Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

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listeme
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by listeme » Wed May 17, 2017 6:42 pm

As I just said to my daughter and niece, I'm not going to lie: I hope he goes down and VERY SOON. Meanwhile, I'm going to keep working my butt off to save the world.
We're used to being told it's our fault that men don't listen to us.

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RVInit
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by RVInit » Wed May 17, 2017 6:43 pm

Also, if there is an ongoing investigation, they don't just give up the investigation and shoot their wad on the very first instance of a possible crime turning up. Comey did what I expect is always done in this kind of situation. Document and continue with his investigation. Reporting this would have put a stop to everything else.

This single instance may not even rise to the level of obstruction in and of itself anyway. We have some information that this was not the only incident that Comey documented. Even if it was, we have this incident and then a more serious incident, the firing. When you combine the two it does suggest a pattern of obstruction. A "minor" attempt to obstruct, followed by a more serious obstruction where the perpetrator admitted the intent of firing Comey was to stop the Russian investigation. No, Comey's documentation of the incident, followed by a continuation of the investigation seems perfectly normal to me.
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed May 17, 2017 6:54 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:He won't last the four years. But I don't think he is anywhere near the punishment level that would make him quit. He has weathered many bankruptcies. And his Republican allies are still in the toilet with him.

I'd give it another year at least. But the Comey firing was the bright line where it all started to go irretrievably downhill.
I see it as a snowball rolling downhill. He has other problems besides the obstruction thing. The NY AG is investigating whether Trump misused his foundation money. That sounds promising. We know about the artwork and gifts he bought himself.

They could find solid evidence tying Page, Manafort or Flynn to Putin's interference in the election. Even if they can't tie it directly to Trump*, that's gonna hurt.

*Part of me thinks Putin knows Trump is too stupid to trust with the info. Then again, he was fined for laundering Russian money through the Taj Mahal.

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Skip Intro » Wed May 17, 2017 6:59 pm

One major characteristic of the current administration is its deep and abiding terror of expertise in general, and outside expertise in particular. - Charles Pierce

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Mikedunford » Wed May 17, 2017 7:05 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:He won't last the four years. But I don't think he is anywhere near the punishment level that would make him quit. He has weathered many bankruptcies. And his Republican allies are still in the toilet with him.

I'd give it another year at least. But the Comey firing was the bright line where it all started to go irretrievably downhill.
I respectfully dissent. If it gets to the point where he leaves before the end of four years (which even after today isn't something I'd put money on), Comey's firing won't actually be the moment when it went irretrievably downhill. That's something that the modern Republican Party would cheerfully forgive a competent President capable of effectively advancing their agenda. The botched first healthcare attempt or the laughable attempt at a tax plan rollout are (IMO) better contenders for real break points.
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Hektor » Wed May 17, 2017 7:10 pm

You know, I always have reckoned Trump as having some excrement-based alternative to the Midas touch. I admit I was wrong in I thought that it would cost him the election... Perhaps I had too much faith in my earthling friends... but I'd really hate to be a Republican strategist or member of the congressional leadership right now. What's the point of Trump winning the election, if he'll use his Trump touch to defecate repeatedly over everything? Remember it was like less than two weeks ago that the House managed to barely pass Trumpcare. There were dreams of tax "reform."

I think that ever since the GOP started riding the Tiger of Trump, the strategists and pundits and what not have been trying to tell themselves that it's okay... Trump will sign our bills and appoint the people we want. But Trump keeps causing chaos, much of it self-inflicted. He's not going to change... and if he doesn't, he'll keep the Trump touches coming as each attempt at a legislative agenda.

He's handed what is potentially a very Pyrrhic victory to the Republican party.

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by ZekeB » Wed May 17, 2017 7:12 pm

Remember that Trump has that emoluments clause thing hanging over his head too. It's not just Russia.

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by maydijo » Wed May 17, 2017 7:28 pm

Mikedunford wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:He won't last the four years. But I don't think he is anywhere near the punishment level that would make him quit. He has weathered many bankruptcies. And his Republican allies are still in the toilet with him.

I'd give it another year at least. But the Comey firing was the bright line where it all started to go irretrievably downhill.
I respectfully dissent. If it gets to the point where he leaves before the end of four years (which even after today isn't something I'd put money on), Comey's firing won't actually be the moment when it went irretrievably downhill. That's something that the modern Republican Party would cheerfully forgive a competent President capable of effectively advancing their agenda. The botched first healthcare attempt or the laughable attempt at a tax plan rollout are (IMO) better contenders for real break points.
Let's not quibble over a timeline. Let's just say it all started going downhill the day he announced his candidacy.

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Techno Luddite » Wed May 17, 2017 7:34 pm

It's appalling that Ryan's first impulse was to express concern about a political party and not the country. I imagine many if not most politicians would do or think the same, however. In both parties.

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by tek » Thu May 18, 2017 6:42 am

maydijo wrote:Let's not quibble over a timeline. Let's just say it all started going downhill the day he announced his candidacy.
I'll go with June 14, 1946.
We are so far down the rabbit hole..

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Addie » Thu May 18, 2017 7:18 am

McClatchy
‘People are in meltdown mode.’ Inside the GOP donor class panic about Trump

WASHINGTON

Pangs of fear and frustration are rippling through the Republican donor and operative classes as Donald Trump’s self-inflicted wounds threaten to fully derail the GOP legislative agenda and tarnish the party’s brand headed into the midterms.

At a Miami donor retreat and at a high-powered Washington dinner, on Capitol Hill and at political firms across the country, Republican donors and operatives this week watched the barrage of bad headlines about Trump with a mixture of awe, angst and anger, worrying about the political implications for their Republican majorities—and about the legal implications for the president. ...

Taken together, some Republicans have privately begun to doubt whether Trump will serve a full term (Trump has already filed for re-election in 2020).

“I’m finding it hard to find people who say, ‘No, this isn’t that bad,’” said one Republican operative with close ties to the donor and lobbying worlds. “It’s gradients of bad, [from] ‘we were wrong before, he’ll survive,’ to, ‘this is the beginning of the end.’ I’m not finding anyone who says this isn’t a problem. Is this the beginning of a problem that knocks him out?...What’s the over-under on him making it four years? That’s the conversation.”

One Republican bundler who has worked closely with the Republican National Committee in the past was incensed, saying that Trump had actually done the very things that conservatives had fretted Hillary Clinton might hypothetically do—intentionally or not—when it came to sharing classified information with adversaries.

“These are not minor and insignificant issues,” the source said. “We pilloried the Democratic nominee for creating the conditions where that possibly could happen. He did it! He admits to it! I don’t know how you overcome that, when that was the cornerstone of folks not voting for her. So here we are, and I guess, shame on us.”
¡Qué vergüenza!

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Addie » Thu May 18, 2017 8:22 am

WaPo - Rick Wilson
If you work for Trump, it’s time to quit ...

Whether you’re a 20-something fresh off the campaign trail, or a seasoned Washington insider serving in the Cabinet, by now you’re painfully aware that you’re not making America great again; you’re barely making it to the end of the daily news cycle before your verbally incontinent boss, the putative leader of the free world, once again steers the proverbial car into a ditch. On every front, you’re faced with legal, political and moral hazards. The president’s job, and yours, is a lot harder than it looked, and you know the problem originates in the Oval Office.

You hate that people are shying away from the administration jobs in droves: Just this week, in rapid succession, both Sen. John Cornyn and Rep. Trey Gowdy withdrew their names from consideration as replacements for former FBI Director James Comey, the guy your boss fired. Whatever department you’re in, it’s a safe bet that it’s a whispering graveyard of empty appointments and unfilled jobs.

I know: many of you serving in Cabinet, sub-Cabinet and White House roles joined Team Trump in good faith, believing you could help steady the ship, smooth the rough edges and, just maybe, put some conservative policy wins up on the board. You could see that President Trump’s undisciplined style was risky, but you hoped the big show playing over at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue would provide you with cover to work steadily and enthusiastically on the administration’s legislative priorities. Some of you even bought into the ‘Merica First new nationalism. Many of you quietly assured friends in the Washington ecosystem that Trump would settle into his job — after all, just a few days after taking office, he assured us, “I can be the most presidential person ever.” ...

Every day you get up, slide into the seat of your Prius or Tahoe (and if you’re senior enough, exchange a few polite words with your driver) and start checking Twitter. Whatever it is that you’re feeling, it doesn’t feel anything like Morning in America. It feels like some far-away kleptocracy where the center hasn’t held, the airfield and radio station have fallen to the rebels, and the Maximum Leader is holed up in his secret bunker waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Soon (and by soon, I mean now) you’ll have to make a choice. You’ll have to decide if I’m here to help has morphed into I’m helping this president dismantle the republic. In D.C., principle is as rare as hen’s teeth, but, GOP friends, I’m here to help you.
¡Qué vergüenza!

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Azastan » Thu May 18, 2017 8:25 am

Addie wrote:
You’ll have to decide if I’m here to help has morphed into I’m helping this president dismantle the republic. In D.C., principle is as rare as hen’s teeth, but, GOP friends, I’m here to help you.
There are many like Bannon, who WANT to dismantle the republic (or at least the government).

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Slim Cognito » Thu May 18, 2017 9:16 am

I can't believe I'm following Rick Wilson and Bill Kristol on twitter these days, and AGREEING with them.

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Thu May 18, 2017 9:32 am

Slim Cognito wrote:I can't believe I'm following Rick Wilson and Bill Kristol on twitter these days, and AGREEING with them.
Same here!!!!!!
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Thu May 18, 2017 9:36 am

tek wrote:
maydijo wrote:Let's not quibble over a timeline. Let's just say it all started going downhill the day he announced his candidacy.
I'll go with June 14, 1946.
I lubs your realism, Tek!!!! :lovestruck:
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by RVInit » Thu May 18, 2017 9:36 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Slim Cognito wrote:I can't believe I'm following Rick Wilson and Bill Kristol on twitter these days, and AGREEING with them.
Same here!!!!!!
I haven't made the leap to click on the follow button for either of them, but, I do check their feed now and then.
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu May 18, 2017 9:53 am

What are Kristol and Wilson saying (tweeting)?

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Mikedunford » Thu May 18, 2017 10:00 am

Kristol's latest:
If @realDonaldTrump really believes it's a witch hunt, he can end it. He can fire Rosenstein and fire Mueller.
Maybe on a Saturday night?
Edit: And here's a recent Wilson Tweet:
1. Can't release taxes,

2. Can release crown-jewel intelligence program information.
It sounds like they've both had it, officially.
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by RVInit » Thu May 18, 2017 10:04 am

Rick Wilson has the following banner on his Twitter page

ABUSE OF POWER COMES AS NO SURPRISE
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Addie » Fri May 19, 2017 12:49 pm

Daily Beast
Pence Looms as Chaos Reigns in Trumpland ...

With each new explosion, we learn more about what is going on inside Trump’s White House, a staff with their hair aflame as they say anything, to not to be treated as abused children. See the pictures of Sean Spicer explaining Comey’s firing behind bushes in the dark, literally and figuratively. Read Senate testimony where, according to former Acting Attorney General Sally Yates, White House counsel Donald McGahn wonders what the big deal is if one official (Flynn) lies to another (the vice president). Listen as substitute press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders says that Trump doesn’t have time to be briefing surrogates. Be amazed as Trump responds that if we expect honesty at press briefings, well, he will just stop having them. That will show us.

Even before the Mueller announcement, a seething Trump had entered the martyr stage, telling graduates at the Coast Guard Academy to “look at the way I’ve been treated lately. No one’s been treated worse or more unfairly.” He’s complaining about his foreign trip, asking if eight days couldn’t be cut to four. Trump is so disgusted with his advisers he’s turned on the lot of them, even golden boy Jared Kushner, according to The New York Times. This leaves Trump in a terrible pickle because Kushner is in charge of just about everything, including bringing peace to the Middle East, and is married to daughter Ivanka, who is in charge of everything else. Cue the Godfather comparisons with a warning to Kushner to keep outside of kissing range.

Trump isn’t just furious; he is cruelly disappointed. He may have never expected to be elected but given that he was, he thought it would provide everything missing in his life: the constant roar of the crowd, the approval of the elites who shunned him, the opportunity as king to remake the world however he sees fit with the stroke of a pen.

One day, Trump’s best hope may be that President Pence provides the most important thing missing in his life: a pardon.
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Chilidog » Fri May 19, 2017 2:19 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:What are Kristol and Wilson saying (tweeting)?

Rick Wilson called Trump "ripshit bonkers" on MSNBC this morning.

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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Slim Cognito » Sat May 20, 2017 7:37 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:What are Kristol and Wilson saying (tweeting)?
A few Wilson tweets.
Untitled.png



Kristol isn't as clever, but he's finally making sense
Untitled2.png
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Sat May 20, 2017 8:10 am

Mikedunford wrote:Kristol's latest:
If @realDonaldTrump really believes it's a witch hunt, he can end it. He can fire Rosenstein and fire Mueller.
Maybe on a Saturday night?
Edit: And here's a recent Wilson Tweet:
1. Can't release taxes,

2. Can release crown-jewel intelligence program information.
It sounds like they've both had it, officially.
@MalcolmNance said he anticipated the Russians in the Oval Office. They were acting as his case workers evaluating his job. He HAD to give them SOMETHING!
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Re: Death Throes of the Trump Presidency

Post by RTH10260 » Sat May 20, 2017 8:28 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: :snippity:
@MalcolmNance said he anticipated the Russians in the Oval Office. They were acting as his case workers evaluating his job. He HAD to give them SOMETHING!
Yeah - those quarterly job satisfaction reports :lol: :lol: :lol:

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