The Question of Presidential Inability

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Addie
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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #76 by Addie » Tue May 16, 2017 1:25 pm

New York Times OpEd - David Brooks

When the World Is Led by a Child ...

At base, Trump is an infantalist. There are three tasks that most mature adults have sort of figured out by the time they hit 25. Trump has mastered none of them. Immaturity is becoming the dominant note of his presidency, lack of self-control his leitmotif.

First, most adults have learned to sit still. But mentally, Trump is still a 7-year-old boy who is bouncing around the classroom. Trump’s answers in these interviews are not very long — 200 words at the high end — but he will typically flit through four or five topics before ending up with how unfair the press is to him.
Continue reading the main story

His inability to focus his attention makes it hard for him to learn and master facts. He is ill informed about his own policies and tramples his own talking points. It makes it hard to control his mouth. On an impulse, he will promise a tax reform when his staff has done little of the actual work.

Second, most people of drinking age have achieved some accurate sense of themselves, some internal criteria to measure their own merits and demerits. But Trump seems to need perpetual outside approval to stabilize his sense of self, so he is perpetually desperate for approval, telling heroic fabulist tales about himself. ...

He is thus the all-time record-holder of the Dunning-Kruger effect, the phenomenon in which the incompetent person is too incompetent to understand his own incompetence. Trump thought he’d be celebrated for firing James Comey. He thought his press coverage would grow wildly positive once he won the nomination. He is perpetually surprised because reality does not comport with his fantasies.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #77 by kate520 » Tue May 16, 2017 2:12 pm

In answer to Forti:

1. More than Trump. I don't think Pence would actually push The Button, where I'm certain The Donald would if peeved enough.
2. Pence should last so long. He is as stinky from Russia as Trump, just takes more showers and keeps his head down. I suspect when details are finally revealed as to the extent of Trump's perfidy, we will see Pence's, too.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #78 by Mikedunford » Tue May 16, 2017 4:40 pm

Fortinbras wrote:And again the question, how badly do we want Mike Pence to be President?


Depends on the "we," I suppose.

For the "we" who are paying attention to the shit that's going on, and have the necessary perception* to comprehend the tremendous danger that we face under the current state of affairs, I'd say that we desperately want Mike Pence to be President. Because a President Pence will undoubtedly cause substantial harm to the country, but it will be "W" harm. It will be normal politics. It will be the kind of thing that the entire political system was designed to deal with, that can (the electorate willing) be repaired in relatively short order.

Trump is a semi-sentient dumpster fire who is perpetually shadowed by a guy with the nuke codes.


*i.e. any level greater than that possessed by the average amphetamine-crazed, repeatedly concussed chipmunk.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #79 by RoadScholar » Tue May 16, 2017 4:55 pm

I think the situation is exactly as MikeD describes it.

Richard Nixon would be a better president now than Trump, and he's dead. Well, pretty close.

Pence would be another Republican in the White House. What we have now is nothing less than an existential threat to the Republic.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #80 by Tiredretiredlawyer » Tue May 16, 2017 5:12 pm

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz ... evaluation?
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Amid concerns about Donald Trump’s fitness to be President, former President Barack Obama said on Tuesday that he was willing to serve as “temp President” while Trump undergoes psychiatric evaluation.

“It would just be a temp thing,” Obama told reporters. “As soon as psychiatrists determine that Donald Trump is mentally stable and fit to serve as the most powerful officeholder in the world, I’d step aside.”

Obama said that he was a “logical choice” to serve as temp President because of his eight years in the White House. “For starters, I know how the light switches work,” he said.

Obama said that, once installed as temp President, he would look after the day-to-day running of the White House: “You know—vetoing bills, naming Supreme Court Justices, that kind of thing.”

Asked how he envisioned his working relationship with Vice-President Mike Pence, Obama said, “I think Mike has been working so darn hard, he really deserves a vacation. Joe Biden has said he’ll fill in for a while.”


“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #81 by June bug » Tue May 16, 2017 5:22 pm

Mike Dunford wrote:Because a President Pence will undoubtedly cause substantial harm to the country, but it will be "W" harm. It will be normal politics. It will be the kind of thing that the entire political system was designed to deal with, that can (the electorate willing) be repaired in relatively short order.

RoadScholar wrote:Pence would be another Republican in the White House.

IMO Pence can do much more, and more permanent, harm than W. He's a Christian Dominionist, whose influence IMO is already seen in Trump's actions. If he becomes President, he'll push that agenda relentlessly, in the worst case through legislation, at the least via Executive Orders. What he does will not be easily or quickly repaired.

That being said, I agree with Mike and Road Scholar that Pence is still several orders of magnitude less dangerous than the Dumpster Don.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #82 by HilltownGrrl » Wed May 17, 2017 8:16 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/obama-willing-to-serve-as-temp-president-while-trump-receives-psychiatric-evaluation?
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Amid concerns about Donald Trump’s fitness to be President, former President Barack Obama said on Tuesday that he was willing to serve as “temp President” while Trump undergoes psychiatric evaluation.

“It would just be a temp thing,” Obama told reporters. “As soon as psychiatrists determine that Donald Trump is mentally stable and fit to serve as the most powerful officeholder in the world, I’d step aside.”

Obama said that he was a “logical choice” to serve as temp President because of his eight years in the White House. “For starters, I know how the light switches work,” he said.

Obama said that, once installed as temp President, he would look after the day-to-day running of the White House: “You know—vetoing bills, naming Supreme Court Justices, that kind of thing.”

Asked how he envisioned his working relationship with Vice-President Mike Pence, Obama said, “I think Mike has been working so darn hard, he really deserves a vacation. Joe Biden has said he’ll fill in for a while.”


As a sign of just how weird the news has been (especially) the last couple of weeks, I read the first sentence as though it this was an actual news report. I wondered about it in the second sentence but, sadly, it wasn't until I hit “For starters, I know how the light switches work,” that I realized it was satire. And then I was very, very sad because I desperately want Obama & Biden back (especially Biden, who always made me laugh). :violin: :crying:

Thanks for posting this, Tired - I needed a bit of ridiculousness to start my day!



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #83 by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed May 17, 2017 8:17 am

:thumbs: Love me some Borowitz.


“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #84 by HilltownGrrl » Wed May 17, 2017 8:23 am

June bug wrote:IMO Pence can do much more, and more permanent, harm than W. He's a Christian Dominionist, whose influence IMO is already seen in Trump's actions. If he becomes President, he'll push that agenda relentlessly, in the worst case through legislation, at the least via Executive Orders. What he does will not be easily or quickly repaired.

That being said, I agree with Mike and Road Scholar that Pence is still several orders of magnitude less dangerous than the Dumpster Don.


I agree completely with all of this. Pence absolutely terrifies me, as do all Dominionists. It really says something about how horrendous 45 is that we are all in agreement that even with his robotic weirdness & nasty religious mania, Pence would still be better than 45 (with "better" being a very relative term).



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #85 by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed May 17, 2017 8:25 am

:like: :like: :like:


“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #86 by Gregg » Wed May 17, 2017 10:18 am

HilltownGrrl wrote:
June bug wrote:IMO Pence can do much more, and more permanent, harm than W. He's a Christian Dominionist, whose influence IMO is already seen in Trump's actions. If he becomes President, he'll push that agenda relentlessly, in the worst case through legislation, at the least via Executive Orders. What he does will not be easily or quickly repaired.

That being said, I agree with Mike and Road Scholar that Pence is still several orders of magnitude less dangerous than the Dumpster Don.


I agree completely with all of this. Pence absolutely terrifies me, as do all Dominionists. It really says something about how horrendous 45 is that we are all in agreement that even with his robotic weirdness & nasty religious mania, Pence would still be better than 45 (with "better" being a very relative term).


It helps that he'll be a political cripple.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #87 by Addie » Wed May 17, 2017 10:21 am

New York Times OpEd - Ross Douthat

The 25th Amendment Solution to Remove Trump ...

It is a child who blurts out classified information in order to impress distinguished visitors. It is a child who asks the head of the F.B.I. why the rules cannot be suspended for his friend and ally. It is a child who does not understand the obvious consequences of his more vindictive actions — like firing the very same man whom you had asked to potentially obstruct justice on your say-so. ...

The Trump situation is not exactly the sort that the amendment’s Cold War-era designers were envisioning. He has not endured an assassination attempt or suffered a stroke or fallen prey to Alzheimer’s. But his incapacity to really govern, to truly execute the serious duties that fall to him to carry out, is nevertheless testified to daily — not by his enemies or external critics, but by precisely the men and women whom the Constitution asks to stand in judgment on him, the men and women who serve around him in the White House and the cabinet.

Read the things that these people, members of his inner circle, his personally selected appointees, say daily through anonymous quotations to the press. (And I assure you they say worse off the record.) They have no respect for him, indeed they seem to palpate with contempt for him, and to regard their mission as equivalent to being stewards for a syphilitic emperor. ...

Meanwhile, from the perspective of the Republican leadership’s duty to their country, and indeed to the world that our imperium bestrides, leaving a man this witless and unmastered in an office with these powers and responsibilities is an act of gross negligence, which no objective on the near-term political horizon seems remotely significant enough to justify.

There will be time to return again to world-weariness and cynicism as this agony drags on. Right now, though, I will be boring in my sincerity: I respectfully ask Mike Pence and Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell to reconsider their support for a man who never should have had his party’s nomination, never should have been elevated to this office, never should have been endorsed and propped up and defended by people who understood his unfitness all along.

Now is a day for redemption. Now is an acceptable time.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #88 by TollandRCR » Wed May 17, 2017 10:39 am

Addie wrote:New York Times OpEd - Ross Douthat
The 25th Amendment Solution to Remove Trump ...

Now is a day for redemption. Now is an acceptable time.

:thumbs:


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #89 by rpenner » Wed May 17, 2017 5:48 pm

Amendment XXV [Presidential Succession (1967)] Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

CRS Annotated Constitution has nothing on Section 4.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

Post #90 by Mikedunford » Wed May 17, 2017 6:48 pm

rpenner wrote:
Amendment XXV [Presidential Succession (1967)] Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

CRS Annotated Constitution has nothing on Section 4.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/


You generally only get annotations on the parts of the Constitution that have been used.


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