State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization

[RTH10260]

What they need is some NYC Times Square billboard time

[Volkonski]

Trump appeals $454M New York fraud ruling

https://thehill.com/homenews/4489228-tr ... press.coop

Trump’s appeal was expected because he and his lawyers have attacked the judge’s ruling as politically motivated and a “manifest injustice” for days. Trump has denied any wrongdoing.

With Trump’s notice of appeal formally filed, the case will head to the First Judicial Department Appellate Division, where the former president will seek to get the nine-figure fine and the other penalties tossed.

The appeal comes after Trump’s attorneys sought to delay enforcement of the $454 million sum by 30 days to “protect” the former president’s appellate rights. Engoron last week declined to do so.

“You have failed to explain, much less justify, any basis for a stay,” Engoron responded to the request. “I am confident that the Appellate Division will protect your appellate rights.”

Trump is also responsible for paying additional interest on the stunning fine if it is upheld. The clock began when Engoron entered judgment and has been climbing by tens of thousands of dollars per day.

New York Attorney Letitia James (D) has teased the former president by posting the updated amount each day on X, formerly known as Twitter.

While Engoron’s ruling won’t shutter Trump’s company, it could significantly shake up its organization and leave the namesake family business without a Trump at its helm for the first time.

Beyond the penalties against Trump, his two adult sons, Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr., are banned from serving in leadership roles in New York businesses for two years.

The judge also expanded the authority of an independent monitor to oversee the Trump Organization’s finances and imposed fines against Trump’s sons and top company executives.

[Flatpoint High]

trumdebt.png (491.6 KiB) Viewed 1118 times

https://trumpdebtcounter.com

[RTH10260]

MTN Ben Meiselas comments on the notice to appeal and points out that no bond has yet been submitted

► Show Spoiler

[realist]

I haven't listened to more than a minute or so of the video, because I can't stand listening to Ben, but

by RTH10260 » Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:42 am
MTN Ben Meiselas comments on the appeal and points out that no bond has been submitted

What about it? If he hasn't submitted a bond or put up adequate and proper security he's subject to execution of the judgment unless, say, an appeal court grants a stay.

[RTH10260]

I haven't listened to more than a minute or so of the video, because I can't stand listening to Ben, but

by RTH10260 » Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:42 am
MTN Ben Meiselas comments on the appeal and points out that no bond has been submitted

What about it? If he hasn't submitted a bond or put up adequate and proper security he's subject to execution of the judgment unless, say, an appeal court grants a stay.

His point was that any reasonable lawyer would put up the bond with the appeal (while i think at this time it was only the notice of appeal) so that the other party does not see a ground to proceed with cashing in in a manner not under the control of defendant, and have his assets messed up.

[chancery]

Is it correct that the clock starts ticking and that if Trump does not manage to stay collection of the judgement, the State of New York can start seizing his assets 30 days from today?

That's what I'm seeing on the twitter.

I've kept my mouth shut on the not very important* question of exactly when the state court judgment becomes enforceable, because I don't have the research tools needed to make it easy to unscramble the thicket of CPLR sections, court rules, and related statutes, and it would be unrewardingly tedious to do the analysis without them.

However, I haven't been able to find any authority for the proposition that the judgment becomes enforceable 30 days after it is issued, unlike federal court, where FRCP 62(a) makes it clear that judgment enforcement is automatically stayed for 30 days unless the court rules otherwise.

Raffi Melkonian has been thinking about this as well, and he also can't figure out why commentators are talking about a 30-day grace period.

I'm posting the twitter link without link codes so you can read the quoted statutes, which are posted as images.

Raffi Melkonian
@RMFifthCircuit
So I think the point that Trump doesn’t need to bond to appeal has been made, so let me quickly address one other thing: unless someone shows me otherwise, the $450,000,000 judgment is enforceable right now (realistically, Monday) 1/

Yes, Trump has 30 days to appeal, that’s true. /2

And it’s also true that under CPLR 5519, the stay if he gets a bond is effective upon filing of the notice of appeal /3

Some of the articles I’ve read this week assume that therefore there must be some kind of 30 day grace period before enforcement begins. And to be fair, in *federal* court there is /4

But the New York AG judgment is in New York State court, where unless my memory of the rules serves me wrong, there is no such grace period. So the AG can start the process of taking his stuff right now, not 30 days from now as some articles imply.

That stinks for the defendant (how are you going to get a bond right away) but usually you can fend off the enforcement long enough. But otoh, I have a story of hospital gurneys and enforcement that proves the opposite point.

_________
* It's not very important because the NYAG would "start seizing his assets" by filing the judgment in various offices, submitting an execution to the offices of the sheriffs in counties where Trump has property, and possibly also starting the process for enforcing the judgment in states other than NYS. The proceedings that follow could be thought of as separate specialized litigations that will grind on for months (at a minimum), possibly years, even if none of the Trump defendants seeks protection under the bankruptcy statutes.

So nothing dramatic will happen for a while, except possibly the occurence of events of default under loan agreements, and that doesn't usually happen in public.

[much ado]

I like keeping up to date about exactly how the screws are being put to Trump and how he is ineffectively trying to avoid paying the judgment, which comes due in the E. Jean Carroll case in just a few days.

I'm much more interested in this than in sovcit or birther stuff, for instance.

I like to see evidence that Trump is beginning to suffer.

[much ado]

Raffi Melkonian
@RMFifthCircuit

But the New York AG judgment is in New York State court, where unless my memory of the rules serves me wrong, there is no such grace period. So the AG can start the process of taking his stuff right now, not 30 days from now as some articles imply.

Michael Popok on the Meidas Touch Network confirms this. Michael Popok has practiced law in the State of New York since March 1992 (I checked his bar status) and is familiar with New York procedure.

In this video, Popok gets in the weeds about how little Trump's lawyers know about NY procedure and how badly they are screwing up their post-judgment filings. The video below will start just before he says that, technically, the NY AG can start seizing assets immediately. If you want to know more about Trump's lawyers' screw ups, you may want to watch the video from the beginning.

► Show Spoiler

[Uninformed]

I have no idea how accurate this commentary is but if correct it adds more detail to the judgement/appeal/stay/enforcement process:

[much ado]

I have no idea how accurate this commentary is but if correct it adds more detail to the judgement/appeal/stay/enforcement process:

At about 50 seconds in, Alex Wagner says that Trump must post bond in order to appeal the judgment. That is not true. He can appeal without posting bond, but in that case the AG can seize his assets even while the appeal is ongoing. If the appeal turns out to be successful, the State of New York would have to return the money to Trump.

Michael Popok, in the video I posted above, discusses this aspect in some detail shortly after the part where he says that technically, the NY AG could start seizing assets immediately.

[chancery]

Tristan Snell, a former assistant NY Attorney General who had a substantial role in New York State's civil action against Trump University, but little to no experience with criminal prosecution, is about as bad as it gets. I sympathize with his political views, but his analysis and predictions are mostly worthless. Even former federal prosecutors like Andrew Weissmann and Harry Litman, who do have substantial high-level experience with relevant federal white-collar prosecutions, and whose comments are more insightful, sometimes let their understandable disgust for Trump cloud their analysis.

https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status ... 0957339923

Tristan Snell
@TristanSnell
Not sure who needs to hear this but ...

A "Notice of Appeal" is NOT an appeal.

There is no appeal until Trump pays the judgment or posts a bond.

And he now owes another $114,553.04 in interest today

Wrong, wrong, wrong. It's maybe understandable when he says stupid wrong things about criminal law issues, but this is really inexcusable.

I'd been saving this Raffi Melkonian tweet, but it's obviously needed now:

https://twitter.com/RMFifthCircuit/stat ... 1661421748

Raffi Melkonian
@RMFifthCircuit
Guys I promise you, filing a notice of appeal is how you appeal. I promise you. There's no difference between those two things.

* this is about the Trump case again.

What I've learned in the last few days is that people will just say whatever pops into their head about appellate procedure.

Yes, he has to perfect the appeal by doing some more stuff, but that's really of no moment here.

[chancery]

There are sections of the New York Civil Procedure Law and Rules that are the legal equivalent of spaghetti code, a maze of incorporations, cross-references, obscurities, and ambiguous language. There are sections that can be understood only by reference to other statutes not conveniently referred to in the CPLR itself. There are sections that have been construed by caselaw in ways that are not obvious from the text itself.

The CPLR sections which specify when and how to appeal a civil judgment suffer none of those flaws.

§ 5513. Time to take appeal, cross-appeal or move for permission to appeal. (a) Time to take appeal as of right. An appeal as of right must be taken within thirty days after service by a party upon the appellant of a copy of the judgment or order appealed from and written notice of its entry, except that when the appellant has served a copy of the judgment or order and written notice of its entry, the appeal must be taken within thirty days thereof.



§ 5515. Taking an appeal; notice of appeal.

1. An appeal shall be taken by serving on the adverse party a notice of appeal and filing it in the office where the judgment or order of the court of original instance is entered except that where an order granting permission to appeal is made, the appeal is taken when such order is entered. A notice shall designate the party taking the appeal, the judgment or order or specific part of the judgment or order appealed from and the court to which the appeal is taken.

<shaking my head>

[RTH10260]

so I guess the naming derives from the fact that one serves the other party "a notice of appeal" and the same paper is also filed at court.

[RTH10260]

as mentioned in the DJT2024 thread by Dr Ken (viewtopic.php?p=248418#p248418):

Trump found to have fraudulently boosted Scots homes value by up to £200m

25th February
Exclusive by Martin Williams Senior News Reporter

Donald Trump, his companies and some executives have been found to have fraudulently inflated the valuations of non-existent Scottish golf club properties by up to £200m as part of a scheme to dupe banks and others and borrow more at lower rates, it can be revealed.

It comes as it emerged the Aberdeen club's operating company has run at a deficit since it opened in 2012, and has amassed total losses in the ensuing 11 years of £13.025m.

A US judge has found that it had been wrongly stated that 2500 homes had already been built as part of a project associated with the loss-making Trump International Golf Club in Aberdeen. But there was planning permission to build only 500 and no development had taken place.

According to a judge's civil fraud case findings of fact at one point the Trump organisation had valued the 2500-home development at £83,164 when an appraisal it received placed it at less than half that. That put the value of the undeveloped Aberdeen land at £207.9m.

The Trump Organisation had been accused by the New York Attorney General Letitia James of the inflated prices by producing false financial statements that inflated the former president's net worth.

The Attorney General said this was "particularly egregious in light of Mr Trump's decision... to indefinitely postpone all development plans" after the Scottish government approved nearby offshore wind farm plans.



https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/241 ... alue-200m/

[chancery]

I've posted a gift link to a pretty good NYT article about Trump's situation with respect to the judgment, including some information about the practices of bonding companies. I've quoted a few excerpts, but the entire article is worth reading. Its brief discussion of the enforcement mechanisms available to the NYAG is accurate as far as I know. (I'm not an expert on collections, but I appear to know more than many of the attorneys commenting on twitter.)

Donald J. Trump Is Racing Against Time to Find a Half-Billion Dollar Bond
After losing two civil trials, the former president must find a bonding company that will vouch for him — or his real estate empire is threatened.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/24/nyre ... =url-share

At its most basic, an appeal bond is a document filed with a court by a bonding company, a financial institution that promises a judgment will be paid. Under New York law, a defendant also owes 9 percent interest to the plaintiff until the judgment is paid or the appeal is resolved, an amount that is reflected in the size of the bond.

As such, Mr. Trump’s bond might creep up to nearly $500 million.

But the company providing the bond will be on the hook if Mr. Trump loses his appeal and fails to pay — and so it will want the former president to have skin in the game.

To secure the bond, Mr. Trump will have to pledge collateral to the company, including cash, stocks and bonds. Although each deal is different, companies offering appeal bonds generally shy from taking property as collateral, especially if a building already has a mortgage, experts said.

It won’t be cheap. Mr. Trump will have to pay the company a premium fee, typically anywhere from 1 to 3 percent of the bond.

Only about a dozen bonding companies licensed in New York have the ability to handle a judgment of this size, experts said. And while some might salivate at the possibility of collecting a huge premium, others might be spooked by the sheer size of Justice Engoron’s penalty, or by being associated with Mr. Trump’s polarizing politics and his litigious nature.

Can Trump supporters bail him out? It’s complicated.

The New York court system relies on trusted companies, regulated by the state, that have a lengthy track record of posting bonds.

In contrast, an I.O.U. from a wealthy Trump supporter is unlikely to pass muster with the attorney general, Mr. Zauderer said, and the appeals court could refuse to accept it.

While there is nothing to stop one or several of Mr. Trump’s billionaire benefactors from paying off his entire $450 million debt, that seems somewhat far-fetched. Not only would it require laying out a huge sum, but it would also lead to a significant tax bill for the donor or donors.

[Suranis]

If I was a Bond company I would charge Turnip 10%. 50 Million, cash, right now or you can be germaphobic in a cell with Bubba.

[realist]

If I was a Bond company I would charge Turnip 10%. 50 Million, cash, right now or you can be germaphobic in a cell with Bubba.

No way a bonding co
Pant would go on the hook for a $500+ million exposure for only $50 million. For anyone.

[RTH10260]

If I was a Bond company I would charge Turnip 10%. 50 Million, cash, right now or you can be germaphobic in a cell with Bubba.

No way a bonding co
Pant would go on the hook for a $500+ million exposure for only $50 million. For anyone.

That's the question I intended to ask: if the state prevails in the appeal (and any further steps taken by defendant) can they directly cash in from the bond company? Is the bond company then left with the task to recover from the T clan?

[Fiascoist]

I can only answer using my knowledge of Oregon law, but the answer there is the bonding company is on the hook for the entirety of the bond amount which, unsurprisingly, is the amount of the judgment, interests and costs. (And the Court is not interested in messing up their docket owing to a self own by the Court because they lowered the bond amount required.) The bonding company has no interest in chasing after the loser to collect funds after the dude lost twice (trial and appeal) They want their money upfront. They sure don't want to risk their time or money trying to collect from Trump.
I am leaning towards a few of his "buddies" ponying up the cash, putting it in some form of trust (that the state has a hand in setting up so no legal opposition by them). That might have other problems, depending on the side deals Trump makes with them (gives them Puerto Rico, for example as security).
I guess we will get an idea next week when the bond is due next week.

[Reality Check]

That's the question I intended to ask: if the state prevails in the appeal (and any further steps taken by defendant) can they directly cash in from the bond company? Is the bond company then left with the task to recover from the T clan?

I think that is a point of a supersedeas bond. If the defendant loses the appeal the bonding company pays the state in this case and collects from the defendant by whatever method they agreed upon when the bond was issued. That would include for the judgement plus interest and whatever fee for the bond they charged.

I am surprised there are 12 companies in New York that could handle a $1/2 billion bond. I suppose that some large insurance companies might handle these. A 10% or more return on a six month appeal is pretty good ROI. I guess we are not talking about Sneaky Pete's Bail Bonds on the corner across from the jail here.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

No, but the image of Trump getting taken down by a bounty hunter is amusing.

[RTH10260]

H/T @ R.C.

I could envisage some major financial institutions backing this type of bond companies. And I very well see how they stand in line to take over some of the former guys real estate like the T tower.The state would need to run a difficult liquidation while these institutions are ready to absorb another aquisition. The bond contract will likely match a deferred purchase.

[Reality Check]

No, but the image of Trump getting taken down by a bounty hunter is amusing.

They could bring back Sneaky Pete and have Audrey and Otto hunting Trump while Pete runs a scam on him.

[Rolodex]

Right after the ruling (as in a few days, I think) a flight tracker followed musk's plane to south Florida. I have a nightmare scenario where he buys Mar-a-Lago at some outrageously high amount ("hey I was just buying real estate") which bails turnip out. And then...he owes elon big time. Idk if he can submit to someone else (besides Putin), but having him indebted to musk is pretty frightening.