Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#151

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:49 pm

jmj wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:46 pm
Predictably, the dirt-digging on Avenatti's client has begun:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/ ... ser-845348
Julie Swetnick, the woman who accused Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh and a friend of attending house parties where women — including herself — were sexually assaulted, had a restraining order filed against her years later in Miami by her former boyfriend.
:snippity:
Right after I broke up with her, she was threatening my family, threatening my wife and threatening to do harm to my baby at that time,” Vinneccy said in a telephone interview with POLITICO. "I know a lot about her.”

"She’s not credible at all,” he said. “Not at all.”
Says a man who was apparently having an affair with her?



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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#152

Post by Foggy » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:52 pm

There's more detail available on that. Not at home, but he let the order lapse and she said he was using her résumé to apply for jobs and she busted him, is what I saw. More will be revealed.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#153

Post by jmj » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:53 pm

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:49 pm
jmj wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:46 pm
Predictably, the dirt-digging on Avenatti's client has begun:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/ ... ser-845348
Julie Swetnick, the woman who accused Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh and a friend of attending house parties where women — including herself — were sexually assaulted, had a restraining order filed against her years later in Miami by her former boyfriend.
:snippity:
Right after I broke up with her, she was threatening my family, threatening my wife and threatening to do harm to my baby at that time,” Vinneccy said in a telephone interview with POLITICO. "I know a lot about her.”

"She’s not credible at all,” he said. “Not at all.”
Says a man who was apparently having an affair with her?
I didn't even pick up on that detail. That makes it even slimier.



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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#154

Post by Volkonski » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:05 pm


The New York Times

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Julie Swetnick, the third woman to accuse Judge Kavanaugh of sexual misconduct restated, through her lawyer Michael Avenatti, her request for an FBI investigation, citing other people who could corroborate her allegations.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#155

Post by Volkonski » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:13 pm

Daniel Dale

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Mitchell says she has no further questions.

Daniel Dale

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Mitchell asks about statements from the other people Blasey Ford says were present, who say they don't remember any such gathering. She says she wouldn't expect they would, since "it was a very unremarkable party": "Nothing remarkable happened to them."

Daniel Dale

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Asked about her friend Leyland Keyser saying she does not recall such a gathering, Blasey Ford says Keyser has health issues she is taking care of (she does not specify), and that Keyser texted her an apology after the do-not-recall statement from her lawyer came out.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#156

Post by fierceredpanda » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:50 am

So, in spite of people here triumphantly proclaiming that Avenatti had "stopped" Kavanaugh, I would bet large sums that he is confirmed by Monday at the latest.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#157

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:18 am

Whot triumphedly proclaimed that?


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#158

Post by Dandelion » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:00 am

Question not asked or answered today, which loud music was playing in the upstairs bedroom?
Just curious to know what sort of music that group listened to.

Brett Kavanaugh seems short on self awareness. Lots and lots of beer, but no psychedelics?



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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#159

Post by RVInit » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:30 am

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:18 am
Whot triumphedly proclaimed that?
Nobody that I can see. There are varying degrees of "support" for some of what Avenatti has done, or contributed to. And a recognition by many of us that nothing short of a huge public outcry would even have a small chance of stopping the uplifting of Lord Kavanaugh to the highest court. And, Avenatti played his part in helping pour juice on that huge public outcry, along with all the others, each in their own way and using their own style.

So, I guess I'm "triumphantly" exclaiming Avenatti to be some kind of hero? :nope: And neither has anyone else.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#160

Post by Reality Check » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:14 am

To those of you who sit in your ivory towers and piss on Avenatti this is why we will continue to lose. The average voter is not a Fogbow member. They are not reasoning people. They are disengaged schmucks who absorb the news like an amoeba absorbs food through its cell wall. If something is repeated enough times and is shiny/sparkly they will pay attention. Avenatti gets through to the average voter. It isn't about winning or losing a motion before any judge on the finer points of law.

What Avenatti did to Cohen is astounding. He took down Trump's personal fucking attorney who had said he would walk through hell for his client. When some of you have accomplished anything equivalent to that I might listen.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#161

Post by RoadScholar » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:29 am

:yeah:


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#162

Post by Slim Cognito » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:50 am

Just saw on twitter Avenatti is putting his client on tv this weekend. My opinion of Avenatti has varied from admiration to eye rolling (often in the same day) but he did manage to give a porn star a respectable audience. Maybe he didn't do it the way Matlock would have, but he got there.

As long as Ms Swetnick is up to the drill and wants to do this, then this is the way to go. She'll be treated far better by Avenatti interviewer than the GOP anyway. It may not change anyone's mind, but lots of sound bites for upcoming campaign commercials.

Michael Avenatti

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Because @realDonaldTrump and the Senate Republicans refuse to allow my client Julie Swetnick to testify, we will be taking her story directly to the American people this weekend. This is about a search for the truth. Details to follow.

9:01 AM - 28 Sep


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#163

Post by Clairez » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:12 am

Reality Check wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:14 am
To those of you who sit in your ivory towers and piss on Avenatti this is why we will continue to lose. The average voter is not a Fogbow member. They are not reasoning people. They are disengaged schmucks who absorb the news like an amoeba absorbs food through its cell wall. If something is repeated enough times and is shiny/sparkly they will pay attention. Avennati gets through to the average voter. It isn't about winning or losing a motion before any judge on the finer points of law.

What Avennati did to Cohen is astounding. He took down Trump's personal fucking attorney who had said he would walk through hell for his client. When some of you have accomplished anything equivalent to that I might listen.
Agree completely. I have always said the reason Republicans win so often is that they can reduce everything to a bumper sticker. With so much noise and so many distractions, the only way you can get most peoples attention is to scream at them. I know that many here don't like it or want to hear it but the average IQ is 100. People like you all here have brought it UP to that. Think about that for awhile.



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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#164

Post by fierceredpanda » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:53 am

Reality Check wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:14 am
To those of you who sit in your ivory towers and piss on Avenatti this is why we will continue to lose. The average voter is not a Fogbow member. They are not reasoning people. They are disengaged schmucks who absorb the news like an amoeba absorbs food through its cell wall. If something is repeated enough times and is shiny/sparkly they will pay attention. Avennati gets through to the average voter. It isn't about winning or losing a motion before any judge on the finer points of law.

What Avennati did to Cohen is astounding. He took down Trump's personal fucking attorney who had said he would walk through hell for his client. When some of you have accomplished anything equivalent to that I might listen.
There is so much wrong with this post.

Being a lawyer means caring about the finer points of law. Full fucking stop. My entire point about Avenatti is that he is a superb PR man with better-than average political instincts, but please do not ask me to respect him as a legal practitioner. I love my profession too much to do that.

Avenatti did not "take down" Michael Cohen. The United States Department of Justice did that with information referred to them by Robert Mueller, which Mueller did not obtain from Avenatti. Avenatti's timing with going public was excellent, but his client just lost her defamation suit in court because he didn't anticipate the obvious SLAPP motion, or just couldn't be bothered to do the work to get the motion denied.

But no one cares about finer points of law, right? All that matters is he made a big splash on TV and embarrassed Cohen and Trump for a couple weeks.

And since I haven't "accomplished anything," I guess it's going to be time for me to take a break from Fogbow, too. I have clients to defend and keep out of prison. Since I'm not a front-running TV lawyer wearing Brioni, obviously I can be of no help to anyone here.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#165

Post by Foggy » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:25 am

I'd like to know why attorneys on this forum can't express their honest opinions without getting shit for it.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#166

Post by listeme » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:31 am

Foggy wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:25 am
I'd like to know why attorneys on this forum can't express their honest opinions without getting shit for it.
Only personal attacks are against the rules, right?

Discussions have disagreements. Buckle up, buttercup? Isn't that our philosophy around here?


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#167

Post by Foggy » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:37 am



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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#168

Post by Mikedunford » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:44 am

listeme wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:31 am
Foggy wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:25 am
I'd like to know why attorneys on this forum can't express their honest opinions without getting shit for it.
Only personal attacks are against the rules, right?

Discussions have disagreements. Buckle up, buttercup? Isn't that our philosophy around here?
"When some of you accomplish anything equivalent" is either a personal attack, or pretty fucking close to one. And RC is the second person to throw that around in about as many days.

I'm with the panda. In full.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#169

Post by voxpopuluxe » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:55 am

Reality Check wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:14 am
To those of you who sit in your ivory towers and piss on Avenatti this is why we will continue to lose. The average voter is not a Fogbow member. They are not reasoning people. They are disengaged schmucks who absorb the news like an amoeba absorbs food through its cell wall. If something is repeated enough times and is shiny/sparkly they will pay attention. Avennati gets through to the average voter. It isn't about winning or losing a motion before any judge on the finer points of law.

What Avennati did to Cohen is astounding. He took down Trump's personal fucking attorney who had said he would walk through hell for his client. When some of you have accomplished anything equivalent to that I might listen.
Yeah, three things—

1) I wish I had an ivory tower to micturate from!

2)Is there any evidence that Avennati does "get through" to the "average voter"? What does that actually even mean?

3)The notion that Avennati took down Cohen all by himself is, as it's pointed out, a very Avennati-ish exaggeration.

no, no, four things

4)The very juxtaposition of "ivory tower elites" against "average voters" is by itself practically Trumpian in its stirring and—as far as I can tell imaginary—appeal to the will of the people.

I mean I get that at this point the argument seems to be over Avennati's style more than anything else. And I think it's okay to like that style and even to wish that liberal politicians had more of his pugnacity. I do, too! I also think it's okay to view his bombast and the bombast of his fans—pissing on Avenatti is "why we lose"—really?—with a degree of skepticism.

I'll restate—I don't really have any objection to Avenatti or to what he's doing at the moment. And I'll leave the legal criticisms to the lawyers. I do find the attitude of "Help us, Michael Avenatti. You're our only hope" pretty OTT.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#170

Post by Somerset » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:04 pm

fierceredpanda wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:53 am
[

And since I haven't "accomplished anything," I guess it's going to be time for me to take a break from Fogbow, too.
Please don't. Or MikeD.



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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#171

Post by woodworker » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:06 pm

FierceRedPanda: Anyone who reads my posts know that I largely agree with you re: Avenatti. Please do not leave. One of the characteristics that makes the Fogbow incredibly valuable, at least to me, is the diversity of opinions, with there being a level of intelligence, reasoning and integrity behind those opinions that is not often found IRL, must less the internet.

We need that diversity of opinion because, among other reasons, it makes us better able , to defend and support our own opinions. I respect and look forward to reading your posts. But I also look forward to reading posts that I disagree with because they make me re-examine my arguments.

I know I am not doing a good job of expressing my thoughts here (I blame that on my third lithotrypsy yesterday), but please do not leave.

And to everyone: Anyone who knows me knows that I don't tolerate fools easily and that I have absolutely no hesitation about telling assholes that they are assholes. But I am begging everyone here to take a step back and remember why most of us got involved here originally, which was, IMO, because we saw something wrong in our society (which ever wrong it was may be different for different people) and we care enough to try to fix that wrong.

Without becoming too pollyannish, I hope we can remember that and remember that, whatever our differences, those differences are usually less significant in the grand scheme of things than the wrongs we are trying to address (shades of the closing scenes in Casablanca).

As a side note, I am sure that there are numerous lurkers here who could make significant contributions to our community but are scared off by some of the attacks we make on each other. I am saying "can't we all get along," but I hope we can dial back the vitriol towards each other and save it for the low life, pond scum, hypocritical, lying, etc. Right Wing Nut Jobs and their accomplices, including the Republican Party.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#172

Post by Uninformed » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:31 pm

Couldn't find the "What he said" smile...
It was the Bundy escapades that brought me to this forum, and by chance I found a site where reasonable and knowledgeable people posted good information (not forgetting the humor) and shared their differing opinions. I hope that those who have left and those who appear likely to do so reconsider. It really is sadly rare to find such a place on the internet.



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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#173

Post by Mr Pfister » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:33 pm

Uninformed wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:31 pm
Couldn't find the "What he said" smile...
It was the Bundy escapades that brought me to this forum, and by chance I found a site where reasonable and knowledgeable people posted good information (not forgetting the humor) and shared their differing opinions. I hope that those who have left and those who appear likely to do so reconsider. It really is sadly rare to find such a place on the internet.
Exactly what was said here, except I will add that the arrogance I see here from some folks is a real turn off.

That and the childish rants when someone disagrees

But hey, it beats many forums, yes?



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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#174

Post by Mikedunford » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:42 pm

I can't make my position on Avenatti any clearer, so I won't try. Apparently I do need to make my position on discussing him clearer.

1. My major issue with Avenatti involves the ethics of a lawyer using clients to boost his own profile in service of his nascent political ambitions. People want to discuss whether that's actually what is happening or my view of the legal ethics, buckle up Buttercup suits me fine.

2. I think that adopting Avenatti's Trump-like, go for the jugular approach will hurt us, as a nation, more in the long run than it helps in the short. I get that this is now a minority view here. That bothers me, but I'm fine with buckle up Buttercup.

2a. Should go without saying, but for "you might be right about Avenatti's ethics, but he's pissing off and hurting Trump so I don't care," see above.

3. "You're jealous," shut up until you accomplish something, and "stop pissing out of your ivory tower" aren't things that are exactly easy to argue with in a calm way. They're attacks not on what I'm saying, but my motives for saying it in the first place. My choices are to respond in kind, which will piss Foggy off and break board rules, shut up and take it in silence, or walk away.

I'm not going to piss off Foggy. And I'm not terribly inclined to suffer schoolyard bullshit in silence.


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Re: Kavanaugh hearings: Avenatti casually tossing bombs

#175

Post by RVInit » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:43 pm

FWIW I recently had to send someone here a PM after getting fed up with his habit of always including a personal insult every time he disagreed with my post. Apparently it worked. He doesn't respond at all now. :rotflmao: at least, not directly.

For the most part I think we all do pretty well. Any one can have a bad day, but most of us don't include personal insults or attacks when we disagree. :bighug:


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