Karl Koenigs

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Azastan
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6376

Post by Azastan »

scirreeve wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:14 pm
Updated Karl schedule to include his Ozaukee court date.
Capture.JPG
Thank you!

Perhaps Rachel can smuggle in a Santa suit for Kap'n Karl, since he is going to need a magic sleigh to get him to all these court dates on time.

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6377

Post by Uninformed »

Kkkarl's fake detention is just a cover for infiltrating the lefty coup plotters in Chicago:

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6378

Post by Sam the Centipede »

:-D Orlylicious: you'll find any excuse to introduce :fiesta: a show tune :fiesta: into a discussion, won't you?! :bighug:

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6379

Post by fierceredpanda »

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:32 pm
So the good Kraptain has been a guest of the counties for 14 days now and has accumulated $10,000+ bail requirements. Now I guess my next question is has the bail been paid at the other counties or have they just been passing him down the line? It is interesting that no one seems to have stepped up to bail him out. Must just make the Kraptain feel all warm and cuddly from all the love.
I did some checking into Karl's bond status so far. For the education of all concerned, a cash bond showing up as "signed" means only that the defendant has signed the acknowledgement of the conditions of bond. Payment of the full amount of a cash bond appears as "Actual bond posted" or something similar. (Caveat: Some county clerks of courts don't update CCAP as expeditiously as they could, so there's no guarantee this is 100% accurate.)

Marinette 17CT89: $2,500 cash bond not yet posted
Dodge 17CT237: $2,500 cash bond not yet posted
Ozaukee 17CM338: $5,000 cash bond not yet posted
Marinette 19CM120: Bond TBD at initial appearance 1/27/20.

So, to answer ND's question, Karl has been getting the guided tour of a bunch of county jails so far. Since he has no other open cases, he should remain in Ozaukee (where he is now) until his bond gets paid. Obviously, it is not up to him if he gets transported to Dodge or Marinette for his scheduled hearings. Sometimes, for these types of cases (i.e., misdemeanor CM files and traffic CT files), even though the judge and district attorney know full well that the defendant is in custody in another county, they won't bother doing a writ or an order to transport, because transporting defendants in custody from one jail to another is rather expensive. They'll check VINE and find out the defendant is sitting somewhere else on a cash bond, and basically hold the case in abeyance. If he isn't out in time to make the 1/27/20 initial appearance in Marinette, Marinette will just issue a warrant. Then even if he posts his bond in Ozaukee or Dodge, he wouldn't be released from custody, but instead he would be transported to Marinette to clear that warrant.

Long story short, he's got $10,000 worth of bond to post plus whatever eventually gets set by Marinette on that 19CM120 file. If he's able to post on the other three files before 1/27, he has to make that summons appearance in Marinette or a warrant will issue, and then he'll have to deal with that warrant before he could be released from custody.
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6380

Post by pipistrelle »

Was he going home for the holidays? Doesn't he have a bunch of adult children? I'm surprised they haven't bailed him out yet.

Also it doesn't look like he has any DWI/DUI or whatever Wisconsin calls it. That surprises me. That to me is what makes him a danger to others.

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6381

Post by ZekeB »

You'd think this would be biggliest enough news for those small town newspapers to at least make a note of his "capture." Four small counties. OTOH many of those small local papers aren't online.
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6382

Post by pipistrelle »

ZekeB wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:00 am
You'd think this would be biggliest enough news for those small town newspapers to at least make a note of his "capture." Four small counties. OTOH many of those small local papers aren't online.
I recall a local reporter wrote a good-sized article about his saintly hurricane relief mission to Florida (before he left and it went bad). Now I can't find it anymore.
I did find this from the same misadventure.
https://steemit.com/freedom/@nathanpiet ... 223243598z

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6383

Post by fierceredpanda »

pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:53 am
Was he going home for the holidays? Doesn't he have a bunch of adult children? I'm surprised they haven't bailed him out yet.

Also it doesn't look like he has any DWI/DUI or whatever Wisconsin calls it. That surprises me. That to me is what makes him a danger to others.
Do his children live in WI? Posting bond when you're not actually able to go to the jail with cash, a check, or a card of some sort is basically impossible. Also, children bailing out parents is kind of messed up, although lately I'm on a run of clients getting bailed out by mommy and daddy, and then promptly getting into even more trouble, so I'm highly-cynical on this point at the moment. Posting bond is a questionable investment under the best of circumstances. Also, the DAs in some counties (especially Shawano County, a/k/a, "The Land the Constitution Forgot") like to demand as part of a plea bargain that the defendant accede to a monetary fine that just so happens (total coincidence, we swear!) to equal the amount of any cash bond posted. Is it a blatant cash-grab by money grubbing prosecutors? Hell yes. Does it screw defendant who have complied with bond conditions for months or even years or their families out of bond money they expected to get back at the conclusion of the case? Also yes. Do judges go along with it? Every goddamn time.

We call drunk driving OWI (Operating While Intoxicated) in Wisconsin, and we are also the only state in the country where 1st offense OWI (so long as there are no injuries and there isn't a minor child in the vehicle) is not a crime, it is merely a forfeiture action, akin to a traffic ticket. Mind you, it's a forfeiture for which your car insurer will jack your premium through the roof, but still. Most people from other states are appalled when they hear this, but it's what you get in a state where the Tavern League is considered to be the most powerful political lobby around. I'm more sanguine about it, because cases with minors or injuries are excluded, and I have an "everybody gets one" mindset on this. My cautionary tale is that I have driven when I knew full well I was over the limit exactly once in my life (I was 21 at the time), and had the good fortune to make it home without incident. I would have been dead-to-rights, and I can hardly wish for someone less fortunate than I as far as getting caught to have their life turned upside down with a criminal conviction just because of the happenstance of police patrol patterns. A lot of people in Wisconsin pick up first offenses and never get another one, and I kind of like the forfeiture as a "go and sin no more" response to a true first offense.
For completeness, some additional Wisconsin OWI oddities: Prior OWI-1st or related offenses (even in other states) count as a first offense in Wisconsin, but if you go 7 years without accumulating a second offense, for Wisconsin's purposes your count resets to 0, and any subsequent offense would be counted as a first offense. But you only get that reset once in your life, and after that, any subsequent offense is counted properly as a third offense, which is a phenomena we in the defense bar refer to as 1-1-3. OWI-2nd and OWI-3rd in Wisconsin are traffic misdemeanors with complex guidelines systems for sentencing based upon BAC level and whether the defendant's driving behavior was aggravated or mitigated, but they also carry nominal mandatory minimums to ensure well-heeled defendants don't escape jail time altogether. (That used to happen a lot, particularly in counties where the elected DA would accept bribes from rich people to make their OWIs go away - google the name Joe Paulus, nickname "Hollywood Joe," for details. He was Winnebago County DA ages ago and tipped to be a top contender for US Attorney for the Eastern District of Wisconsin at some point. Instead he got to participate in the federal criminal justice system in a different way: As a defendant and eventual guest of the Bureau of Prisons on federal corruption charges.)

Unlike a lot of my colleagues in the criminal and traffic defense bar, I frequently turn down representations of defendants in OWI-1st cases, because I don't really see what value I can offer. Unless it's the one-in-a-million OWI where the cop totally blew it and the case gets dismissed, the defendant is going to end up paying a hefty fine plus costs, and can look forward to his or her auto insurance premium doubling or tripling. In order to make such a representation make sense from a business standpoint, I need to charge the client at least $1,000. Maybe a good lawyer can convince the judge to come down a couple hundred dollars on the fine, but that's as good as it gets unless you have a miracle case. I don't think it makes much sense to hire a lawyer for $1,000+ in order to shave a couple hundred off the fines.
Sorry for the wall of text.
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6384

Post by fierceredpanda »

ZekeB wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:00 am
You'd think this would be biggliest enough news for those small town newspapers to at least make a note of his "capture." Four small counties. OTOH many of those small local papers aren't online.
Local journalism in Wisconsin is pathetic. Maybe Karl's Ozaukee County adventures would turn up in the Metro section of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, but Dodge and Marinette are in dead-zones where the only court activities that show up in the papers anywhere are homicides, huge drug conspiracies, and the like. I am of two minds about such things. As a criminal defense lawyer who hates and mistrusts journalists, I don't mind this. As a sometime political consultant who has struggled to get candidates noticed by local reporters in order to raise their profile, I find it intensely frustrating.
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6385

Post by Northland10 »

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:13 am
:-D Orlylicious: you'll find any excuse to introduce :fiesta: a show tune :fiesta: into a discussion, won't you?! :bighug:
Well, ya know.. it's rather necessary, because...
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6386

Post by pipistrelle »

fierceredpanda wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:21 am
pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:53 am
Was he going home for the holidays? Doesn't he have a bunch of adult children? I'm surprised they haven't bailed him out yet.

Also it doesn't look like he has any DWI/DUI or whatever Wisconsin calls it. That surprises me. That to me is what makes him a danger to others.
Do his children live in WI? Posting bond when you're not actually able to go to the jail with cash, a check, or a card of some sort is basically impossible. Also, children bailing out parents is kind of messed up, although lately I'm on a run of clients getting bailed out by mommy and daddy, and then promptly getting into even more trouble, so I'm highly-cynical on this point at the moment.
I thought he had some in the general Milwaukee-ish area.

I had a great relationship with my dad, who like many of his generation aged considerably in his 50s and 60s, and I would have bailed him out instantly. That said, he was a smart man who never would have ended up in the pokey so there's that.

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6387

Post by Foggy »

When I was 18 and left home the day after I graduated from high school, my parents had every right to expect that I'd spend half my life behind bars.


But I fooled 'em. :mrgreen:
For more information, read it again.

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6388

Post by Notorial Dissent »

So Karl has $10K in bonds against him that need to be paid if he wants out. We certainly know none of his "friends" or AMMFarce pretendies have that kind of free cash. His ex's certainly aren't going to bail him out, and it looks like the kids won't be either. I have to say with Karl's bail jumping proclivities he's NOT a good candidate any way. I don't know how they do it in WI, but around here when they do that kind of bond you usually figure that is what the court is going to hit them with, and when they get to court the bond just gets forfeited. I 'd say things are not looking cheery for the Kraptain.

Thanks ever so much Panda commentary and info greatly appreciated.
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6389

Post by fierceredpanda »

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:48 am
So Karl has $10K in bonds against him that need to be paid if he wants out. We certainly know none of his "friends" or AMMFarce pretendies have that kind of free cash. His ex's certainly aren't going to bail him out, and it looks like the kids won't be either. I have to say with Karl's bail jumping proclivities he's NOT a good candidate any way. I don't know how they do it in WI, but around here when they do that kind of bond you usually figure that is what the court is going to hit them with, and when they get to court the bond just gets forfeited. I 'd say things are not looking cheery for the Kraptain.

Thanks ever so much Panda commentary and info greatly appreciated.
Happy to help.

As to Karl's bond, in ordinary circumstances, getting such high cash bonds on such (relatively) minor charges would be unheard of. Chapter 969 of the Wisconsin Statutes - appropriately entitled "Bail and Other Conditions of Release" - actually tilts the scale very heavily in favor of the defendant's release pretrial. All defendants are entitled to a presumption of release under reasonable conditions pending trial, i.e., a bail they can actually afford. This is the classic fallback position for defense lawyers at an initial appearance when the DA is metaphorically pounding the table for the court to set a high cash bond, and it looks like the judge or court commissioner is in such a mood as to oblige them. (Obviously, knowing your audience here is key. Every judicial official has their own peculiarities about which parts of Chapter 969 they focus on the most.)

However, 969.01(4) lists a number of factors can cancel out that presumption and justify cash bonds even in misdemeanor cases, with the proviso that 969.02(8) specifies that under no circumstances can bond in misdemeanor cases exceed the maximum potential fine for the offenses charged. Karl may wish to pay attention to these factors, because a number of them are relevant to his situation:
(4) Considerations in setting conditions of release. If bail is imposed, it shall be only in the amount found necessary to assure the appearance of the defendant. Conditions of release, other than monetary conditions, may be imposed for the purpose of protecting members of the community from serious bodily harm or preventing intimidation of witnesses. Proper considerations in determining whether to release the defendant without bail, fixing a reasonable amount of bail or imposing other reasonable conditions of release are: the ability of the arrested person to give bail, the nature, number and gravity of the offenses and the potential penalty the defendant faces, whether the alleged acts were violent in nature, the defendant's prior record of criminal convictions and delinquency adjudications, if any, the character, health, residence and reputation of the defendant, the character and strength of the evidence which has been presented to the judge, whether the defendant is currently on probation, extended supervision or parole, whether the defendant is already on bail or subject to other release conditions in other pending cases, whether the defendant has been bound over for trial after a preliminary examination, whether the defendant has in the past forfeited bail or violated a condition of release or was a fugitive from justice at the time of arrest, and the policy against unnecessary detention of the defendant's pending trial.
If nothing else, I want to drive home my belief that Wisconsin courts are responding appropriately to Karl's devil-may-care attitude towards them. If any of my clients were charged with the same sort of offenses (but minus the warrants and time spent as a fugitive) and received cash bonds totaling even a fifth of what Karl is dealing with, I would be raising holy hell with the courts about it. But when you have a defendant who went on the lam from cases, albeit minor ones, in multiple counties for a very significant period of time, and publicly flaunted his fugitive status on social media, this is the result you can expect.
"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple; the smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton


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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6390

Post by Notorial Dissent »

I agree, I think they have acted very reasonably. Karl has proven REPEATEDLY that he doesn't play by the rules and certainly doesn't abide by bail conditions, so the only alternative is either jail him or high bail. I have to say that my opinion that if they really want him in court they are going to have jail him til court. He has blown off every bail he has paid so far so there we are. I have to also say that I take dwi VERY seriously and their policy there I don't agree with. One is too many.
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6391

Post by Sam the Centipede »

fierceredpanda wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:21 am
We call drunk driving OWI (Operating While Intoxicated) in Wisconsin, ...
:fingerwag: 'Fraid that's not good enough for the Konstitushunal Kraptain. He won't recognize the charge (and therefore will arrest the judge and prosecutor and sue for pootillions of gold doubloons, you know the form).

Karl's charge must be amended to TWI (Traveling While Intoxicated).

Always happy to help the criminal bar. ;)

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6392

Post by Orlylicious »

Panda, you're awesome. If he pays all the cash bonds, will they let him out? I mean, he's in for Bail Jumping... would they really let him run away again? What's your prediction, will he be enjoying Christmas dinner and New Year's Eve in jail?

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6393

Post by ZekeB »

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:17 am
Karl's charge must be amended to TWI (Traveling While Intoxicated).

Always happy to help the criminal bar. ;)
But you have a biblical right to travel, am I right? You also have a biblical right to drink (according to some churches). Karl is exercising his rights to the fullest.
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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6394

Post by Notorial Dissent »

ZekeB wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:31 am
Sam the Centipede wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:17 am
Karl's charge must be amended to TWI (Traveling While Intoxicated).

Always happy to help the criminal bar. ;)
But you have a biblical right to travel, am I right? You also have a biblical right to drink (according to some churches). Karl is exercising his rights to the fullest.
And often.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6395

Post by fierceredpanda »

Orlylicious wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:29 am
Panda, you're awesome. If he pays all the cash bonds, will they let him out? I mean, he's in for Bail Jumping... would they really let him run away again? What's your prediction, will he be enjoying Christmas dinner and New Year's Eve in jail?

I humbly nominate Panda to receive Fogbow's highest award, the Hero of Fogbow Labor. :dance:
Thanks, Orlylicious! I would gladly accept said award and display it ostentatiously everywhere I go. I am on my way to fulfilling my secret dream of becoming the Leonid Brezhnev/Idi Amin/David Clarke of the Fogbow.

:bwaha:

(Seriously, if there exists a way to put a tiny little medal emoji in my signature bar, I'm just such an egomaniac that I would do it.)

On an actually serious note, if he pays the bonds, he walks. Wisconsin law expressly forbids setting bond in misdemeanor cases higher than the maximum fine, and the pretrial detention process (i.e., remaining in custody without bond) set out in Wis.Stats. 969.035 is expressly reserved for violent crimes like homicide, attempted homicide, and sexual assault. If Karl is willing to keep pissing away money in the form of forfeited cash bonds, and racking up new misdemeanor bail jumping charges, as long as he can find suckers willing to post the bonds, he gets out. He hasn't been convicted of a thing yet.

I want to caution against reading the bail jumping charge too heavily. While it is a crime that courts take seriously - after all, it stems from express defiance of a court's order - it is still a Class A misdemeanor, with a maximum penalty of 9 months in jail and/or a fine of up to $10,000. Every day, I deal with people who get charged with it because they were drug addicts who did not flip a switch and stop using drugs when they were charged with possession and signed a bond with conditions including no new law violations and absolute sobriety. Each of those cases is a travesty, and I am not so eager to see Karl get what's coming to him that I will forget how that charge is brought against people who violate their bond because they didn't will themselves out of addiction because a judge or court commissioner ordered them to.

Of course it sucks that Karl very easily could raise the money and go on the lam again. The same is true of the QAnon supporter who chose to threaten one of the judges in my county and then managed to raise a $100,000 cash bond from his supporters on the internet in addition to whatever he's paying his top-drawer defense attorney. But Wisconsin (mercifully) is not a police state. I don't want the State to have the authority to just hold anyone it wants in custody pending trial. I'm not by any means defending the existing system as perfect (don't get me started on some bond conditions in specific types of cases!), but if the price we pay for having laws that say courts are supposed to reserve detention without bond for those accused of the gravest of crimes is that Karl will be able to buy his way out again on relatively minor charges, then I say it's a price worth paying.

Also, take heart in this: If he walks this time, not only will all his bonds potentially be forfeited, but each of the counties could bring one additional count of bail jumping for each current file in that county, each carrying a maximum potential bond of $10,000. If he walks on these four cases, he could easily be looking at three new files with four total counts of misdemeanor bail jumping and a total bond of $40,000. This is what tends to put a stop to recurrent bail jumpers. It isn't that they suddenly reform themselves or decide to face the music; it just gets prohibitively expensive to keep running.
"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple; the smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton


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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6396

Post by scirreeve »

pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:53 am
Was he going home for the holidays? Doesn't he have a bunch of adult children? I'm surprised they haven't bailed him out yet.
His 2 youngest are college students so probably don't have the resources to help him out. Last I heard his daughter lived in California. His 2 older sons live in the area (1 in Marinette, the other in a town called Little Suamico). I don't know anything about their relationships with Karl.

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6397

Post by DejaMoo »

pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:53 am
Doesn't he have a bunch of adult children? I'm surprised they haven't bailed him out yet.
I'm not. With his history, it'd be throwing good money after bad. And probably money they can't afford to throw away. They certainly couldn't expect him to make good on it.
I had to bail out a person once - one of my BILs. He hadn't come home from work, and I'd set off on a search while my sisters made phone calls. I found his car parked in a strip mall that had an empty field behind it and was sure I was gonna find his body back there, until a group of guys told me he'd been pulled over and thrown in a squad car. Problem was, the location was at the border of two cities, so we had three PDs to phone, including the county sheriff.

Anyhow, once we found out where he was being held, and for what (a warrant for unpaid parking tickets), I showed up with fifty bucks cash. Cuz, parking tickets, y'know? The bail couldn't be that much, right? And this was at night, pre-internet, pre-easy-access-to-cash days.

They set the bail at $5000.00. I had to phone bail bond companies and put it on my credit card. And the bondswoman tried really hard to talk me out of posting his bail, based on experience. I insisted, so we did the deed and bailed him out. And once he was in the back seat of my car and we were headed home, I turned around and offered him a turkey sandwich my mom'd made for him. He burst into tears. Just a couple hours in a holding cell had traumatized the heck out of him.

And the parking tickets? Turned out he had a few thousand dollars worth. He'd been parking in a pay lot every day without paying, and just threw each day's ticket in his back seat. What. A. Moron. But he did pay me back.
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: Karl Koenigs

#6398

Post by woodworker »

fierceredpanda wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:00 am
Orlylicious wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:29 am
Panda, you're awesome. If he pays all the cash bonds, will they let him out? I mean, he's in for Bail Jumping... would they really let him run away again? What's your prediction, will he be enjoying Christmas dinner and New Year's Eve in jail?

I humbly nominate Panda to receive Fogbow's highest award, the Hero of Fogbow Labor. :dance:
Thanks, Orlylicious! I would gladly accept said award and display it ostentatiously everywhere I go. I am on my way to fulfilling my secret dream of becoming the Leonid Brezhnev/Idi Amin/David Clarke of the Fogbow.

:bwaha:

(Seriously, if there exists a way to put a tiny little medal emoji in my signature bar, I'm just such an egomaniac that I would do it.)

On an actually serious note, if he pays the bonds, he walks. Wisconsin law expressly forbids setting bond in misdemeanor cases higher than the maximum fine, and the pretrial detention process (i.e., remaining in custody without bond) set out in Wis.Stats. 969.035 is expressly reserved for violent crimes like homicide, attempted homicide, and sexual assault. If Karl is willing to keep pissing away money in the form of forfeited cash bonds, and racking up new misdemeanor bail jumping charges, as long as he can find suckers willing to post the bonds, he gets out. He hasn't been convicted of a thing yet.

I want to caution against reading the bail jumping charge too heavily. While it is a crime that courts take seriously - after all, it stems from express defiance of a court's order - it is still a Class A misdemeanor, with a maximum penalty of 9 months in jail and/or a fine of up to $10,000. Every day, I deal with people who get charged with it because they were drug addicts who did not flip a switch and stop using drugs when they were charged with possession and signed a bond with conditions including no new law violations and absolute sobriety. Each of those cases is a travesty, and I am not so eager to see Karl get what's coming to him that I will forget how that charge is brought against people who violate their bond because they didn't will themselves out of addiction because a judge or court commissioner ordered them to.

Of course it sucks that Karl very easily could raise the money and go on the lam again. The same is true of the QAnon supporter who chose to threaten one of the judges in my county and then managed to raise a $100,000 cash bond from his supporters on the internet in addition to whatever he's paying his top-drawer defense attorney. But Wisconsin (mercifully) is not a police state. I don't want the State to have the authority to just hold anyone it wants in custody pending trial. I'm not by any means defending the existing system as perfect (don't get me started on some bond conditions in specific types of cases!), but if the price we pay for having laws that say courts are supposed to reserve detention without bond for those accused of the gravest of crimes is that Karl will be able to buy his way out again on relatively minor charges, then I say it's a price worth paying.

Also, take heart in this: If he walks this time, not only will all his bonds potentially be forfeited, but each of the counties could bring one additional count of bail jumping for each current file in that county, each carrying a maximum potential bond of $10,000. If he walks on these four cases, he could easily be looking at three new files with four total counts of misdemeanor bail jumping and a total bond of $40,000. This is what tends to put a stop to recurrent bail jumpers. It isn't that they suddenly reform themselves or decide to face the music; it just gets prohibitively expensive to keep running.
Thanks for your most excellent explanations and analysis. Much much appreciated.
bring out the tumbrils -- lots of them.

Grumpy Old Guy
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Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:24 am
Occupation: Retired, unemployed, never a lawyer

Re: Karl Koenigs

#6399

Post by Grumpy Old Guy »

scirreeve wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:36 am
pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:53 am
Was he going home for the holidays? Doesn't he have a bunch of adult children? I'm surprised they haven't bailed him out yet.
His 2 youngest are college students so probably don't have the resources to help him out. Last I heard his daughter lived in California. His 2 older sons live in the area (1 in Marinette, the other in a town called Little Suamico). I don't know anything about their relationships with Karl.
I suspect any family members inclined to help him out have done the same math as Fiercered and reached the same bail amounts. They also realize that Karl and the money would be soon gone.

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ZekeB
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:07 pm
Location: Northwest part of Semi Blue State

Re: Karl Koenigs

#6400

Post by ZekeB »

This assumes that his offspring are all loyal to Daddy and don't give a hoot about Mommy. I know nothing about his ex, but I don't think she's the cause of that divorce.
Trump: Er hat eine größere Ente als ich.

Putin: Du bist kleiner als ich.

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