing like the current looser, but also while presenting apples to Eve in Christian Genesis

[Suranis]

Its possible. Early Christianity did take symbolism from Zoroastrianism, which was the Iranian religions till the Iranians had Islam rammed down their throats.

Of course, you have to be a little careful when taking things literally, as the Serpent is also associated with Medicine and Healing in the Bible.

https://www.hebrewversity.com/hebrew-me ... -guessing/

The Hebrew Meaning of the Mysterious Serpent (Guess What It Has To Do With Guessing?)

The third chapter of the Book of Genesis tells the story of the sin of the Garden of Eden. It opens with the following words:

“Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made…” (Genesis 3:1)

The serpent is one of the most intriguing animals to be found in the Hebrew Bible. According to some Bible commentators, in the story of Adam and Eve, it represents the evil inclination. Those Bible commentators usually based their assumption on the words of the Prophet Isaiah, which includes the serpent within the list of the THREE demonic animals which are mentioned in his prophecy of the end of times:

“In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword, his fierce, great and powerful sword, Leviathan the gliding SERPENT, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea.” (Isaiah 27:1)

BIBLICAL HEBREW COURSES? Click here!

Having said that, it is important to mention that the serpent can be found in the Hebrew Bible also in ‘positive’ references – or ‘neutral’ at a minimum – such as in the case of the ‘bronze snake’ as can be found in the Book of Numbers:

“The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. The LORD said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can
look at it and live.” (Numbers 21:7-9)

What is the connection between the serpent in Genesis and Isaiah to the snake in Numbers, you ask?

Well, both ‘serpent’ and ‘snake’ are called in the original Hebrew ‘Nachash’ {נחש} and that is the origin for the English term ‘Nehushtan.’ {נחושתן}

The association of the ‘Nehushtan’ or simply ‘Nachash’ (as appears in the original Hebrew) with the ability of curing or healing is well represented in our culture. A very good example for that can be seen in the international symbol of medicine – a snake on a pole – which became the official emblem of the alchemists in the 16th century (back then it was considered a part of the field of medicine). The alchemists took it from the famous Greek mythology symbol which is known in English by the name ‘Herald’s staff’.

Interestingly, in Biblical Hebrew there is a fascinating strong etymological connection between the ‘Nachash’ and supernatural forces. The Biblical Hebrew word for ‘sorcery’ or ‘witchcraft’ is… that’s right…the SAME as the word for ‘SERPENT’ – meaning ‘Nachash’! {נחש}

In Modern Hebrew, the old verb ‘Le-Nachesh’ {לנחש} – which meant ‘to make a witchcraft’ in the Hebrew Bible – changed its original meaning and is used today in the meaning of ‘to guess.’

The reason for this is probably connected to the usage of this verb in the Hebrew Bible in the context of telling the future by fortune tellers. Therefore, it is strongly associated with the concept of ‘guessing’…

[keith]

One of my favorite myths is the Gnostic interpretation of the Genesis story that turns the participant roles on their heads.

In this story, the Serpent is the Messiah come to rescue the Life Sparks trapped in the physical sphere by the evil Creator spirit.

The Creator God (Yahweh?) has been separated from the Universal Godhead and taken some lifeforce sparks with it. The GodHead sends the Savior in the guise of the Serpent to regather the life sparks into the Godhead. The story includes the idea that it is the Godhead that is giving knowledge to mankind through the Serpent, rather than man having to steal it from the Gods like in almost every other mythology on the planet.

I didn't explain it very well, its been a looooong time since I read a proper exposition of the story, but I think its a beautiful story and far more satisfying than the traditional interpretation of Genesis.

[Sam the Centipede]

Off Topic

One of my favorite myths is the Gnostic interpretation of the Genesis story that turns the participant roles on their heads.

I'm no Bible scholar – nor scholar of any mythologies – but I recall being unsettled at the absurdity of the Tree of Knowledge motif and its interpretation as presented to me when much younger.

Even to my uninterested mind I saw it could be interpreted as a metaphor for saying that everything looks peachy and lovely if one is ignorant and comfortable, but when one acquires knowledge the world becomes a more nuanced and morally difficult place, but that's reality, people have to live with it, grow up. It could be a metaphor for moving from carefree childhood to responsible adulthood.

But then the young me never liked the traditional interpretations of several key Biblical stories: Abraham almost sacrificing his child – what an asshole! – why didn't he say, as a decent person would "if that's the sort of god you are, eff off, I'm not playing your vile games, I'll find a better god or no god." As for Jesus making a big sacrifice of dying but then tada! not being dead, that seemed no big deal to my 10 year old mind, where's the permanent harm (yes, I had missed the purported significance of painful suffering on the cross, I admit that, but he chose that), and if he's a god, why do something so mind-blowing absurd?

Yeah, I'm sure apologists have contrived explanations to circumvent the apparent nonsensicalities (or the "it's a mystery" cop-out!), and they'd comsider my version naïve, but there's something wrong with your boat if you spend all the time fixing its leaks.

I agree with your more general point: Gnostic interpretations are quite fun! They provide a lesson in how stories and texts can have varied interpretations.

[Rolodex]

Off Topic

If you enjoy different takes on the Bible, let me recommend TikTok-er Jeremy. https://www.tiktok.com/@skeptic.pastor He talks about things like how the Bible made him pro-choice, how the rapture is not Biblical, Mary Magdalen as a venture capitalist and more. He's a former evangelical who's now a lefty UM seminary-trained clergy. Full disclosure: he's a personal friend.

[Sam the Centipede]

Off Topic

If you enjoy different takes on the Bible, let me recommend TikTok-er Jeremy. https://www.tiktok.com/@skeptic.pastor He talks about things like how the Bible made him pro-choice, how the rapture is not Biblical, Mary Magdalen as a venture capitalist and more. He's a former evangelical who's now a lefty UM seminary-trained clergy. Full disclosure: he's a personal friend.

I recall some folk pointing out that there is no obvious Biblical injunction against abortion; it is barely mentioned and never condemned - unless one stretches the "thou shalt not murder" commandment to include abortion, which is, ah, tenuous. One might expect an omniscient god to be a little clearer, although a believer could argue that the voices in senior priests' heads are that god doing the belated clarification, I dunno. I have no strong opinion on that, religious views are not mine to hold or argue about.

I don't know the purported basis for evangelicals' febrile opposition to abortion (as opposed to their motivation, which is a different topic).

While I thank you for the recommendation, I probably won't follow it up. I understand ordinary folk enjoying the religion of their childhood or environment, but it baffles me how people can study these texts in any detail and not come away screaming "but this is all nonsense!" Pivoting to alternative interpretations which suit one's current mindset seems to me to be intellectually wet and not especially interesting.

However, clearly people do that and they are free to do so. It takes all sorts.

[Suranis]

Off Topic

Abotion stuffs

Since I dont feel like people screaming that I want women to die, theres an extensive discussion here of the history on the thoughts about Aborion and when life begins. it goes back a lot further than you think and its not really a Chrisitan idea.

And the Gnostics would have been horrified at Abortion becasise it would be destroying the "good" matter in the universe and helping the "bad" matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoulment

[RTH10260]

Off Topic

Abotion stuffs

Since I dont feel like people screaming that I want women to die, theres an extensive discussion here of the history on the thoughts about Aborion and when life begins. it goes back a lot further than you think and its not really a Chrisitan idea.

And the Gnostics would have been horrified at Abortion becasise it would be destroying the "good" matter in the universe and helping the "bad" matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoulment

Off Topic

Or maybe one just has prevented the next Hitler / Stalin etc to be born

[Dr. Ken]

[AndyinPA]

That will look good after he's a convicted felon.

[raison de arizona]

From August '23. They're not sending their best.

A Minnesota jury has found GOP strategist, donor & founder of Big Tent Republicans, Anton Lazzaro, guilty of sex trafficking children.

Story: https://apnews.com/article/anton-tony-l ... 921246b963

[raison de arizona]

I can only hope that there is some further context that is missing here.

But still.

Nothing says “today’s GOP” like MAGA Maine state representative Laurel Libby asking what the Nazis did that was so bad and what did they do that was so illegal and how did they infringe on anyone’s rights. JFC.

[neonzx]

Home schooling mishap?

[AndyinPA]

That could have gone in the Stupid Thread.

[northland10]

Home schooling mishap?

We should stop always blaming schooling or even homeschooling for everything. Stupid is as stupid does. We have idjits with degrees from Ivy League schools.

They don't make these stupid claims due to lack of schooling but out of a lack of caring (about facts, people, the country, etc). They blab for blabbing sake and don't bother using their brain or any prior knowledge.

[Dave from down under]

At a guess she was talking about some current US Nazis.

[keith]

At a guess she was talking about some current US Nazis.

That was my take too. Referencing some incident that the chamber was discussing at the time?

[pipistrelle]

At a guess she was talking about some current US Nazis.

Seems she was talking about the present crop of Nazis, not the WWII variety. If she wants to identify with Nazis, let her.

[Whatever4]

This was in Maine, about Neo-Nazis. She was discussing a bill to ban paramilitary activity. Some groups have been seeking to set up camps for pseudomilitia training in these here woods.

Ban on paramilitary activity passes by 1 vote in Maine House
The bill would ban paramilitary activity intended to create public disturbances or violence.

A proposed ban on paramilitary activity that was inspired by a planned neo-Nazi training camp in a rural northern Maine narrowly won approval in the House of Representatives on Thursday.

It’s the second controversial bill in as many days to pass the House by a single vote. A proposal to have Maine join a group of states hoping to choose U.S. presidents based on the national popular vote passed by a one-vote margin Tuesday.

The bill that would ban paramilitary activity intended to create public disturbances or violence now heads to the Senate for final legislative approval. The Senate previously endorsed the proposal with a four-vote margin.

Gov. Janet Mills has not weighed in on whether she would sign the bill into law.

Hate groups are on the march in Maine
Thursday marked the third House debate on the bill. It passed by six votes in an initial vote, but 24 members were absent at the time. House Democrats abruptly tabled a second vote on the bill on Feb. 29, after realizing they didn’t have the votes to pass it.

On Thursday, Republicans urged Democrats to reject the bill, saying it was an unconstitutional overreaction to media reports of neo-Nazi activity in the state last summer. They argued that the bill would infringe on the First Amendment rights to free speech and association and Second Amendment rights to keep and bear arms, which under the Maine Constitution “shall never be questioned.”

Rep. Laurel Libby, R-Auburn, argued that those rights also extend to neo-Nazis – even if one disagrees with their message and stated goals.

“It’s is our duty to protect the Nazis’ right to free speech and association, as long as it does not infringe on someone else’s rights – as long as they are not harming someone else,” Libby said.

While Republicans argued that the bill’s standards for illegal activity were overly broad and vague, Democrats pushed back on assertions that the bill, L.D. 2130, could be used against groups like the Boy Scouts, American Legions, and firearm and self-defense instructors.

Rep. Tavis Hasenfus, D-Readfield, said that any allegations made against an individual or group would need to be proven in court.

“In any prosecution, a prosecutor needs to prove every single element of that crime beyond a reasonable doubt and here would be a knowing standard, which is the highest standard that a prosecutor must prove,” Hasenfus said.

If enacted, Maine would join 26 other states with similar laws, according to Jacob Glick, policy counsel with the Georgetown Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection.

Rep. Laurie Osher, D-Orono, submitted the bill in response to efforts by Christopher Pohlhaus, a prominent neo-Nazi, to establish a paramilitary training center in the northern Maine town of Springfield. He later abandoned those plans amid public backlash that followed a Press Herald report on rising activity among hate organizations in Maine.

And in 2021, a group of armed men in uniforms calling themselves the Rise of the Moors was traveling to Maine with the stated goal of paramilitary training. That group was apprehended in Massachusetts after an armed standoff along Interstate 95. They did not have licenses to carry firearms in that state.

Attorney General Aaron Frey says Maine does not have an effective way to stop such activity.

Should paramilitary training camps be banned in Maine? Lawmakers are divided
Osher’s bill would allow the attorney general to seek a court order to stop such activity if the state can prove that a person is “intentionally or knowingly” using their training to cause civil disorder, which is defined as “any public disturbance involving an act of violence by a group of two or more persons that causes an immediate danger of injury to another person or damage to the property of another person or results in injury to another person or damage to the property of another person.”

A violation would occur if someone assembled two or more people, or instructs another person in “the use, application or making of a firearm, explosive or incendiary device capable of causing injury to or the death of, or techniques capable of causing injury to or the death of, another person if the person teaching, training or demonstrating intends or knows that the teaching, training or demonstrating is intended to be used by the other person in or in furtherance of civil disorder.”

Individuals could be charged with a Class D misdemeanor, which carries fines of $500 to $1,000 and up to a year in jail.

Independent Rep. William Pluecker, of Warren, and four Democrats broke ranks to join Republicans in opposing the bill: Reps. Nina Milliken of Blue Hill; Maggie O’Neil, of Saco; David Sinclair, of Bath; and Sophia Warren, of Scarborough.

Independent Walter Riseman, of Harrison, who previously voted with Republicans against tabling the bill when Democrats didn’t have the votes, did not vote in the roll calls, despite having voted in roll calls earlier in the day.

https://www.pressherald.com/2024/04/03/ ... ine-house/

[raison de arizona]

Thanks for the skinny!

[AndyinPA]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... eservation

Kristi Noem, South Dakota governor, banned from second reservation in state

Kristi Noem, the Republican governor of South Dakota recently sued for promoting a cosmetic dentistry company on social media, suffered another kick in the teeth when she was banned from a second reservation home to Indigenous people.

“This person has made a lot of accusations about the tribes, about the cartel, council representatives being in bed with the cartel, stuff like that,” Robert Walters, a Cheyenne River Sioux representative, told a tribal council meeting this week, presenting a motion to ban Noem from tribal lands over allegations about crime linked to Mexican drugs gangs.

“It’s all false information. I make a motion at this time to banish her from the Cheyenne River Reservation … I believe there has to be some kind of policy set up for her to show up at these tribal meetings. She can’t just go in there and do her thing.”

Walters’ remarks were reported by ICT, an outlet covering Indigenous peoples, and the Rapid City Journal.

Noem has achieved national prominence as a supporter of Donald Trump and is widely seen as a possible vice-presidential pick. Her claims about crime and corruption on tribal lands are widely seen as a ploy to curry favour with Trump.

Her first reservation ban, from the Pine Ridge Reservation, was imposed by the Oglala Sioux earlier this year.

[AndyinPA]

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4576 ... e-funding/

The House Freedom Caucus is issuing a series of conditions for considering funding to rebuild the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, as Congress awaits a supplemental request from the Biden administration.

In an official position released Friday, the conservative group demanded that any funding for the bridge be “fully offset” and called on the Biden administration to first lift its pause on approvals for natural gas export projects before discussing a supplemental for the bridge.

“[T]he Biden Administration’s pause on approvals of liquified natural gas export terminals — which, like the Baltimore harbor closure, has severe implications for foreign trade — must be lifted before Congress considers appropriating any funding for the bridge reconstruction,” the group wrote.

The Freedom Caucus — which is comprised of roughly three dozen hard-line conservatives — is also asking authorities “seek maximum liability from the foreign shipping companies upfront” and that the Baltimore port “draws upon already available federal funds” before Congress considers any supplemental funding to rebuild the bridge.

The conservative group released its position shortly before President Biden was scheduled to travel to Baltimore to visit the site of the collapsed bridge, which fell last week after being struck by a cargo ship.

Cross-posted in Planes and Boats and Trains. Wrecks https://thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=500

[RTH10260]

My outsiders guess is that there will be no request for a budget to rebuild the bridge by this administration. Though there will be a request for a budget to go into evaluating and planning the new structure. Now let the House Republicans get themselves a bad name by stopping the reconstruction in its infancy steps.