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#7676

Post by humblescribe »

I volunteered to do a rather cursory review of his personal 1040 just for 2015. I noticed a couple of things that likely will not be in press accounts or other public information. His return is staggering. It probably took 1,000 hours to prepare and review. Seriously. And this does not consider all his partnerships and S Corporations.

If Foggy wants to remove this to another topic, it is fine by me. But I figured I'd report my observations here. I suspect that a lot of us really don't care about his business dealings, so there may not be much demand for more information.

That said, here goes:

He also paid taxes to CA, HI, IL, IA, MD, NJ, NY, NC, and VA. There were state income tax refunds reported on his return from those states. Likely he files in a couple more, but they (like FL) don't have a state income tax.

All his Schedule C reporting (used to report income/loss from business or profession) appears to be PASSIVE INCOME/LOSSES except for his speaking engagements. He did not participate in those businesses (like the ice skating rink and some aircraft businesses). Many of his partnerships are also passive investments. The general rule is that passive losses can only be used to offset passive gains each tax year except in the year of a total disposition, then that particular passive loss is allowed in full. The other general rule is that you cannot switch between passive and non-passive each and every tax year. So, you can't say that the ice skating rink is passive this year and non-passive next year. I'm not suggesting he did, but stating what the rules are.

I think he files so many Schedule C forms because he is taxed in a lot of states. If he gives a speech in Illinois, he needs to file an Illinois tax return for that speech he made. If he has other Illinois business, like a Motel 6 in Peoria, then that income/loss is also reported to Illinois. It is a heck of a lot easier to use the computer to track his myriad businesses across ten or more states that could have different tax rules than to maintain a manual spreadsheet. It is also easy to figure his "Other State Tax Credit" for double-taxed income. Until he moved to Florida, he was a New York resident, so filed NY state tax returns. He receives a tax credit in New York for taxes paid to other states.

He claimed a charitable deduction for the donation of real estate to the State of New York on that 158-acre parcel. The 8283 form reflects that his basis for tax purposes was around $30 million but the FMV used for the charitable donation was closer to $12 million. I did not see the attached appraisal. I am assuming that he received a better tax benefit through the conservation easement donation as opposed to an outright sale. I make no assumptions about this transaction. It is certainly within the realm of possibility that the value as a conservation easement is greater than a sale of this woodland to a third party who would have to spend a lot of money to improve it.

He claimed a tax credit for "off road use of fuel." He claimed that he or his entities used 78,000 gallons of gasoline during 2015 that was off-road. Since the federal gasoline tax is used for road and highway maintenance, purchasers of fuel that pay the federal gasoline tax can receive the gas tax paid as a refundable tax credit on their personal returns. I cannot think how his golf courses and other businesses would use 78,000 gallons of gas. Sure, maybe the Zamboni might use a few gallons, and maybe the lawnmowers at his golf courses might use some. That is a lot of freaking gasoline. A car that gets 25MPG could drive almost 2 million miles on 78,000 gallons. Usually it is farmers or electrical generators that purchase fuel with taxes paid (you can buy it ex-tax from the distributor if you want) and have to file this form to claim the credit.

He reported under "other income" over $28 million in cancellation of debt income. In other words, he had some loans forgiven or written down by the lenders. But this pittance was more than offset by over $105 million of net operating losses carried forward from previous tax years.

He reported about $50,000 in interest income from Junior, Eric, and Ivanka. As long as the interest rates are within guidelines, I don't have a problem with lending money to kids--even if it is an advance on their inheritance--because it seems to be an arm's length transaction. I was amused that he received a big chunk of interest--millions--from Deutsche Bank. I wonder why. I don't think Donnie is a saver. Could that interest be some sort of escrowed funds held back from loans they gave him? :think:

Last, and perhaps most puzzling to me, are the scores of what is referred to as "UPE or UBE" deductions on his return from the myriad partnerships and S Corporations that he owns. Generally, partners in partnerships and employee-shareholders of S Corporations must request reimbursement from the business if they spend their personal funds for a business expense. However, law and accounting partnerships frequently spell out that partners pay their own business expenses like travel, client meals, or CPE courses. It is also in the regs that this treatment is spelled out in the partnership agreement or (presumably) the by-laws of the corporation. But he has millions that he deducts as "Unreimbursed Partner [Business] Expenses." With his known parsimony, I find it unlikely that he would spend all this money on business expenses. I've deducted these expenses for clients over the years, and I provide detail. And these expenses are relatively small compared to the income earned. Yet, for each and every business the detail is merely UPE or UBE with a dollar figure. Between you me and the fence post, I think that this is where some creative accounting and tax reporting is occurring. Just to be clear, I am making no allegations because I have zero evidence. But if there are any irregularities, this is the most likely spot. And, I wonder how much the preparer dived into these expenses/deductions.

Sorry for the length. But for those who have some interest, this might be a starting point.
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#7677

Post by Foggy »

Excellent, humblescribe. :thumbsup:
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#7678

Post by Annrc »

Interesting. Thank you.
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#7679

Post by SlimSloSlider »

TY, Humblescribe.

78,000 off-road gallons?
The guy has been off-road and in the brush his entire life.
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Post by RTH10260 »

"off-road gallons" - is that how he gets back taxes from operating his personal T-One aircraft, perhaps? Though airliner fuel is generally better than road quality stuff.
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#7681

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

Greatgrey wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:15 am TAXES

1.2 gig zipped file

https://waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/de ... ment_E.zip


Or go to the committee web page, Attachment E
https://waysandmeans.house.gov/media-ce ... -mandatory
Too also, taxes are available here as individual PDFs.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-AA15OzX4
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Post by jcolvin2 »

A few thoughts on humblescribe's post:
humblescribe wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:38 pm He claimed a charitable deduction for the donation of real estate to the State of New York on that 158-acre parcel. The 8283 form reflects that his basis for tax purposes was around $30 million but the FMV used for the charitable donation was closer to $12 million. I did not see the attached appraisal. I am assuming that he received a better tax benefit through the conservation easement donation as opposed to an outright sale. I make no assumptions about this transaction. It is certainly within the realm of possibility that the value as a conservation easement is greater than a sale of this woodland to a third party who would have to spend a lot of money to improve it.
Donations of conservation easements are usually based on the difference between the FMV without the easement on it and the FMV of the property with the easement. The position here appears to be that placing the easement caused a diminution in value of $12 million to the parcel as a whole.
He reported about $50,000 in interest income from Junior, Eric, and Ivanka. As long as the interest rates are within guidelines, I don't have a problem with lending money to kids--even if it is an advance on their inheritance--because it seems to be an arm's length transaction.
I am guessing that this is imputed interest under section 7872, probably for a "loan" of money or property to kids in the past (perhaps when he was flush with Apprentice money).
Last, and perhaps most puzzling to me, are the scores of what is referred to as "UPE or UBE" deductions on his return from the myriad partnerships and S Corporations that he owns. Generally, partners in partnerships and employee-shareholders of S Corporations must request reimbursement from the business if they spend their personal funds for a business expense. However, law and accounting partnerships frequently spell out that partners pay their own business expenses like travel, client meals, or CPE courses. It is also in the regs that this treatment is spelled out in the partnership agreement or (presumably) the by-laws of the corporation. But he has millions that he deducts as "Unreimbursed Partner [Business] Expenses." With his known parsimony, I find it unlikely that he would spend all this money on business expenses. I've deducted these expenses for clients over the years, and I provide detail. And these expenses are relatively small compared to the income earned. Yet, for each and every business the detail is merely UPE or UBE with a dollar figure. Between you me and the fence post, I think that this is where some creative accounting and tax reporting is occurring. Just to be clear, I am making no allegations because I have zero evidence. But if there are any irregularities, this is the most likely spot. And, I wonder how much the preparer dived into these expenses/deductions.
I would expect that everything that DJT spends that he can plausibly relate to one of his businesses is deducted as UBE/UPE. I would assume that the relevant partnership/LLC agreements are written in a DJT-favorable manner so as to allow this.
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Post by RTH10260 »

Trump tax returns show ties to China, other countries. Here’s what else they reveal

By Nicholas Riccardi The Associated Press
Posted December 30, 2022 8:51 pm
Updated December 30, 2022 10:25 pm

In one of its last acts under Democratic control, the U.S. House of Representatives on Friday released six years of former President Donald Trump’s tax returns, dating to 2015, the year he announced his presidential bid.

The thousands of pages of financial documents were the subject of a prolonged legal battle after Trump broke precedent in not releasing his tax returns while running for, and then occupying, the highest office in the land.

Some takeaways from a review of the documents:

A bank account in China

The longtime real estate and media mogul with business interests on multiple continents was asked during a 2020 presidential debate about having a bank account in China. He said he closed it before he began his 2016 campaign _ a statement his tax returns show was not true.

“The bank account was in 2013. It was closed in 2015, I believe,” Trump said during the debate. “I was thinking about doing a deal in China. Like millions of other people, I was thinking about it. I decided not to do it.”

The tax returns, however, report that Trump had a bank account in China in 2015, 2016 and 2017.

What comes next for Donald Trump’s tax returns?

The returns show accounts in other foreign countries over the years, including the United Kingdom, southern Ireland and the Caribbean island nation of St. Martin. By 2018, Trump had apparently closed all his overseas accounts other than the one in the U.K., home to one of his flagship golf properties.

The returns don’t detail the amount of money held in those accounts.



https://globalnews.ca/news/9380099/trum ... takeaways/
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#7684

Post by Gregg »

RTH10260 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:30 pm "off-road gallons" - is that how he gets back taxes from operating his personal T-One aircraft, perhaps? Though airliner fuel is generally better than road quality stuff.
Airline Fuel is generally kerosene and is sold with the applicable aviation taxes, not road tax.

Little airplanes burn 110 octane low lead fuel, again, no road tax collected.
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#7685

Post by Frater I*I »

Gregg wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:58 pm
RTH10260 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:30 pm "off-road gallons" - is that how he gets back taxes from operating his personal T-One aircraft, perhaps? Though airliner fuel is generally better than road quality stuff.
Airline Fuel is generally kerosene and is sold with the applicable aviation taxes, not road tax.

Little airplanes burn 110 octane low lead fuel, again, no road tax collected.
Currently it 100LL, 110 hasn't been made in quite some time, closest is 115LL used in aviation racing aircraft...
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#7686

Post by Gregg »

Frater I*I wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:14 pm
Gregg wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:58 pm
RTH10260 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:30 pm "off-road gallons" - is that how he gets back taxes from operating his personal T-One aircraft, perhaps? Though airliner fuel is generally better than road quality stuff.
Airline Fuel is generally kerosene and is sold with the applicable aviation taxes, not road tax.

Little airplanes burn 110 octane low lead fuel, again, no road tax collected.
Currently it 100LL, 110 hasn't been made in quite some time, closest is 115LL used in aviation racing aircraft...

Tells you how long it's been since I flew a plane I had to put the gas in.
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Post by RTH10260 »

Gregg wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:23 pm
Frater I*I wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:14 pm
Gregg wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:58 pm

Airline Fuel is generally kerosene and is sold with the applicable aviation taxes, not road tax.

Little airplanes burn 110 octane low lead fuel, again, no road tax collected.
Currently it 100LL, 110 hasn't been made in quite some time, closest is 115LL used in aviation racing aircraft...

Tells you how long it's been since I flew a plane I had to put the gas in.
Are you flying an Emusk-007 with inflight autorefill option? 8-)
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#7688

Post by Dr. Ken »

Just a reminder. Wallace was right
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#7689

Post by humblescribe »

jcolvin2 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:47 pm A few thoughts on humblescribe's post:
humblescribe wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:38 pm He claimed a charitable deduction for the donation of real estate to the State of New York on that 158-acre parcel. The 8283 form reflects that his basis for tax purposes was around $30 million but the FMV used for the charitable donation was closer to $12 million. I did not see the attached appraisal. I am assuming that he received a better tax benefit through the conservation easement donation as opposed to an outright sale. I make no assumptions about this transaction. It is certainly within the realm of possibility that the value as a conservation easement is greater than a sale of this woodland to a third party who would have to spend a lot of money to improve it.
Donations of conservation easements are usually based on the difference between the FMV without the easement on it and the FMV of the property with the easement. The position here appears to be that placing the easement caused a diminution in value of $12 million to the parcel as a whole.
He reported about $50,000 in interest income from Junior, Eric, and Ivanka. As long as the interest rates are within guidelines, I don't have a problem with lending money to kids--even if it is an advance on their inheritance--because it seems to be an arm's length transaction.
I am guessing that this is imputed interest under section 7872, probably for a "loan" of money or property to kids in the past (perhaps when he was flush with Apprentice money).
Last, and perhaps most puzzling to me, are the scores of what is referred to as "UPE or UBE" deductions on his return from the myriad partnerships and S Corporations that he owns. Generally, partners in partnerships and employee-shareholders of S Corporations must request reimbursement from the business if they spend their personal funds for a business expense. However, law and accounting partnerships frequently spell out that partners pay their own business expenses like travel, client meals, or CPE courses. It is also in the regs that this treatment is spelled out in the partnership agreement or (presumably) the by-laws of the corporation. But he has millions that he deducts as "Unreimbursed Partner [Business] Expenses." With his known parsimony, I find it unlikely that he would spend all this money on business expenses. I've deducted these expenses for clients over the years, and I provide detail. And these expenses are relatively small compared to the income earned. Yet, for each and every business the detail is merely UPE or UBE with a dollar figure. Between you me and the fence post, I think that this is where some creative accounting and tax reporting is occurring. Just to be clear, I am making no allegations because I have zero evidence. But if there are any irregularities, this is the most likely spot. And, I wonder how much the preparer dived into these expenses/deductions.
I would expect that everything that DJT spends that he can plausibly relate to one of his businesses is deducted as UBE/UPE. I would assume that the relevant partnership/LLC agreements are written in a DJT-favorable manner so as to allow this.
Thank you, jcolvin. The one time that I prepared a return for a donation of a conservation easement we had paperwork from the State of California that indicated the value of the donation, so I used that for the Schedule A/form 8283 deduction. That was a long time ago. But I did attach the state's appraisal and valuation to support the deduction.

In your last paragraph, plausibly is doing all the work. Not arguing, but the old tax phrase about pigs getting fat and hogs getting slaughtered comes to mind. I did not add up the amounts that were deducted. But they had to be well over $10 million as some entities had close to a million bucks of "out of pocket" expenses. The point that I was trying to make was that if there were an area for scrutiny, that this would be it. Since there are no true financial statements for an individual, it would be easy to gin up amounts that would take an army to dissect.
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#7690

Post by humblescribe »

To be complete regarding tfg's claim of paying millions of dollars in taxes instead of the $750. The income tax (jcolvin can help me here) is the Chapter 1 tax. The income tax.

Other taxes that are within Title 26 of the United States Code include

--self employment tax
--household employee tax (Nanny Tax)
--additional Medicare tax on wages and self-employment
--net investment income tax on interest, dividends, capital gains, and certain annuities and royalties

Plus unreported SS and Medicare on unreported tips, penalty for early withdrawal of a qualified pension plan like IRA or 401(k), and a couple of others.

Trump paid about $600,000 in 2016 in SE tax, Nanny Tax, additional Medicare tax, and the net investment income tax.

If we include all the employer-paid payroll taxes on his employees (6.2% up to the SS maximum and 1.45% on everything, plus federal unemployment of up to $42 on every employee) he easily ponied up millions. And from his point of view, that was HIS money, and HE paid it.

It is up to the reader to define what exactly constitutes taxes paid. Income taxes only? Income taxes plus corollary taxes like those listed above? And do they include business-paid payroll taxes?

We can adjourn to discuss these nuances further: :bar:
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Post by Kendra »

Trump says Fox ratings are down because they don’t talk about him enough.
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Post by Slim Cognito »

Maybe news outlet ratings are down because we aren't all cowering under our tables terrified trump is about to nuke somebody.
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Post by RTH10260 »

A month without any news about his purported campaign for impotus - what ought Faux News report about the senion citizen in MaL :?:
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Post by Gregg »

RTH10260 wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:10 pm
Gregg wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:23 pm
Frater I*I wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:14 pm

Currently it 100LL, 110 hasn't been made in quite some time, closest is 115LL used in aviation racing aircraft...

Tells you how long it's been since I flew a plane I had to put the gas in.
Are you flying an Emusk-007 with inflight autorefill option? 8-)

No, just relying on peasants to fill it up.
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Post by Kendra »


Trump with a special New Year’s message to us, and to Mitch McConnell and Elaine Chao.



Trump takes a few questions tonight heading into his New Year’s Eve party. First question is about Desantis, which he seems to duck. At the end he says something about the border of Russia and Ukraine which makes no sense.
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Post by AndyinPA »

He's sick. Seriously.
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Post by RTH10260 »

This seems to be the event mentioned above
Trump's New Year's Eve 'media availability' was a nothing-burger that no cable news stations carried

Sarah K. Burris
December 31, 2022

Donald Trump invited the media for a moment he called "media availability" at Mar-a-Lago ahead of the country club's annual New Year's Eve celebration. When the time came, however, Trump spoke for fewer than five minutes and not on cable news stations covering it, including allies like Newsmax and Fox.

It was reminiscent of Trump's "big announcement" that ended up being a ploy for his own personal trading cards he was selling for $99.

The video appeared on the front page of the conservative hotspot Rumble. At first, even with the top audio levels, Trump could only narrowly be heard.

He began by wishing the media a "Happy New Year," despite his hate for them. He then asked if there were any questions. He attacked inflation as "destroying our country," and made an inaudible comment about Ukraine and Russia. Reporters asked questions like, "Would you support a national abortion ban," which he refused to answer.

He rambled on about the "disgrace" of the Justice Department and the "weaponizing" of the FBI before he decided to wander into the event. When another asked how the 2024 campaign was going, he claimed it was, "very good," despite not having any events or rallies of his own around the country after his announcement.

New York Times reporter Peter Baker told MSNBC earlier on Saturday that Trump's call for media availability was a desperate cry for attention.



https://www.rawstory.com/trump-new-years-eve-message/
See the video below at the 32-minute mark or at the link here (within the full New Years celebration at MaL):
► Show Spoiler
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Post by raison de arizona »

E7B9260F-08DA-4B00-B6C9-4046BE517BA8.png
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Post by pipistrelle »

Ted Nugent, that unparalleled tax attorney and CPA/chartered accountant.
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Post by Frater I*I »

pipistrelle wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 1:57 pm Ted Nugent, that unparalleled tax attorney and CPA/chartered accountant.
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