Ok. Then sell Mar-a-lago. Trump keeps insisting that it's worth over $1 billion. I bet you Saudi Arabia would buy it!chancery wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:00 pmPlease. That's the amount of Saudi funds that Kushner is being paid to "manage." I'm sure that he makes a tidy sum from management fees, and if he profits additionally from insider and self-dealing side deals, I wouldn't, as Dorothy Parker said about the girls attending a Yale prom, be at all surprised.MN-Skeptic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:54 pm So the Trump family can just go to Jared Kushner for the money. After all, he got $2 billion from Saudi Arabia.
But the $2 billion isn't money in his pocket.
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
- MN-Skeptic
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
Tim Walz’ Golden Rule: Mind your own damn business!
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
tfg has no clue what remorse is. He couldn't even fake it.
"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears… To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies." -Octavia E. Butler
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
I don't know about that. In fact, this passage gives me some agita. If there is direct evidence of a quid pro quo, the judge should have mentioned it.There is substantial evidence that Allen Weisselberg’s $2 million separation agreement was negotiated to compensate him for his continued non-cooperation with any entities with any legal interests “adverse” to defendants. Moreover, as Weisselberg was a critical player in nearly every instance of fraud, it would be inequitable to allow him to profit from his actions by covering up defendants’ misdeeds.
Accordingly, Allen Weisselberg is liable for the money he has received from this separation agreement as ill-gotten gains. S.E.C. v Razmilovic, 738 F 3d 14, 33 (2d Cir 2013) (“The court also reasonably ruled that Razmilovic should disgorge his $5 million severance payment”). Although he was promised $2 million in total, at the time of his testimony, he had received only $1 million. PX 1751. Accordingly, Allen Weisselberg must disgorge the $1 million he has already received as ill-gotten gains.
There's no doubt that Weisselberg was deeply complicit in the Trump fraud; he was convicted for it, and the evidence at this trial confirms it. And the credibility of his testimony in this proceeding was severely injured, even if he doesn't eventually plead guilty to perjury.
But while the separation agreement looks pretty stinky, direct evidence that it was was a dirty deal, no, I don't think so.
Now, this might be a permissible inference from the totality of the record, but without a detailed account of the chain of reasoning, this ruling could be vulnerable on appeal.
Note: I've edited this post a couple of times.
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
This one practically wrote itself. I present for your consideration my latest composition, Treason and Fines.
Three hundred, sixty four million dollars of losing
Three hundred, sixty four million dollars so wrought
Three hundred, sixty four million dollars of losing
How do you measure, measure a fraud?
In memos, apartments,
In records, evaluations,
In loans and SFCs,
In records they lost
In three hundred, sixty four million dollars of losing
How do you measure society’s cost?
How about fines?
How about fines?
How about fines?
Measuring fines
Treason and fines
Treason and fines
Three hundred, sixty four million dollars of losing
Three hundred, sixty four million dollars and banned
Three hundred, sixty four million dollars of losing
How can you measure the trust of a woman or a man?
In Truths that he sent
Or in crimes he denied
In bridges he burned
Or the way that he lied
It's time now to sing out
Although it's not the end
To celebrate, remember three years from New York he’ll be banned
Remember the fines
Remember the fines
Remember the fines
Measuring the treason and fines
Treason and fines
- raison de arizona
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
Letitia James presser livestreaming @6pm ET: https://ag.ny.gov/news-media/livestream
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
Dammit!chancery wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:40 pmSorry to be that guy, but these are civil recoveries, not fines, which are criminal penalties.Dave from down under wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:37 pm Perhaps the higher figure is all parties fines while the lower is just those Donnie is liable for
Actually not sorry.
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
On reflection, however, I'll concede that the Saudis might find a way to bail out Trump from his current cash crunch.MN-Skeptic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:20 pmOk. Then sell Mar-a-lago. Trump keeps insisting that it's worth over $1 billion. I bet you Saudi Arabia would buy it!chancery wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:00 pmPlease. That's the amount of Saudi funds that Kushner is being paid to "manage." I'm sure that he makes a tidy sum from management fees, and if he profits additionally from insider and self-dealing side deals, I wouldn't, as Dorothy Parker said about the girls attending a Yale prom, be at all surprised.MN-Skeptic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:54 pm So the Trump family can just go to Jared Kushner for the money. After all, he got $2 billion from Saudi Arabia.
But the $2 billion isn't money in his pocket.
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
Acyn @Acyn wrote: James: Donald Trump and the other defendants were ordered to pay $463.9 million. That represents $363.9 million in disgorgement, plus $100 million in interest, which will continue to increase every single day until it is paid.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
AG James was amazing!
Tfg sounded pretty pissed off
Tfg sounded pretty pissed off
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
Someone else is more than happy to add another sting
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
I've never seen him look so happy!
"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears… To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies." -Octavia E. Butler
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
I hope the Lincoln Project comes out with a snarky rude ad.
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
So what? Ain't nobody getting a penny, it's all just a public show with no real consequences. Carroll's getting nothing, NY is getting nothing, neither turmp or his gaggle of gangsters that passes for a family is going to face any actual consequences.
It's a joke. A sick one, but still a joke.
It's a joke. A sick one, but still a joke.
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
It is likely that as long as he was just an annoying NY real estate guy with a reality show, they were not going to push it. However, once he decided to put himself higher by going into politics, he put a big target on his back.
So, yes, him being and running for president is possibly one of the reasons they are going after him now. Turnip can whine all he wants, but that's politics. If you have a bunch of skeletons in your closet, stay out of the capitol. That's just life.
101010
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
Well, it was his decision to come down that escalator.
"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears… To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies." -Octavia E. Butler
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
Is wrong that this was the first website and first forum I checked after waking up this morning (at 6am on this side of the world)? Because if that's being wrong, I don't want to be right.
But the sunshine aye shall light the sky,
As round and round we run;
And the truth shall ever come uppermost,
And justice shall be done.
- Charles Mackay, "Eternal Justice"
As round and round we run;
And the truth shall ever come uppermost,
And justice shall be done.
- Charles Mackay, "Eternal Justice"
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
I believe you are wrong.John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:51 pm So what? Ain't nobody getting a penny, it's all just a public show with no real consequences. Carroll's getting nothing, NY is getting nothing, neither turmp or his gaggle of gangsters that passes for a family is going to face any actual consequences.
It's a joke. A sick one, but still a joke.
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
So, what happens if he...just doesn't pay?
What happens if he just throws a couple of million bucks at it and says he's working on it?
They can continue adding interest to what he owes, but if he never pays it, what does it matter? Can they put liens on or seize his real property assets? Seize bank accounts?
What happens if he just throws a couple of million bucks at it and says he's working on it?
They can continue adding interest to what he owes, but if he never pays it, what does it matter? Can they put liens on or seize his real property assets? Seize bank accounts?
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
IANAL, but the answer is clearly yes, especially for the State of New York.Rolodex wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:09 pm So, what happens if he...just doesn't pay?
What happens if he just throws a couple of million bucks at it and says he's working on it?
They can continue adding interest to what he owes, but if he never pays it, what does it matter? Can they put liens on or seize his real property assets? Seize bank accounts?
ETA: I posted this before. Here are the State of New York guidelines on how someone can collect on a judgement.
New York State Unified Court System - How do I collect on a judgement?
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
Tish Tower has a nice ring to it.
State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
I found another NY State Court page that details how Trump can be forced to pay the judgement against him. He evidently has 30 days to deal with this, one way or another.
New York State Unified Court System - Collection Basics
New York State Unified Court System - Collection Basics
There are many tools to help you collect money or property from the Debtor. Some Courts give you the forms you need. Contact the Court to see if it has a form for you and to find out where to file it.
Collection tools:
- A very important tool to help you collect money or property from the Debtor is called a Transcript of Judgment. This is used when you want to Make a Judgment Work in a Different Court or County.
- If the Debtor has a bank account: The Creditor can serve a Restraining Notice signed by the Court Clerk on the bank to stop the Debtor from withdrawing money. A Restraining Notice can also be used to stop someone who owes money to the Debtor from paying it back until your debt is paid.
- If the Debtor has a job: The Creditor can use an Income Execution to make the Debtor’s boss pay part of the Debtor’s salary to him or her. This is called garnishment. The Creditor fills out an Income Execution form and has it signed by the Court Clerk. Then the Creditor gives the Income Execution to an Enforcement Officer. Read People Who Collect the Debtor’s Money.
- If the Debtor has land: A judgment filed in a County Clerk’s Office becomes a lien on the Debtor’s land or land he or she buys in the county. Having a lien means that the Debtor can’t sell the property without paying the Creditor.
- If the Debtor has personal property, like a car, boat or jewelry [or really big jet]: The Creditor can fill out a Property Execution and give it to an Enforcement Officer to use to take the Debtor’s personal property. Read People Who Collect the Debtor’s Money.
- If someone owes the Debtor money: The Creditor can fill out a Property Execution and give it to an Enforcement Officer to make the person pay the Creditor instead of the Debtor. Read People Who Collect the Debtor’s Money.
- Other Ways to Make the Debtor Pay.
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
Lien against Trump Tower, stat.
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State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization
For hoi polloi: I get that this is civil, not criminal, but the plaintiff is the People of the State of New York, embodied in the Attorney General, not Little Miss Nobody or the DeadAndBuried Burger Bar.chancery wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:40 pmSorry to be that guy, but these are civil recoveries, not fines, which are criminal penalties.Dave from down under wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:37 pm Perhaps the higher figure is all parties fines while the lower is just those Donnie is liable for
Actually not sorry.
There is muscle in the state and its AG.
So, in practical terms, what might this mean? A teeny weeny plainfiff might not be able to squeeze the dollary blood from the Trump stone, but the AG and her muscle? Will she collect at least a sizeable chunk?
Is it likely that the Trump Gang will be able to avoid payment by judicious bankruptcy etc. or will they be forced to liquidate and pay?
All opinions and speculations welcome! – especially from folks who know stuff! (yes, chancery, I see you!)