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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

These people are weird, but we like to find out what weird people are doing and thinking. It's a hobby.
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RVInit
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2501

Post by RVInit »

Patagoniagirl wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:31 am The "clueless dick" SHOT and KILLED two people. I am continuing to be curious about your obsession with your boy Kyle. Why him? Why this case?
This same person trolled the thread during the entire trial with his fanboy interpretations. I saw the whole trial and would have had no problem convicting the sniveling. worthless, killer.
There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2502

Post by Dave from down under »

:yeahthat:
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#2503

Post by Maybenaut »

RVInit wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:34 am
Suranis wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:54 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:37 pm

It shouldn’t come as any surprise that many people around here still think, despite the verdict, that Rittenhouse is guilty of wrongdoing and is, in fact, culpable.

The jury has spoken, so Rittenhouse gets to walk around a free man. But people are not required to agree with the verdict.
O J Simpson says hi.
As do Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman. Rittenhouse would have been found guilty if he'd been tried in some jurisdictions, and, like Zimmerman, was lucky enough to be tried in a place by a jury predisposed to thinking it's OK to kill "the other".
I think Zimmerman was saved by the stand-your-ground law. The judge instructed the jury in accordance with that law, and the jury didn’t really have any choice but to acquit.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2504

Post by RVInit »

Stand Your Ground was not used in the Zimmerman case. The judge cannot and did not give "Stand Your Ground" instructions to the jury as long as the defense did not use that specific get out of prosecution free card. The jury apparently believed Zimmerman was using just plain and simple "self defense". It's clear that after spending several minutes attempting to get Zimmerman to quit following him, Trayvon did at some point get into an altercation with Zimmerman. I believe when he was face to face with the man holding a gun, Trayvon attempted to save himself from being shot. At that point why would you turn your back on someone who admitted on tape that he never identified himself, never explained to Trayvon why he was following him, never in fact even said one word to Trayvon. He simply stood there with the gun. Of COURSE Trayvon tried to do something to save himself.

I lived not three miles away from where Trayvon was shot, at the very time he was shot. I understand my neighbors who were on that jury. Trayvon's family never stood a chance of getting justice.
There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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#2505

Post by neonzx »

RVInit wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:30 am Stand Your Ground was not used in the Zimmerman case. The judge cannot and did not give "Stand Your Ground" instructions to the jury as long as the defense did not use that specific get out of prosecution free card. The jury apparently believed Zimmerman was using just plain and simple "self defense". It's clear that after spending several minutes attempting to get Zimmerman to quit following him, Trayvon did at some point get into an altercation with Zimmerman. I believe when he was face to face with the man holding a gun, Trayvon attempted to save himself from being shot. At that point why would you turn your back on someone who admitted on tape that he never identified himself, never explained to Trayvon why he was following him, never in fact even said one word to Trayvon. He simply stood there with the gun. Of COURSE Trayvon tried to do something to save himself.

I lived not three miles away from where Trayvon was shot, at the very time he was shot. I understand my neighbors who were on that jury. Trayvon's family never stood a chance of getting justice.
But Trayvon was a threat. With a watermelon flavored Arizona ice-tea and a pack of Skittles. Scary. That would send any normal person into a panic attack.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2506

Post by RVInit »

neonzx wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:03 am
RVInit wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:30 am Stand Your Ground was not used in the Zimmerman case. The judge cannot and did not give "Stand Your Ground" instructions to the jury as long as the defense did not use that specific get out of prosecution free card. The jury apparently believed Zimmerman was using just plain and simple "self defense". It's clear that after spending several minutes attempting to get Zimmerman to quit following him, Trayvon did at some point get into an altercation with Zimmerman. I believe when he was face to face with the man holding a gun, Trayvon attempted to save himself from being shot. At that point why would you turn your back on someone who admitted on tape that he never identified himself, never explained to Trayvon why he was following him, never in fact even said one word to Trayvon. He simply stood there with the gun. Of COURSE Trayvon tried to do something to save himself.

I lived not three miles away from where Trayvon was shot, at the very time he was shot. I understand my neighbors who were on that jury. Trayvon's family never stood a chance of getting justice.
But Trayvon was a threat. With a watermelon flavored Arizona ice-tea and a pack of Skittles. Scary. That would send any normal person into a panic attack.
These lily white conservatives that surround me are scared of their own shadow, so yeah, Trayvon, black teenager with candy and a drink walking on a sidewalk would have scared the bejeezus out of poor George, safe in his truck and packing a loaded weapon.
There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2507

Post by bob »

Dave from down under wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:52 am
RVInit wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:49 am This same person trolled the thread during the entire trial with his fanboy interpretations.
:yeahthat:
I have no idea why we're now again being trolled.

But speaking of trolls:
Image ImageImage
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2508

Post by Maybenaut »

RVInit wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:30 am Stand Your Ground was not used in the Zimmerman case. The judge cannot and did not give "Stand Your Ground" instructions to the jury as long as the defense did not use that specific get out of prosecution free card.
Sorry, but that’s just wrong. First of all, the judge is required to instruct the jury in accordance with the law even if the defense doesn’t ask for it (there are sometimes issues with waiver, but most judges will err on the side of caution). I do recall that the defense didn’t argue stand your ground, but I don’t recall whether they asked for the instruction.

But whether they asked or not, the judge did give the stand your ground instruction. Here’s what he instructed:
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
I watched most of the trial. I knew as soon as the judge gave the instruction he’d be acquitted.

Here’s a link to the fill jury instruction.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... ctions.pdf
Edit: Also, one of the jurors told Anderson Cooper that it mattered in the deliberations:
COOPER: Because of the only, the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt neither applied?

JUROR: Right. Well, because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.
https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/acd/da ... segment/01
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2509

Post by RVInit »

Sorry Maybenaut. I got Zimm and the guy in Jacksonville mixed up, it was the guy in Jacksonville that did not get the Stand Your Ground thingy.

But my point still stands. I lived in the next door neighborhood, am well versed in the attitudes of my neighbors and new full well Zimmerman would be acquitted. It wouldn't have mattered a whit what the judge's instructions were. Trayvon clearly attempted to stand his ground, and use self defense against the man holding a gun in front of him, and there is no way these bozos will see it that way. It will always be the poor white guy with the loaded gun facing a black teenager was in fear of his life and HE is the one who needed to exert self defense. Trayvon apparently had no right to try to defend himself against a white man who admitted to having chased him first by truck, then on foot. No sirree. Poor helpless George just had to shoot the teen.
There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2510

Post by Maybenaut »

I don’t disagree with any of that. I was just making the point earlier that stand your ground saved Zimmerman. And it may have provided a “race-neutral” reason for doing so.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2511

Post by noblepa »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:21 pm I don’t disagree with any of that. I was just making the point earlier that stand your ground saved Zimmerman. And it may have provided a “race-neutral” reason pretense for doing so.
FIFY
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2512

Post by Suranis »

bob wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:59 am I have no idea why we're now again being trolled.

But speaking of trolls:
https://twitter.com/ThisIsKyleR/status/ ... 7235412993
Does not have the blue checkmark of $8, so might not be actually the guy runnung his twitter him.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2513

Post by Maybenaut »

noblepa wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:35 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:21 pm I don’t disagree with any of that. I was just making the point earlier that stand your ground saved Zimmerman. And it may have provided a “race-neutral” reason pretense for doing so.
FIFY
Yes. That is what I was trying to say. Thanks :lol:
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2514

Post by noblepa »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:04 pm
noblepa wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:35 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:21 pm I don’t disagree with any of that. I was just making the point earlier that stand your ground saved Zimmerman. And it may have provided a “race-neutral” reason pretense for doing so.
FIFY
Yes. That is what I was trying to say. Thanks :lol:
And, as we all know, in reality, the jury's verdict was anything but "race-neutral".
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2515

Post by RVInit »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:21 pm I don’t disagree with any of that. I was just making the point earlier that stand your ground saved Zimmerman. And it may have provided a “race-neutral” reason for doing so.
I apologize if I sounded argumentative. I forget that people can't see my face or tone when I type, and I tend to be direct and forget that also comes across as me arguing. Yes, the jury absolutely used the excuse of stand your ground/self defense. Except IMO they applied it to the wrong person in the encounter. I really wished I had received a jury summons for that one. I could have pointed out many inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story.

Sorry for the threadjack, too! I will quit posting about Zimmerman on this thread... :oopsy: :oopsy: :oopsy:
There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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#2516

Post by Dave from down under »

Not a thread Jack IMO

As the mentality that you are justified in hunting people down and claiming self defence just because you have a gun and they don’t applies equally.

Thankfully in the Albury case the attempt by the hunters to claim self defence failed*.


* McMichael and father Greg McMichael and neighbor William "Roddie" Bryan were all sentenced to life in prison. Travis and Greg McMichael, who were convicted of murdering Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia, have been sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2517

Post by andersweinstein »

Dave from down under wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:43 pm Not a thread Jack IMO

As the mentality that you are justified in hunting people down and claiming self defence just because you have a gun and they don’t applies equally.

Thankfully in the Albury case the attempt by the hunters to claim self defence failed*.
As I said above, I don't see any analogy between the Zimmerman or McMichael case and the Rittenhouse case. Rittenhouse didn't hunt anyone down. I don't think it was even any part of the prosecution's case to claim he "hunted down" anyone. Rittenhouse didn't instigate the confrontation in which he used self-defense.

Rittenhouse's testimony, witness testimony, all the video evidence -- this was all consistent with the idea that Rittenhouse came under a wholly unprovoked attack: A bad guy who was described as "hyperaggressive", committed crimes, is on video trying to start fights with the armed civilians, and had made specific threats to harm Rittenhouse per two witnesses, noticed him coming, ran to hide behind a car to jump him from behind as he was doing this innocuous task of going to put out a fire. That's crucial.

No one has to believe his testimony, of course. But I think people should acknowledge that the jury got a LOT of evidence consistent with it, very little to contradict it, so that it was strong enough to be the basis of their verdict. Or. to be precise, to justify a judgement that the prosecution failed to DISPROVE this theory beyond a reasonable doubt.

I have to say, jeez, It's kind of remarkable to me how many people here refuse to even acknowledge that Rittenhouse was ATTACKED.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2518

Post by Dave from down under »

Footage showed Kyle followed his first victim.

After shooting him 4 times (twice in the back) - self described Medic Kyle didn’t check to see if his victim could be saved.

No he fled and when confronted after killing his first victim he went on to kill another and maim a third.

His actions resulted in 2 dead and 1 wounded
Which makes him a hero to some.
And an example to others that they too may get away with killing people.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2519

Post by andersweinstein »

Dave from down under wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:24 pm Footage showed Kyle followed his first victim.
The defense appealed to the exact same footage as entirely consistent with their theory. So I don't think it is quite right to say it "showed" that he followed Rosenbaum. Only that it was consistent with that theory as well.

I don't think you ever see Rittenhouse acting as a vigilante earlier in the night: confronting people or trying to enforce order. There's a lot to show that wasn't what he was about. When he wandered out in the crowd it was always to look for people needing medical help. They also spoke of looking into fires. As I see it, it would be inconsistent with Rittenhouse's earlier behavior for him to suddenly decide to "hunt" someone. But it would be completely consistent with Rosenbaum's observed behavior to attack Rittenhouse.
Dave from down under wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:24 pm After shooting him 4 times (twice in the back) - self described Medic Kyle didn’t check to see if his victim could be saved.
That looks bad, yes but the reason given for that was that he was still in danger. Ziminski is on video urging the crowd to get him. A jury could reasonably accept that gave him good reason to get out of there.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2520

Post by Dave from down under »

Killer Kyle got away with it.

To far too many people that gives them encouragement that they too can get a gun and kill people and get away with it.

They may, like Kyle did, claim self Defence, but let’s be honest - when they choose to take a gun with them, then just like Kyle, they will be itching to pull that trigger…
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2521

Post by raison de arizona »

Dave from down under wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:12 pm Killer Kyle got away with it.

To far too many people that gives them encouragement that they too can get a gun and kill people and get away with it.

They may, like Kyle did, claim self Defence, but let’s be honest - when they choose to take a gun with them, then just like Kyle, they will be itching to pull that trigger…
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2522

Post by Dave from down under »

:yeahthat:
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2523

Post by Suranis »

When someone points out that the Video shows Kyle following the guy that one earlier claimed was trying to get away from, and your response was "well the defence looked at the same footage got Kyle off mumble mumble" it does not bode well for ones accuracy in interpretation.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2524

Post by andersweinstein »

Dave from down under wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:12 pm Killer Kyle got away with it.

To far too many people that gives them encouragement that they too can get a gun and kill people and get away with it.
They may, like Kyle did, claim self Defence, but let’s be honest - when they choose to take a gun with them, then just like Kyle, they will be itching to pull that trigger…
He wasn't the only one who went there with a gun. Ziminski had a gun and indeed pulled the trigger. Grosskreutz also went there as a medic who carried a gun (illegally) and his having it gave Rittenhouse reason to fear for his life and shoot him. Another never-identified member of the protest group fired shots in the air after the Rosenbaum shooting. On the previous night there were protestors openly carrying long guns who clashed a bit with police in an armored vehicle. There was the protestor who ostentatiously racked the slide of his pistol at armed men at the Ultimate. The police issued a warning saying (a bit hyperbolically, I think) tha there were more people out there with guns than without. Gun-friendly WI seems to want it to be a Wild West out there, and the debacle in Kenosha is what they get for it. But given that's what they want, the law of self-defense still applies.
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Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

#2525

Post by Dave from down under »

Too many people who should never be allowed near a gun.
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