Trump's Classified Docs Theft: Mar-A-Lago, FBI Subpoenas, Searches & Seizures - DOJ, Garland, GOP Madness - Spy Hard

[chancery]

Bradley P. Moss
@BradMossEsq
With yet another court filing, it is increasingly clear there is no evidence of Trump's alleged "standing declassification order", and no evidence that these particular classified records were ever declassified.

Andrew Weissmann
@AWeissmann
18 USC section 1001 makes it a crime to lie to a federal judge. Will Trump tell FLA court he had a blanket order declassifying everything (including nuclear capability docs)? I doubt it cause at bottom he’s scared as hell of accountability and jail.

Harry Litman
@harrylitman
Importantly, Trump doesn’t argue that he declassified material. Closest is this: “DOJ stance wrongly assumes that if a document has a classification marking, it remains classified in perpetuity.”

The quotation in the third tweet is from p. 4 of the parties' September 9 joint response filed on September 9. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 3.83.0.pdf

However, on the following page, Trump's lawyers dropped this footnote: "Plaintiff anticipates filing a deeper analysis of these issues in upcoming filings."

I take this sentence to mean that Trump's lawyers are working away in their bullshit factory, and that they might yet file something about declassification.

[p0rtia]

The "Hey, who's to say that Classified Dox remain Classified Dox Forever!" dodge was something clearly designed to create a problem where none exists (both for La Cannon and for the possibility of future delays). Plaintiffs are trying to turn the categorization of the documents into an endless debate about what is classified and what isn't, when the DOJ is just saying "See these docs that are marked "Classified" or "Top Secret" or "Secret"? We've put them all into a separate category for the purpose of discussing this Special Master crap."

Side note: It was La Cannon, in the earlier hearing, who made a point of making the DOJ say "marked as classified" rather than just "classified". So yay her, as this redounds in favor of the DOJ's request for a stay and for the future appeal. "Marked as" works great for the DOJ.

Remembering, of course, that none of the possible crimes outlined in the search order mention classification as an issue.

[Suranis]

I dunno if the DOJ is making this argument, but if you are stealing documents from the government, isn't it still stealing either they are classified or not? The documents were never his property as President, they were provided for his temporary use.

This wrangling about which were classified is just a distraction imo. It's important but avoids the central issue. He shouldnt have taken so much as a roll of toilet paper that wasn't his property.

[Slim Cognito]

Double glove, just to be sure.

I wouldn't touch him even with those enormous heavy rubber gloves that electricians use to work on live high-voltage wires.

I’d be happy to slap him with one of those thick leather gauntlet gloves falconers use.

[Frater I*I]

I’d be happy to slap him with one of those thick leather gauntlet gloves falconers use.

May I suggest that you upgrade that to chainmail...

[Slim Cognito]

Approved!

[RVInit]

So I read the 8 page joint filing nominating Special Masters and suggesting how to proceed.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/t ... 0579081632

I'm listening to this now, it's really good. Adding it to my list of podcasts. Thanks!

[p0rtia]

Somewhat hesitantly crossposted here from "former guy" thread.

Read the replies.



ETA: False alarm. He's off to his golf course.

[roadscholar]

I’d be happy to slap him with one of those thick leather gauntlet gloves falconers use.

May I suggest that you upgrade that to chainmail...

May I suggest something?

Gauntlet.jpg (331.86 KiB) Viewed 900 times

[keith]

I dunno if the DOJ is making this argument, but if you are stealing documents from the government, isn't it still stealing either they are classified or not? The documents were never his property as President, they were provided for his temporary use.

This wrangling about which were classified is just a distraction imo. It's important but avoids the central issue. He shouldnt have taken so much as a roll of toilet paper that wasn't his property.

- in SPADES.

I've been going around in circles with some deplorable on ATS, building up the PRATT* value.

He/She keeps going on and on about 'democrats claim this, democrats (it's always 'democrats', never DOJ or NARA) claim that' and I keep saying it doesn't matter whether a document is classified or not, whether it's subject to Executive Privilege or not. I end just about every rebuttal sentence with something like "You keep deflecting from the central point: it is THEFT."

And then they start up again at the beginning again. I kinda play with them a while, but I do get bored with it after a while.

*For those who came in late, PRATT = RationalWiki: Point Refuted A Thousand Times

[Dr. Ken]

This is gonna make heads explode

[Slim Cognito]

I'm putting this here instead of the Link Request thread because it may be relevant today. I can't tell bc I can't see the date of the article. If someone could please oblige me.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/12/us/p ... d=tw-share

Trump Asks Judge to Keep Blocking F.B.I. From Working With Seized Classified Files

[MN-Skeptic]

Here's a tweet with a link to Trump's lawyers' response to the DOJ.

[raison de arizona]

I'm putting this here instead of the Link Request thread because it may be relevant today. I can't tell bc I can't see the date of the article. If someone could please oblige me.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/12/us/p ... d=tw-share

Trump Asks Judge to Keep Blocking F.B.I. From Working With Seized Classified Files

gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/12/us/p ... =share-url

[Foggy]

[Suranis]

I'm putting this here instead of the Link Request thread because it may be relevant today. I can't tell bc I can't see the date of the article. If someone could please oblige me.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/12/us/p ... d=tw-share

Trump Asks Judge to Keep Blocking F.B.I. From Working With Seized Classified Files

You can see the date of the article in the link after the nytimes . com bit.

[RTH10260]

as above

Trump Asks Judge to Keep Blocking F.B.I. From Working With Seized Classified Files
It was the latest salvo in a court fight over a special master, which has stalled an investigation into the former president’s hoarding of government documents.


By Alan Feuer and Charlie Savage
Sept. 12, 2022 Updated 11:40 a.m. ET

Lawyers for former President Donald J. Trump asked a federal judge on Monday to deny the Justice Department’s request to immediately restart a key part of its criminal investigation into his hoarding of sensitive government documents at his residence in Florida.

Renewing their request for an expansive independent review of records seized from Mr. Trump, the former president’s legal team argued that seized records marked as classified should remain off limits to the F.B.I. and prosecutors. They asked the judge, Aileen M. Cannon, to maintain her order barring agents from using any of the materials taken from his estate, Mar-a-Lago, until a so-called special master has vetted all of them.

The 21-page filing was an aggressive rebuke of the Justice Department’s broader inquiry into whether Mr. Trump or his aides illegally kept national security secrets at the property or obstructed the government’s repeated attempts to retrieve the materials. It played down the criminal inquiry as a “storage dispute” and insinuated that officials may have leaked information about the contents of the files.

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[Slim Cognito]

They expect the inspection to take "three months," just long enough for the midterm elections to pass after which he can announce his candidacy, which, he thinks and he's prolly right, will keep him from being indicted.

[sugar magnolia]

Time for the DOJ to start investigating and indicting everyone in the known universe. Start with the lawyer who signed the "we didn't find anything" form and go from there. Keep them all so busy and broke they can't do anything but look for lawyers who will take their cases.

[Foggy]

Yeah, the DOJ has a lot of options.

[Foggy]

Did Trump’s vaunted legal wizards identify EVEN ONE DOCUMENT that was marked "classified" that he now claims he declassified? Even one little document fact that might support their horseshit?

No, they simply say he had "the right" to declassify, without acknowledging the procedures.

You see in the photo the failing NY Times showed, that one document (top left, bottom right, whatever, but identify the damn thing) that's marked "TOP SECRET - CLASSIFIED - DO NOT THROW KETCHUP ON THIS"? Well, ma'am, President Trump declassified that one on June 18, 2019.

Oh wait, there are no alleged facts like that.

Hmm.

[RVInit]

He’s trying to keep the judge believing the classification is in question so that’s why the special master has to look at them and make that determination. The idiot judge is already on board with the idea of it being in question, she admonished the DOJ previously that they should properly be referred to as documents containing classified marking. So he will get his way.

[Gregg]

Trump's legal team didn't initially dispute in court that they were classified until Judge Karen called them "Marked Classified" and now they've taken that and ran with it. "None of them are classified, just because they're MARKED classified means nothing!"

[New Turtle]

The search warrant didn't specify classified either, just documents marked classified.

[p0rtia]

So...I'm reading the "aggressive rebuke."

So far, those aren't the first words that come to mind as an accurate characterization. Sort of like describing an Orly Taitz filing as a "taking a forthright stand for democracy."

I mean seriously, normalizing this bullying, condescending pack of lies as a viable position in the real world is digusting.