E. Jean Carroll v. Donald J. Trump and United States of America (poll added!)

[Reality Check]

Judge Kaplan: So let me say, during the arguments and instructions, no one else is to speak..

Wonder to whom he is directing that?

[Reality Check]

Roberta Kaplan closing:

Carroll's lawyer: We have an issue with some of the tweets, they were not entered into evidence.
Madaio: These are tweets during the five hour gap. They are objecting.
Judge Kaplan: You did not succeed in entering them. Show me the slide
Judge Kaplan: You are not showing the slide.
Habba: Your Honor, Ms. Kaplan stipulated -
Judge Kaplan: Sit down. You are on the verge of spending some time in the lock up.
(Habba appears to laugh)
Judge Kaplan: Bring in the jury
Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump's testimony yesterday was brief because he doesn't get a do-over
Trump's lawyer Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Roberta Kaplan: This is about how to compensate Ms. Carroll for the two statements- & punishing Donald Trump
Roberta Kaplan: This trial is about getting him to stop once and for all. It's also about whether the rules apply to all, including to Donald Trump. Think of his attitude to this proceeding - he says, She was asking for it
Roberta Kaplan: He claims he had no choice but to break the law and defame her. She was a beloved advice columnist. Then a wave on social media, echoing what Donald Trump says. Let's consider: in 2019 he said "pay dearly" and "dangerous territory."

[Reality Check]

Carroll closing cont'd:

Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump has tried to normalize this conduct. Normally, when people lose in court, they change their behavior.
[Trump leaves]
Judge Kaplan: The record will reflect that Mr. Trump just rose and left the courtroom
Roberta Kaplan: Mr. Carroll's old friend Carol Martin said she just wanted her day in court. Now she has it.
Judge Kaplan: We're going to change gears. The defense is to remain seated. That includes you, Mr. Epshteyn, not that you're part of the defense
Roberta Kaplan: Ms. Carroll's success as an advice columnist obviously relied on her audience's trust. She built it over decades. She had one truth too painful to share - in the Spring of 1996 Donald Trump sexually assaulted her. She tried to suppress it
Roberta Kaplan: Her 274 page book contained nine pages about Donald Trump. New York Magazine published that. Donald Trump then told lie after lie after lie, to destroy her. Put up Slide 4
[It is entitled, Defamatory Statement:
disgrace... never met this person]

[p0rtia]

Just. Nuts.

Listening to MSNBC both-sides the probable reaction of the jury to fuckhead's antics (including walking out of the courtroom during R. Kaplan's closing). The two heads agree that it will be a wash with the jury: some will see bold defiance, some disrespect.

This is what I hate about talking heads: they're proud to ignore the obvious. Whatever the individual members of the jury may think, _they_ refuse to state that this is just more appalling behavior from the defendant, disrespectful and disgusting.

[Reality Check]

More EJC closing:

Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump was lying and trying to destroy Ms. Carroll. On the White House lawn he repeated it, claiming that he didn't know her. He threatened her - People have to be careful, because they're playing with very dangerous territory
Roberta Kaplan: He said, She is not my type. This was designed to humiliate Ms. Carroll. But remember, he mistook Ms. Carroll for Marla Maples, his ex-wife, also a beauty queen. Show the video
[on video: Trump: "that's John Johnson... And that's Marla...]

[Reality Check]

RK brings up Giuliani GA defamamtion case:

Roberta Kaplan: Then he claimed the photo was blurry. It is not. This was classic Donald Trump. Now, the damages. Obviously Ms. Carroll suffered harm... She now has only 1800 paying customers on Substack. Professor Humphreys gave you the estimates of harm
Roberta Kaplan: Prof Humphreys estimates between 7 and 12 million dollars to repair reputation - smaller than other programs, as she explained.
Madaio: Objection. It's not in the record.
Roberta Kaplan: It is.
Judge Kaplan: The defense asked about other programs
Roberta Kaplan: She told you about the case of Rudi Giuliani and the Georgia elections workers -
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: It's up to the jury.

[Reality Check]

RK closing cont'd:

Roberta Kaplan: Imagine being Ms Kaplan [probably a typo by ICP. It should be Ms. Carroll] in that hotel room on 10th Avenue, struck by fear and sadness - the man who attacked her was coming after her again. She wanted to close the curtain. So she hung up jump suit - she was unable to sleep
Roberta Kaplan: There were more threats waiting for her every time she answered her phone. She tweeted, the world needs love - the responses were, "you are a c*nt" and "no way Trump touched this mess," etc. Since 2019 they have never stopped

[Reality Check]

RK cont'd:

Roberta Kaplan: The dollar number to compensate her has to be very large. At least as much as $12 million for the reputational repair campaign, and probably more. And how much will it take to get Donald Trump to stop? Punitive damages are to punish the malicious
Roberta Kaplan: Consider what Donald Trump has done here. He said she made it up, she was a disgrace; he threatened her twice, he unleashed millions of others to flood her with hate. We played his deposition - he called her mentally sick, and threatened to sue

I am biased but I think she is doing very well.

[p0rtia]

I agree. She is nailing it.

She is focusing on the "make him stop" angle. It's an argument based on emotion, bolstered by the harassing comments TFG has been making since the first trial and right up till today.

She couldn't have imagined giving this closing, with these details, a week ago. TFG completely played into her hands.

[Reality Check]

RK wrapping up:

Roberta Kaplan: Watch this CNN Town Hall
[Trump: My poll numbers went up [audience cheers] I have no idea who this woman is, she is a wack job]
Roberta Kaplan: Did you see that? The audience laughed. It made Ms. Carroll feel horribly
Robert Kaplan: His attacks have intensified. While Ms. Carroll was still on the stand, he held a press conference - while you were still sitting the jury box - watch this
[Video of 40 Wall Street press conference: It's a rigged deal, it's a made up fabricated story
Roberta Kaplan: Last Thursday he said, I've said it a thousand times, I never heard of E Jean Carroll and would never touch her.
Are you kidding me? A thousand times? It's up to you to make him stop. He is very wealthy. He said his brand is worth $10 billion
Roberta Kaplan: He said Mar-a-Lago is worth $1.5 billion
Madaio: Objection. These are not personal assets.
Judge Kaplan: Overruled. The jury will remember what was said.
Roberta Kaplan: You can award punitive damages. Yesterday my cross showed he didn't come to 1st trial - but he came to this one - well until just now - because he cares about money. So your decision is the only hope

[p0rtia]

RK wrapping up:

Roberta Kaplan: Watch this CNN Town Hall
[Trump: My poll numbers went up [audience cheers] I have no idea who this woman is, she is a wack job]
Roberta Kaplan: Did you see that? The audience laughed. It made Ms. Carroll feel horribly
Robert Kaplan: His attacks have intensified. While Ms. Carroll was still on the stand, he held a press conference - while you were still sitting the jury box - watch this
[Video of 40 Wall Street press conference: It's a rigged deal, it's a made up fabricated story
Roberta Kaplan: Last Thursday he said, I've said it a thousand times, I never heard of E Jean Carroll and would never touch her.
Are you kidding me? A thousand times? It's up to you to make him stop. He is very wealthy. He said his brand is worth $10 billion
Roberta Kaplan: He said Mar-a-Lago is worth $1.5 billion
Madaio: Objection. These are not personal assets.
Judge Kaplan: Overruled. The jury will remember what was said.
Roberta Kaplan: You can award punitive damages. Yesterday my cross showed he didn't come to 1st trial - but he came to this one - well until just now - because he cares about money. So your decision is the only hope

Can you imagine ad-libbing a bit of your closing in this way? Based on behavior the defendant exhibited WITHIN THE HOUR? What a moment!

[Reality Check]

New letter from EJC's attorneys to Judge Kaplan re: jury instructions:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .279.0.pdf

[Reality Check]

RK cont'd:

Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump can't even deny -
Madaio: Objection
Roberta Kaplan: .. he can't deny because of the first trial... Your Honor, can I go on?
Judge Kaplan: I overrule[d]
Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump had been famous for years. Why did Ms. Carroll wait?
Roberta Kaplan: The so-called gap? Give me a break. The White House, which was run by Mr. Trump, had already denied -
Madaio: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.]
Roberta Kaplan: Judge Kaplan will tell you that a person who has been defamed has no duty to mitigate. Donald Trump's defense table, the first very day, made an argument that has no basis in law. They're saying she had a duty to keep her mouth shut.
Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump claims she actually benefited. It takes a lot of gall to make an argument like that. Donald Trump's lawyer described Ms. Carroll as a fame-seeking monster-
Habba: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: The jury will recall what was said
Roberta Kaplan: I'm going to sit down in a couple of minutes, I promise. On behalf of E. Jean and our whole team, thank you for paying attention to the evidence which was ugly. How much will it take to fix her reputation? Between 7 to 12 million. We say 12.
Roberta Kaplan: Next, we say another $12 million, probably much more. On punitives, I'm not going to tell you exactly how much. You can consider his wealth. Donald Trump is worth billions of dollars, he said that under oath. This will take an unusually high award

[Reality Check]

RK completes closing for plaintiff:

Roberta Kaplan: When you deliberate later today, consider we have a former President of the US who has shown contempt for the rule of law and our system of justice. Stand up for E. Jean Carroll and the rule of law.
Roberta Kaplan: If not, none of us would ever be safe from bullies. There is a way: you have the opportunity, maybe even the responsibility, to put an end of this right now with your verdict - make him pay for what he has done
Roberta Kaplan: Now is the time to make him pay for it... dearly.
Judge Kaplan: Thank you Ms. Kaplan. We'll take a ten minute break.

[Reality Check]

Alina Habba closing for Trump:

hey're back.
Habba: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Counsel tried to tell you what my arguments are. I've never seen that. We've watched plaintiff try to pin Twitter trolls on the President of the US. Here he is reacting last year
[Video: This a witch hunt
Habba: I want to thank plaintiff's counsel for playing that for me. Yes, that's how he feels. Imagine a world when someone accuses you and you can't speak. She said Ms. Carroll defended herself - she said that, just now: a right to defend. What's good for thee?
Habba: She's right, he has not wavered. Because it is the truth.
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained - that has been proved false. As I will instruct the jury.
Habba: Her bankrollers are paying -
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained. Ms. Habba, if you continue you may face consequences.
Habba: The White House denial in an article Ms. Carroll spread all over social media - not part of this suit
Habba: Ms. Carroll cannot. Prove. Causation. She gave her story to The Cut, she said, they knew how to break the news. She was looking to make a splash. On June 21, 2019 at 12:14 it went live - it ignited a media storm. President Trump did not know for 5 hours
Habba: Before that, a flood of tweets responded. Before President Trump even made a statement. She said there were messages of love and support, and also attacks. This five hour gap is essential

[Reality Check]

AH cont'd:

Habba: Before that, a flood of tweets responded. Before President Trump even made a statement. She said there were messages of love and support, and also attacks. This five hour gap is essential.
Habba: You are not here to pay Ms. Carroll for people who wrote mean tweets to her. No. They have to prove a direct causal connection to his two statements.
Habba: This is the beauty and danger of free speech in America. President Trump does not control the speech of others. Before and after President Trump's statement, both of these statement said Ms. Carroll did it to promote her book. Frankly, her friend said that

[Reality Check]

AH cont'd:

Habba: Ladies and gentlemen, I have received three threats this week --
Judge Kaplan: Counsel, that was inappropriate. Jury will disregard.
Habba: They have six threats, only from 2023. Why not before? She deleted them. Or perhaps they didn't exist
[Trump is at the defense table, listening]
Habba: She deleted the evidence she wants you to rely on. They are not here. She has to give them to you. They are not here. She took the stand and said she received death threats the day of the Cut, was in a "trance"
Habba: She didn't call the police - but she hung the pants. She didn't tell anyone - but she hung the pants. Focus on the details, not the noise.
Habba: She was freely walking the streets of New York, she said Midtown was the safest place on earth. She worked in a fake orange jump suit with a fake Donald Trump
Habba: There are two versions of E. Jean Carroll - the one her friend told you about, and the one who comes to court to get money from my client... Ladies and gentlemen, you heard him testify, that he didn't intend to hurt her.

[Reality Check]

AH closing cont'd:

Habba: All he did was tell his truth.
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: I'll deal with it in my instruction.
Habba: My feelings would be hurt to. But it happens when you are a public figure. Just ask E. Jean - she said she was fabulous, she was carefree
Habba: She has always craved fame. She expressed it privately to Lisa Birnbach, that she was fine as fine, that she slept until noon. She didn't think you'd see that. That's her best friend. But on the stand she claimed it wasn't true
Habba: And she hasn't suffered professionally. She didn't lose her advice column because of my client - it's because she lost her column at Elle. Before she conveniently came out with this claim
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Habba: Another tweet of hers: what can be done abou the p*nis? I'm mortified I have to repeat this

[Reality Check]

More:

Habba: Here she tweet, How to dominate a man. [Pauses] Dominate a man. She didn't take it down. She wrote, He will soon regret he even has a p*nis. Is that a threat?
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained
Habba: Now she's claiming other people's tweets made her look scandalous? Numbers don't lie - these are the views and the tweets sent to Ms. Carroll - only five views, fifteen views - these are the ones they picked, to show you her damage
Habba: Now she's claiming other people's tweets made her look scandalous? Numbers don't lie - these are the views and the tweets sent to Ms. Carroll - only five views, fifteen views - these are the ones they picked, to show you her damage
Habba: She's enjoying this. She is making more money today than she was in June of 2019 when she brought this up. She had hid financial rock bottom. Elle Magazine cut her salary in half, no more dinners at Elaine's, just a cottage in the wood, like Montana
Habba: She had been writing the book for years - then put in President Trump while he was in the White House. She sat in her cabin far from the glamor of New York. So she made her way - release of The Cut, she made money. She got publicists, lunch with journalists

[Reality Check]

AH:

Habba: Her best friend said Ms. Carroll love the adulation from this lawsuit, that she was acting like Santa at the Christmas parade. She said Ms. Carroll is a drug addict and the drug is herself, in a communication that she never thought you'd see
Habba: Do you think she wants her old reputation back? To go back to the cabin, with 12000 followers on Twitter? I asked her, After this are you done? She wouldn't answer. She yearned for this. She had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Habba: They picked as their expert Ms. Humphreys. Her report was riddled with mistakes - she can't find 17 errors we found --
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Habba: Your Honor -
Judge Kaplan: Sustained!

[raison de arizona]

https://x.com/KlasfeldReports/status/17 ... 74947?s=20

Trump's lawyer Alina Habba appears again to deny Carroll's claims, prompting an objection.

Judge Kaplan reminds the jury that it's been established that Carroll wasn't lying.

Habba: "It is established by a jury."

Judge snaps to Habba: "It is established and you will not quarrel with me. You will finish your statement."

[Reality Check]

AH concludes, rebuttal by EJC attorney Crowley:

Habba: She said, Republicans were more likely to not believe Ms. Carroll than non-Republicans. Duh! Duh! Thank you Ms. Humphreys. You need an expert to make that point. People are entitled to their opinions. Who do you want you to fix it? Give her money
Habba: Their expert has never done a reputation repair campaign. She said Joe Rogan and Candace Owens could repair her reputation. What planet is she living on? Now during the trial she changed her setting on social media to private. She could have done it before
Habba: Imagine you are living your life. You have a family, a beautiful wife, and an important job to do. You're hit with an allegations. There are no facts -
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Habba: She doesn't even know what I was saying
Judge Kaplan: Move onto another topic
Habba: Under the First Amendment you have a right to speak -
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained
Habba: You've heard the objections, you've heard me being told to sit down
Robert Kaplan: Objection
Judge: Move on
Habba: This is not about Ms. Carroll & Donald Trump. This is about tweeters in their mother's basement. Ms. Carroll has been made whole-
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Habba: Ladies and gentlemen, sorry you had to spend so much time on this.
Judge Kaplan: Rebuttal?
Carroll's 2d lawyer Crowley: I'm going to follow the court's rules, unlike Mr. Trump and her lawyer. Ms. Habba said there was a five hour gap. But there's no evidence of this gap-
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled
Judge Kaplan: She showed you only five tweets-
Habba: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Only one lawyer. Who is it?
Habba: Michael.
Michael Madaio: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Crowley: Donald Trump assaulted Ms. Carroll
Judge Kaplan: I told counsel to remain seated but they won't
Crowley: Thank you Your Honor. Donald Trump is saying, She asked for it. I have to ask: are you really still doing that? Have we not moved on? I think we have
Crowley: She didn't ask to be called ugly, or a liar. Ms. Carroll didn't ask for death threats. She gave interviews because she had to defend herself. She brought this lawsuit to try to get him to stop. You can't equate their conduct

Wow!

[Reality Check]

Crowley for EJC cont'd:

Crowley: When Donald Trump told those lies he was breaking the law. And he's still breaking the law to this day-
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Crowley: Donald Trump is responsible. What could be more on brand for Donald Trump than malice?
Crowley: He is breaking the law-
Madaio: Objection, it's on appeal
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Crowley: You can respond to true charges by staying silent, or apologize. If he'd done that, do you think people would have come after her?
Crowley: They're suggesting Ms. Carroll has to show she'd been broken every day for five years. In their view every day she showed a brave face she was showing she suffered no harm. That makes no sense. Two things can be true at the same time.

[Reality Check]

Crowley rebuttal cont'd:

Crowley: This five hour gap? There's no evidence.
Madaio: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: I'll rely on the jury to look at the evidence closely.
Crowley: Trump's initially denial which was issued by the White House-
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled
Crowley: The White House statement said -
Madaio: Objection, it's not in evidence.
Judge Kaplan: I'll see you at the sidebar
[whispered sidebar ensues, mid-rebuttal
Thread will continue
They're back.
Judge Kaplan: The objection is overruled. Continue, counsel
Crowley: Thank you, your Honor. The denial in The Cut, it didn't say she would pay dearly. His followers latched onto it. They keep saying it four years later.
Madaio: Objection
Overruled
Crowley: Donald Trump kept defaming Ms. Carroll -
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Crowley: They keep coming after her. No causation? Give me a break. About Professor Humpreys. She was the only expert here
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled
Crowley: Professor Humphreys, the mislabeling is a distraction. Their last complaint is that she didn't consider the positive responses - this shows they don't understand what Prof Humphreys did in this case. It's about changing minds

[Foggy]

So they asked for $12 million compensatory and "go for the Moon" on punitives, "enough to shut him up, once and for all." But they can give $5 billion with a B and he will never shut up. He will scream louder.