State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization

[SuzieC]

IMHO Trump et al will never declare bankruptcy. That would destroy his (tattered) image as a successful business tycoon for all time.

(PS I've been posting a lot today due to the interest of the subject and also because I wanted to get to 900! I know piker compared to most of you.)

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

IMHO Trump et al will never declare bankruptcy. That would destroy his (tattered) image as a successful business tycoon for all time.

He's declared bankruptcy multiple times.

[Kendra]

I recall years ago a really smart (and funny!) attorney gave a seminar on a debtor's exam. We even had one deadbeat that the boss said he'd be willing to toss money away on the attorney just for the entertainment value.

Wouldn't that be fun if DA Willis and company did that to tfg?

[SuzieC]

IMHO Trump et al will never declare bankruptcy. That would destroy his (tattered) image as a successful business tycoon for all time.

He's declared bankruptcy multiple times.

But not since running for/becoming President.

[Suranis]

IMHO Trump et al will never declare bankruptcy. That would destroy his (tattered) image as a successful business tycoon for all time.

He's declared bankruptcy multiple times.

Ya he;s declared personal bankruptcy 6 times. And lied about the number by rolling 2 of those bankruptcies into another to make 4. And then said those bankruptcies show he is a financial wizard.

Regarding getting paid, the Banks took over his companies for a decade and ran them properly till they got their money back, then cut him lose.

The thing Kendra said above, he was too small time before this to bother with for the amount of legal aggravation he could cause. He made the serious mistake of getting himself into the big leagues where people started looking at all his shit closely. And people who don't give a shit about publicity are now coming after him like they came after Capone.

[much ado]

Previous bankruptcies only involved a particular business that Trump owned. For instance, the company that owned the casino would declare bankruptcy. Trump, himself, did not declare bankruptcy. He had already siphoned off as much as possible from the now bankrupt business. (Part of his business model.) He was still rich, perhaps even richer.

This is different. The judgement is against Trump, himself. It is not really possible for him to get rid of all his assets, especially since there is a court-appointed monitor to keep him from doing exactly that.

I believe his goose is cooked.

[raison de arizona]

I believe his goose is cooked.

One can hope!

[much ado]

IMHO Trump et al will never declare bankruptcy. That would destroy his (tattered) image as a successful business tycoon for all time.

He's declared bankruptcy multiple times.

Ya he;s declared personal bankruptcy 6 times. And lied about the number by rolling 2 of those bankruptcies into another to make 4. And then said those bankruptcies show he is a financial wizard.

Regarding getting paid, the Banks took over his companies for a decade and ran them properly till they got their money back, then cut him lose.

The thing Kendra said above, he was too small time before this to bother with for the amount of legal aggravation he could cause. He made the serious mistake of getting himself into the big leagues where people started looking at all his shit closely. And people who don't give a shit about publicity are now coming after him like they came after Capone.

I googled and found this article on Trump's bankruptcies:

How Often Has Donald Trump Declared Bankruptcy?

Donald Trump’s business record seems riddled with unfortunate events. Despite never having filed for personal bankruptcy, reports state that he filed for business bankruptcy at least four times. But, according to Trump, businesses file for bankruptcy often, and it was a financially intelligent move. He added that “hundreds of companies” have done the same thing he did.

According to this article, it is as I thought. Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy, just individual businesses that he owned have declared bankruptcy, just the empty shells after he has sucked them dry, leaving other investors with empty pockets.

[raison de arizona]

Morans, I imagine this will get shut down.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/stand-with-t ... 0767a08068

[RTH10260]

Trump lashes out after New York fraud ruling

by Sarakshi Rai and Brett Samuels -
02/16/24 5:09 PM ET

Former President Trump lashed out against a judge’s ruling Friday banning him from running companies in New York for three years and ordering him to pay more than $350 million as part of a closely watched fraud case.

In a series of posts on his Truth Social platform after the decision, Trump railed against Judge Arthur Engoron and said there “were No Victims, No Damages, No Complaints.”

He went on to further criticize Engoron and New York Attorney General Letitia James (D) in multiple posts, saying the New York case was a “witch hunt” and that he was fined “$355 Million based on nothing other than having built a GREAT COMPANY.”

Trump, in another post, called the decision an “unAmerican judgment against me, my family, and my tremendous business.”

In a third post, the former president said this “‘decision’ is a Complete and Total SHAM.”

He also accused both James and Engoron of unfairly targeting him in the case, which he has characterized as being politically motivated.

The former president also delivered brief remarks from his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida on Friday evening, where he echoed many of the same sentiments. Trump insisted the case was part of a broader effort intended to damage him politically as he seeks another term in the White House.



https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... ud-ruling/

[much ado]

Morans, I imagine this will get shut down.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/stand-with-t ... 0767a08068

If they keep up getting donations at the present rate (24/7), they'll reach their goal in a little over ten years.

[Flatpoint High]

It's going to take a crowbar to get this smile off my face.

meet drinky crow

[much ado]

More on Trump's business model of making money through bankruptcy. A 2016 NYT article...

New York Times gift: How Donald Trump Bankrupted His Atlantic City Casinos, but Still Earned Millions

“Atlantic City fueled a lot of growth for me,” Mr. Trump said in an interview in May, summing up his 25-year history here. “The money I took out of there was incredible.”

[...]

But even as his companies did poorly, Mr. Trump did well. He put up little of his own money, shifted personal debts to the casinos and collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments. The burden of his failures fell on investors and others who had bet on his business acumen.

In three interviews with The Times since late April, Mr. Trump acknowledged in general terms that high debt and lagging revenues had plagued his casinos. He did not recall details about some issues, but did not question The Times’s findings. He repeatedly emphasized that what really mattered about his time in Atlantic City was that he had made a lot of money there.

Mr. Trump assembled his casino empire by borrowing money at such high interest rates — after telling regulators he would not — that the businesses had almost no chance to succeed.

His casino companies made four trips to bankruptcy court, each time persuading bondholders to accept less money rather than be wiped out. But the companies repeatedly added more expensive debt and returned to the court for protection from lenders.

After narrowly escaping financial ruin in the early 1990s by delaying payments on his debts, Mr. Trump avoided a second potential crisis by taking his casinos public and shifting the risk to stockholders.

And he never was able to draw in enough gamblers to support all of the borrowing. During a decade when other casinos here thrived, Mr. Trump’s lagged, posting huge losses year after year. Stock and bondholders lost more than $1.5 billion.

All the while, Mr. Trump received copious amounts for himself, with the help of a compliant board. In one instance, The Times found, Mr. Trump pulled more than $1 million from his failing public company, describing the transaction in securities filings in ways that may have been illegal, according to legal experts.

[SuzieC]

On Rachel Maddow tonight they are raising the issue of how Trump will pay these penalties. Saudi Arabia is the leading candidate.

[MN-Skeptic]

Ron Filipkowski
@RonFilipkowski

I don’t think Rudy is getting that $2 million that Trump stiffed him.

[much ado]

On Rachel Maddow tonight they are raising the issue of how Trump will pay these penalties. Saudi Arabia is the leading candidate.

Is Trump really that useful to the Saudis?

[Dave from down under]

On Rachel Maddow tonight they are raising the issue of how Trump will pay these penalties. Saudi Arabia is the leading candidate.

Is Trump really that useful to the Saudis?

Depends what they want as Quid Pro Quo to either save him or not..

[much ado]

On Rachel Maddow tonight they are raising the issue of how Trump will pay these penalties. Saudi Arabia is the leading candidate.

Is Trump really that useful to the Saudis?

Depends what they want as Quid Pro Quo to either save him or not..

I guess my question is "What could Trump possibly offer the Saudis that is worth $355 million (plus interest)?" Are they sure he will be the next president?

[Dave from down under]

$450M US is pocket change to the Saudi crown.

Worth a gamble to own the US for 4 or more years???

Probably

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

One thing to keep in mind is that Trump's businesses are jointly and severally liable along with Trump himself, so that will have to factor in to any bankruptcy proceedings.

[chancery]

In a post upthread I expressed concern about Justice Engoron's ruling against Weisselberg. I should acknowledge that I've only skimmed the decision, and not all of it. However, someone -- I'm pretty sure that it was Lisa Rubin <@lawofruby> -- pointed out this footnote about Weisselberg's separation agreement:

Although not before this Court, such provision would almost certainly be unenforceable as against public policy, to the extent that it restricts full and truthful cooperation with legal investigations and actions. Denson v Donald J. Trump for President, Inc., 530 F Supp 3d 412, 437 (SDNY 2021) (Trump campaign’s non-disclosure and non-disparagement provisions are invalid and unenforceable as against public policy).

Justice Engoron could have used an argument that the separation agreement is void on its face as against public policy to support his ruling against Weisselberg. However, it's just an idea that Engoron throws out rather than an analysis that he pursues to its conclusion. I'll also note that the Denson case has no direct relevance to this issue, although readers concerned with the toxic interplay between civil rights and the ghastly arbitration doctrines recklessly imposed by the Supreme Court will be interested in the case's extraordinarily tortured procedural history.

It's frustrating, although I should note that this kind of slapdash decision writing is endemic throughout the New York State court system, and is largely due to the overwhelming case load and lack of judicial resources. Compare the thoroughness with which Judge Kaplan methodically analyzed the half-dozen separate but interrelated reasons supporting his appeal-proof ruling that Trump's motion for a mistrial in the recent Carroll trial was baloney. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .284.0.pdf

[keith]

So the Trump family can just go to Jared Kushner for the money. After all, he got $2 billion from Saudi Arabia.

Please. That's the amount of Saudi funds that Kushner is being paid to "manage." I'm sure that he makes a tidy sum from management fees, and if he profits additionally from insider and self-dealing side deals, I wouldn't, as Dorothy Parker said about the girls attending a Yale prom, be at all surprised.

But the $2 billion isn't money in his pocket.

Saudi Banks would be registered to do business in New York and so out of bounds for the Turnip!

Not only but also, hasn't the SovCit movement pointed out that every State and COUNTRY is actually registered with the NYSC? Out of bounds for the Turnip!

[MN-Skeptic]

Another tweet I liked: "Has Tom Selleck been able to discuss the advantages of a Reverse Mortgage with Trump yet?"

[AndyinPA]

[raison de arizona]

What does the amount of money we are talking about mean to tfg?