Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

[Dave from down under]

Apart from killer Kyle walking openly armed past the police that were responding to the shooting.

Apart from police not keeping potential shooters apart.

Police turning their backs and a blind eye to vigilantes..

Nothing to see

Move along…

[andersweinstein]

Apart from killer Kyle walking openly armed past the police that were responding to the shooting.

Apart from police not keeping potential shooters apart.

Police turning their backs and a blind eye to vigilantes..

Nothing to see

Move along…

You can criticize the police behavior, but my understanding is it's not that easy to successfully sue police, even where they make errors that result in harms. I recall a notorious case in which Scalia's Supreme Court ruled police can't be sued for failing to enforce a protective order against a violent husband (in which he kidnapped and murdered 3 children and wife desperately pressed them.)

Some of the causes of action in the Rittenhouse suits allege federal civil rights violations, asserting police favored the armed men because they were white where protestors were, well, racially mixed, but protesting for a Black cause. Not aware of any direct evidence for that.

More generally the narrative in the complaint includes many other factually dubious details. It says police "deputized" the armed men which is ridiculous (Balch said casually the business owner sort of "deputized" them to guard the place.) It makes much of Balch's assertion that an officer told him they planned to push the protestor group toward the armed men and let them deal with them, but no one has ever confirmed that and the officer has never been identified. It says Rittenhouse was obviously underage and should have been arrested, on assumption his rifle possession was illegal. But he was just about 4 months shy of 18 and the possession charge was ultimately dismissed due to its hard-to-interpret rifle exception. It represents Rittenhouse as just firing indiscriminately into a crowd. His actions may have endangered bystanders, but this grossly misrepresents the events. Anyone can see on video he only fired at people who attacked him just as they were right up on him, and did not shoot others who pulled up.

The biggest thing that stands out to me is its assertion that police allowed armed men freedom of movement. But at a crucial point late in the evening, Rittenhouse got separated from Balch and tried to return to his "base" across a line police had set up, but was prevented by police. Oh IF ONLY they had let him return safely! Then he never would have walked into the encounter with Rosenbaum that led to the shooting and no lives would have been lost that night (or so I believe). But at that crucial point they treated him just like everybody else.

[Dave from down under]

If only Killer Kyle hadn’t armed himself and gone an played “Call of Duty III” with real bullets!

He chose to pull his trigger!
He chose to kill 2 people and maim another.

Kyle chose to become Killer Kyle.

Apologists be damned!

[Suranis]

Well there was a good guy with a gun there trying to stop a dangerous killer. Hunky Kyle shot him.

[andersweinstein]

If only Killer Kyle hadn’t armed himself and gone an played “Call of Duty III” with real bullets!

He chose to pull his trigger!
He chose to kill 2 people and maim another.
...

Right, just as the aggressive Rosenbaum chose to attack him and put him in fear for his life.

The sort of rhetoric above always seems bogus and unprincipled to me, a kind of cheating because it so conveniently omits the fact that Rittenhouse was ATTACKED. Yes he carried a gun, just as many others on both sides did that night. Meanwhile he interacted amicably with protestors as he tried to find people who wanted his first aid and didn't behave like any kind of threat. It seems stupid to me on the evidence I saw to think he actually wanted to shoot anybody. If he hadn't been attacked, no one would have been killed. But no one had to attack him, least of all psycho criminal Rosenbaum, a guy who lived his whole adult life in prison and looks to me to be about a hundred times morally worse than the goofball kid.

So people who dislike Rittenhouse can go on saying "he killed two people" for the rest of time and no one can say they are lying. But if it was a different case where the shooter was considered to be on "their" side, I think they would not simply be saying "he killed two people" and just leaving it at that, giving zero credit to the claim that this was reasonable self-defense against attacks.

[Suranis]

Why would Hunky Kyle be in fear of his life in the middle of a crowd? As all those odious videos by Andy Ngo shows, if there is a fight at a protest, the people are pulled apart very rapidly by the people around them and the situation is diffused. The only thing that might have stopped that is the Assault Weapon

And if Hunky Kyle's actions are excused by him being in fear of his life, the actions of the other people who tried to stop him were excused by THEM being in fear of their lives and the lives of those around them. You know, the ones that acted with courage despite the threat to their lives Hunky Kyles assault weapon presented to their lives.

And the "highly aggressive" guys actions are excused by being in fear of his life by the idiot white dude that was trying to get in his and other peoples faces with an Assault Weapon strapped around his neck. The very presence of which was an implicit threat to their safety. Why would YOU be "Highly aggressive" to a guy with a gun? That makes zero sense, but then he is convienently not around to give his side of the story. Funny that.

Sorry dude, I know you swoon at every blubber the Blubbering Kyle makes, but the fact is HE chose to bring the Gun which escalated every situations he went into, HE chose to pretend to be a Medic and piss everyone off by getting in peoples faces with the GUN swinging around his neck, and HE chose to shoot the ACTUAL medic there who was ACTUALLY helping treat people without being told to fuck off due to him not having a threat to their lives hanging around his neck.

Anyway, just for you, here's a shot of peaceful Kyle's Buttocks while he was there being non threatening to good guys with guns. Oh ya, look at those tensed up Glutes.

[pipistrelle]

I understand attorneys could tell Boy Wonder not to show too much remorse ahead of a civil trial, but he could have shown genuine remorse by leading a quiet life and getting that nursing degree or whatever it was he pretended to want so much. The fake tears at the criminal trial are also a clue to pathology.

[pipistrelle]

Frank never holds back.

IMG_3048.jpeg (405.89 KiB) Viewed 320 times

[Dave from down under]

Who else thinks he practiced this pose before the night while fantasising about killing people?

Killer Kyle went hunting humans that night and got away with murder.

[pipistrelle]

Who else thinks he practiced this pose before the night while fantasising about killing people?

Killer Kyle went hunting humans that night and got away with murder.

That's one of the positions I was taught in rifle club. I suspect you're right-there's no reason to use that position I can see.

[raison de arizona]

Rittenhouse went there looking for a fight to use his gun, and surprise surprise he found one.

[sad-cafe]

If only Killer Kyle hadn’t armed himself and gone an played “Call of Duty III” with real bullets!

He chose to pull his trigger!
He chose to kill 2 people and maim another.

Kyle chose to become Killer Kyle.

Apologists be damned!

Truth

[MN-Skeptic]

If only Killer Kyle hadn’t armed himself and gone an played “Call of Duty III” with real bullets!

He chose to pull his trigger!
He chose to kill 2 people and maim another.

Kyle chose to become Killer Kyle.

Apologists be damned!

Truth

[andersweinstein]

Who else thinks he practiced this pose before the night while fantasising about killing people?

That's one of the positions I was taught in rifle club. I suspect you're right-there's no reason to use that position I can see.

That's just an isolated instant as he was in the process of getting to his feet after being on the ground. He was not holding some dramatic pose.

If you want to watch it again, this video shows the shootings on Sheridan Road as he was accosted while trying to get to the police line. See if you can even catch the moment where that position occurred. It's meaningless.

[Suranis]

And all I wanted to do was give you a thrilling moment of pleasure so you could admire his glutes. Tsk, no gratitude from people.

It was also not when it happened as the people in the background are not looking at the guy who just discharged a firearm, which tends to be very loud and draw peoples attention, nor is there people around him. That photo was earlier when he was showing off to reporters about how great he was with his big gun, and packet of plasters of medical helpfulness +2. And then got pissed when he tried to show off how he was a great Medic and guardian of the people. And people told him to piss off which humiliated him in front of the reporters.

Tends to make people want to shoot guys to prove how great one is and then claim self defense. And you get to shoot a good guy with a gun who is actually a medic and doing the thing you failed to impress the reporter with earlier! Bonus, 2 revenges in one shot.

Would you like to hear about the guys who shot people in the back and got acquitted because they claim self defense? Thrilling reading. Or as when someone tried to troll me that Kyle would be acquitted, I said "Big deal, so was O J Simpson." Oddly he didn't respond to that.

[Dave from down under]

If Kyle hadn’t shot people he would just be a sad little failure.

Now he is a despicable degenerate failure.

[sad-cafe]

Who else thinks he practiced this pose before the night while fantasising about killing people?

That's one of the positions I was taught in rifle club. I suspect you're right-there's no reason to use that position I can see.

That's just an isolated instant as he was in the process of getting to his feet after being on the ground. He was not holding some dramatic pose.

If you want to watch it again, this video shows the shootings on Sheridan Road as he was accosted while trying to get to the police line. See if you can even catch the moment where that position occurred. It's meaningless.

YOU have a f'n excuse for everything that little killer does don't you.

why don't you just go to him and complete his happy ending for him.

GAWD you make me sick

[andersweinstein]

It was also not when it happened as the people in the background are not looking at the guy who just discharged a firearm, which tends to be very loud and draw peoples attention, nor is there people around him. That photo was earlier when he was showing off to reporters about how great he was with his big gun, and packet of plasters of medical helpfulness +2. And then got pissed when he tried to show off how he was a great Medic and guardian of the people. And people told him to piss off which humiliated him in front of the reporters.

No, that picture is certainly not from his earlier interview with the reporter, it is indeed from just after the shooting the only time that he was in anything like that position on the road. There was nothing remotely like that during his interview or walkabout with the reporter (Richie McGinnis). When you say he was humiliated at being told to pissoff, I think you must be referring to the interaction with "Yellow Pants". But all I see there is that he received some sass and cheerfully shrugged it off so it did not affect him.

That's one reason I don't believe Rittenhouse wanted to shoot anybody. He just doesn't look like an aggressive person seeking confrontation, to me. He's a goofball, definitely, but seems well-intentioned if misguided and maybe naive to think other people are just going to accept him as a helpful person. He's self-important, sure, talking big with phrases like "If you're injured, 'm running into harm's way" but I think he has NO FRIGGIN IDEA that he might actually have to use his weapon. Big talk, but when attacked .... he ran. Another is that he cheerfully invited the reporter to follow him, which he wouldn't do if he were planning to go confront someone. And you can see folks not even looking up from their phones as he went by, belying the idea that protestors saw him as some kind of dangerous threat (though again, definitely a little wary of this goofball). Anyway, here's the interview with the reporter, you can check yourself.

[sad-cafe]

just shut the F up and go to that little killer and "adopt" him like Gaetz and Johnson

then you can have your little boy play toy and have him demonstrate all his cool moves for you since you seem to get off on it

[MN-Skeptic]

YOU have a f'n excuse for everything that little killer does don't you.

why don't you just go to him and complete his happy ending for him.

GAWD you make me sick

The wonderful thing about Fogbow is that you can block seeing people's replies - unless, of course, someone quote responds to them.

Do like I do and go to User Control Panel, select the Friends & Foes tab, and add his user name to the Foes group.

[Suranis]

That's one reason I don't believe Rittenhouse wanted to shoot anybody. He just doesn't look like an aggressive person seeking confrontation, to me.

Well, ya, that's one problem - your appeal to your own perception. But no-one is paraded in front of a bunch of gun loving fanatics if it was obvious they were not seeing a confrontation or look like they are just a goofball. The rest of the world is obviously not agreeing with your perception. You cant actually bring up valid examples of evidence for your perception. Therefore, the guy with the twisted unreliable perception is you.

I really shouldn't have validated this guy by engaging him in conversation. Loneliness is really a killer, and can make one defend even the worst people to get people to notice one and have a brief conversation.

Here's some advice, son. Find something interesting to read about and learn about it, then you might have decent positive stuff to contribute to a conversation. Making people mad so they will talk to you is just a fools errand, not matter how much you are telling yourself you are "riding them heh heh."

[raison de arizona]

Anders, Rittenhouse fantasized about shooting looters shortly before The Event. I realize that it wasn’t admissible, but it is 100% true and indicative of his frame of mind.

[Dave from down under]

Pick any murderous monster from history and you will find their fans, who excuse the inexcusable because they want to do the same.

[andersweinstein]

Anders, Rittenhouse fantasized about shooting looters shortly before The Event. I realize that it wasn’t admissible, but it is 100% true and indicative of his frame of mind.

The main reason I don't believe he wanted to shoot anyone: I can't watch the video of the shooting and think that is the behavior of someone who wanted to shoot someone. Why did he run? Why did he first show his gun to Rosenbaum? He's trying to flee (avoid shooting someone) then he's trying to deter him (avoid shooting someone) and then he only shoots as a last resort when cornered. Then he tries to run to the cops, is not pointing his gun at anyone, is again trying to get away, and again, only shoots at people at the last minute when they are right up on him. There were plenty of other people he could have shot if he was looking to shoot people. When Grosskreutz pulled up, he didn't shoot even though Grosskreutz had a gun, but only shot when Grosskreutz advanced. Another guy pulls up at the end and he doesn't shoot. I can't square this behavior with the idea that he wanted to shoot anyone, it just doesn't fit to me. I grant it's *possible* to flee solely to get a better position to shoot, but it really doesn't look like that is what is going on. And he certainly looks shaken at the end.

From the video I have hardly any doubt that he was a purely defensive shooter. I don't need his testimony for that. I think there's a genuine question about whether deadly force was justified under those attacks, about which reasonable minds can differ. But little doubt about him acting from the motive of self-defense.

You might try to say he had a canny plan to *only* shoot people for whom he thought he could later argue self-defense. That seems way too clever for someone like Rittenhouse.

The other evidence that persuades me is the fact that nothing on the video or testimony about his behavior that night ever shows him aggressively seeking confrontation. To the contrary it shows him to cheerfully brush it aside (walking away from yellow pants, just rubbing his eyes after being tear-gassed). And the fact the spent hours trying to clean graffitti, and spent so much time wandering around trying to find some protestor to give first aid to, announcing himself "friendly friendly friendly" (I am not your enemy). And the evidence that he was headed down to the other lot with a fire extinguisher to put out a fire also seems overwhelming, and that also is an innocent purpose. So the circumstances in which the shooting arose don't seem to fit this idea either. And again, why would he invite McGinnis to shadow him if he were planning on "hunting" and shooting someone?

Finally there's just my read of the whole general appearance of how he comes across on the video, which admittedly is subjective, though I'm not the only one who has it. I watch it and I think: Oh. I see. He's not some right-wing hater, he's just this odd misguided kid with no clue. Goofballs with guns can be dangerous, sure. But I think just don't see any manifestation of this supposed wish to kill from any other source.

To be perfectly honest, the psychologizing behind think he wanted to shoot people seems kind of facile and simplistic to me. It's assimilating him to a stereotype. But people are more complex than that. Sure, if you didn't know anything about the case, it's natural to guess he was some hater bent on shooting someone, but once you look further, the other stuff belies that. Of course I'm psychologizing a bit too, but based on what we can see of his behavior that night, the context in which the events occurred. And anyway that's not the main reason. I think all the other evidence, stuff the jury was going on, makes it look like he wasn't there to try to shoot anybody. I tend to suspect the people who believe the simplistic thing just aren't that familiar with all the things the jury saw.

So this stuff you think is important about "state of mind" ... I just think it's outweighed. To me evidence seems a lot stronger on the other side. for that reason I just conclude he was just shooting off his mouth venting in the car to a buddy. It's trivially easy to understand a 17 year old doing that. At the time he just sat in the car and called 911.

[Dave from down under]

Pick any murderous monster from history and you will find their fans, who excuse the inexcusable because they want to do the same.

And here we have the perfect example.