Mueller's investigation of Trump

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Addie
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Addie » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:51 am

Hokay, just the people you want to alienate :cantlook:
Talking Points Memo

Trump Lawyer Blames Secret Service For Not Preemptively Stopping Jr.'s Meeting

Jay Sekulow, a member of President Donald Trump’s legal team, on Sunday aired a new defense for Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting with a Russian lawyer who promised him damaging information on Hillary Clinton: The Secret Service should not have “allowed these people in” to meet with Trump’s eldest son.

“I wonder why the Secret Service, if this was nefarious, why the Secret Service allowed these people in,” Sekulow said on ABC’s “This Week,” referring to Trump’s protection detail as the Republican candidate. “The President had Secret Service protection at that point, and that raised a question with me.”

Trump Jr. arranged the meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya after he was promised compromising information on Hillary Clinton as part of a Russian state effort to aid his father’s campaign.

Sekulow said he had not talked to Trump about whether the President would eliminate the possibility of pardoning associates caught up in the federal investigation into possible collusion between members of Trump’s campaign and Russian officials to interfere in the 2016 election.
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Kendra
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Kendra » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:59 am

Just when you think they can't go any lower...

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Suranis
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Suranis » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:17 am

So, this meeting has been Clintons fault, Obama's fault and now the Secret Service's fault. BOY the locker room talk in the SEC SER offices must be REAL entertaining.

Hoefully Muller and others will be a case of "Cometh the Hour, cometh the Man."
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by pipistrelle » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:21 am

Suranis wrote:So, this meeting has been Clintons fault, Obama's fault and now the Secret Service's fault. BOY the locker room talk in the SEC SER offices must be REAL entertaining.

Hoefully Muller and others will be a case of "Cometh the Hour, cometh the Man."
I don't get the Secret Service part, but then it doesn't matter because the loyal won't question it. How would the Secret Service know what the meeting was about? Wouldn't it be TYRANNY if they prevented a guy from going to his meeting or canceled it on him or whatever?

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Kendra
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Kendra » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:05 pm

IIRC, arrangements had to be made via someone in Trump tower to get them admitted into the upper floors? So, they were allowed into the building on the say-so of Trump officials and now it's the Secret Service's fault? :brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall:

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Chilidog
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Chilidog » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:42 pm

Wasn't this meeting before Trump was receiving any secret service protection?

edit

nevermind.

a quick google reveals that he began receiving protection in November 2015 after he whined about it.

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Addie
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Addie » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:56 pm

The Hill
Secret Service responds to Trump lawyer: Russian lawyer meeting not screened ...

However, that protection did not extend to Trump Jr. at the time, according to the Secret Service.

"Donald Trump, Jr. was not a protectee of the USSS in June, 2016. Thus we would not have screened anyone he was meeting with at that time,” Secret Service spokesman Mason Brayman said in a statement to Reuters on Sunday.

The Secret Service is authorized to protect immediate family members of the president, vice president, the president-elect, the vice president-elect, as well as other individuals in the presidential line of succession, according to the Secret Service’s website.

They are also authorized to protect major presidential and vice presidential candidates and their spouses within 120 days of a general election, according to the website.
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Chilidog
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Chilidog » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:46 pm

Of course if they were there, that would mean that Donald Trump Sr. Was there as well, would it not?

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Foggy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:17 pm

Suranis wrote:Hopefully Mueller and others will be a case of "Cometh the Hour, cometh the Man."
The more I think about it, the more I think Mueller isn't going to make any difference. None.

I hope I'm wrong.

But I think Trump is going to get rid of him, and probably Rosenstein and maybe others. I think he's going to fire anyone and everyone who gets in his way, and he'll be able to do that with Fox News and the Republicans backing him to the hilt.

Hannity will be :cheer: all the way. Ryan and Mitchell will do nothing. He still has 36% of the country who think he's doing a good job.

I think our only chance is to take both chambers of Congress back next year, but it's going to be really hard to vote, and nobody is going to stop the Russians from fucking with the outcome.

I think we're in deep shit. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by SLQ » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:17 pm

Chilidog wrote:Of course if they were there, that would mean that Donald Trump Sr. Was there as well, would it not?
Interesting thought. Trump does not seem to delegate much, if at all. I strongly suspect he was #8 at the meeting.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by much ado » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:27 pm

SLQ wrote:
Chilidog wrote:Of course if they were there, that would mean that Donald Trump Sr. Was there as well, would it not?
Interesting thought. Trump does not seem to delegate much, if at all. I strongly suspect he was #8 at the meeting.
I suspect Mueller already knows whether he was there. I wonder if it will get leaked soon.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by MsDaisy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:56 pm

Well…. supposedly Elvis WUZ in the building at the time the meeting took place

Was President at Trump Tower When Son Met Russian Lawyer?
A review of open-source data indicates then-candidate Donald Trump was inside Trump Tower last year when his eldest son and at least two other top aides huddled with a Russian lawyer they believed had Kremlin-supplied information that could hurt presidential rival Hillary Clinton.

White House and Trump campaign officials, along with the president’s private legal team, have not disputed as of publication time that he was at his Manhattan steel-and-glass haven. That means Trump was nearby — though likely on a different floor — when his son and associates believed they were about to receive information from the Kremlin intended to ding another candidate for the country’s highest office.

“Mr. Mueller will almost certainly want answers, under oath, clarifying whether President Trump was made aware at the time of the existence of the meeting in general, to say nothing of the specific details of the meeting,” said Bradley Moss, a national security lawyer, referring to Justice Department special counsel Robert S. Mueller. “He will also want to know whether President Trump was debriefed about the meeting at any time in the aftermath.”

The meeting on June 9, 2016, at Trump Tower in New York with Natalia Veselnitskaya — whom a Trump family business associate described to Donald Trump Jr. in an email as a “Russian government attorney” — was premised on her delivering Kremlin-supplied information the associate assured Trump’s eldest son “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.”
More at Roll Call
http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/p ... ian-lawyer
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by much ado » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:06 am

MsDaisy wrote:Well…. supposedly Elvis WUZ in the building at the time the meeting took place
Well, if Elvis was in the building, it is hard to believe he was not at the meeting.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 am

Addie wrote:Hokay, just the people you want to alienate :cantlook:
Talking Points Memo

Trump Lawyer Blames Secret Service For Not Preemptively Stopping Jr.'s Meeting
:snippity:
Why the Secreg Service? As The Don jr said himself, this happened very early in the campaign and was of no importance. Teh Donald was not even GOP candidate yet. :doh:

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:36 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Suranis wrote:So, this meeting has been Clintons fault, Obama's fault and now the Secret Service's fault. BOY the locker room talk in the SEC SER offices must be REAL entertaining.

Hoefully Muller and others will be a case of "Cometh the Hour, cometh the Man."
I don't get the Secret Service part, but then it doesn't matter because the loyal won't question it. How would the Secret Service know what the meeting was about? Wouldn't it be TYRANNY if they prevented a guy from going to his meeting or canceled it on him or whatever?
Yeah, the Secret Service was in duty of protecting the candidates of physical attacks. If anyone had knowlege of a sinister background it would have been the CIA, and they likely provided the material to deny the visa of the Russian Mrs V. in first place. Any interagency tippoff would have gone to the FBI.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Slim Cognito » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:21 am

much ado wrote:
MsDaisy wrote:Well…. supposedly Elvis WUZ in the building at the time the meeting took place
Well, if Elvis was in the building, it is hard to believe he was not at the meeting.
I can't imagine Jr not telling daddy he had an important meeting coming up to provide dirt on Clinton, nor can I imagine Trump himself not wanting to attend. But that's just me.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Flatpointhigh » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:23 am

Slim Cognito wrote:
much ado wrote:
MsDaisy wrote:Well…. supposedly Elvis WUZ in the building at the time the meeting took place
Well, if Elvis was in the building, it is hard to believe he was not at the meeting.
I can't imagine Jr not telling daddy he had an important meeting coming up to provide dirt on Clinton, nor can I imagine Trump himself not wanting to attend. But that's just me.
But, was the Naked Cowboy® there?

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Somerset » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:34 am

Slim Cognito wrote:
much ado wrote:
MsDaisy wrote:Well…. supposedly Elvis WUZ in the building at the time the meeting took place
Well, if Elvis was in the building, it is hard to believe he was not at the meeting.
I can't imagine Jr not telling daddy he had an important meeting coming up to provide dirt on Clinton
Agree
nor can I imagine Trump himself not wanting to attend.
I can. I imagine he probably told Jr to attend and report back on how useful their information was. If there was value, he'd get involved.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Flatpointhigh » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:34 am

Somerset wrote:
Slim Cognito wrote:
much ado wrote: Well, if Elvis was in the building, it is hard to believe he was not at the meeting.
I can't imagine Jr not telling daddy he had an important meeting coming up to provide dirt on Clinton
Agree
nor can I imagine Trump himself not wanting to attend.
I can. I imagine he probably told Jr to attend and report back on how useful their information was. If there was value, he'd get involved.
according to those who have worked with him in the past, he's a micro-manager. He was there..

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Somerset » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:43 am

Flatpointhigh wrote:
Somerset wrote:
Slim Cognito wrote:
I can't imagine Jr not telling daddy he had an important meeting coming up to provide dirt on Clinton
Agree
nor can I imagine Trump himself not wanting to attend.
I can. I imagine he probably told Jr to attend and report back on how useful their information was. If there was value, he'd get involved.
according to those who have worked with him in the past, he's a micro-manager. He was there..
One doesn't have to be present to micro-manage, and he's Machiavellian enough to know that you don't blow your load in the first meeting. Letting a trusted underling or two take the first meeting without you is a way of raising the stakes for subsequent meetings and shielding yourself from potential bad contacts.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Kendra » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:45 am

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by MsDaisy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:16 am

Somerset wrote: :snippity:
One doesn't have to be present to micro-manage, and he's Machiavellian enough to know that you don't blow your load in the first meeting. Letting a trusted underling or two take the first meeting without you is a way of raising the stakes for subsequent meetings and shielding yourself from potential bad contacts.
That is very true, but I don’t believe for a minute Trump didn’t know every detail of what was going down and he’s already started double talking about it, also from that same article linked above:
:snippity:
Trump — echoed by Principal Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders and his personal lawyers — initially said he only learned of the meeting with the Russian lawyer in recent days.But then, in an off-the-record chat Wednesday night with reporters aboard Air Force One that the White House then made on-the-record, the president further muddied the waters when he suggested the meeting might have come up in passing.

:snippity:
“Nobody talked to me, no. In fact, I mean, maybe it was mentioned at some point, but I don’t remember ever hearing about adoption,” Trump said. “You know, adopting babies from Russia was a big thing, and it was ended, but that was a big thing. But during the campaign, I mean, I may be wrong, I don’t remember anybody ever bringing it up as an issue.”
:brickwallsmall:

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Addie » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:19 am

VOX - Matt Yglesias
You should care about the Trump-Russia scandal

It's not a distraction. It's about holding the president accountable to the public and not his bottom line.

While the unfolding saga of Donald Trump and his associates’ ties to Russia has riveted millions of Americans for months, millions more find the media’s fascination with it bizarre or even perverse. At the end of the day, one might reasonably ask, what does this have to do with my life? The answer is: quite a lot.

The investigation is important for American foreign policy, of course. But the scandal implicates something more far-reaching and consequential — whether wealthy and powerful people will be held accountable for their actions or whether a long-simmering culture of impunity is about to boil over and leave ordinary people defenseless.

There’s a reason the same president who’s spent months trying to block an investigation of Russian hacking also has the State Department spending $15,000 at his Vancouver hotel, has the Secret Service spending $35,000 renting golf carts from his Palm Beach resort, and is collecting millions of dollars in conflict of interest revenue through his DC hotel. There’s a reason that same president decided to ignore the American Academy of Pediatrics and reject the government’s own science and let chemical companies keep selling a pesticide that doctors say is poisoning young children’s brains. There’s a reason his health care bill breaks his promises to protect Medicaid and lower deductibles and that his budget breaks his promise to protect Social Security.

Donald Trump is a president who cares only about himself. That, fundamentally, is what the Russia scandal is about, and it’s what his whole presidency is about too. The investigation, conversely, is about accountability and whether anything can force Trump to acknowledge an obligation to serve the public rather than to have the levers of government serve his narrow self-interest.

Russian hackers committed serious crimes

It’s easy to forget amid the partisan tumult and talk of possible “collusion” between the Trump campaign and a foreign power, but this whole story started with a rather straightforward crime. Someone — later identified by American intelligence and law enforcement officials as the Russian government — hacked first the Democratic National Committee internal email and then the Gmail inbox of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chair. They then posted the entirety of the stolen emails online for the world to see.

That’s a crime.
Adding:
CNN: How the Trump Jr. meeting fits into the larger Putin game plan
WaPo: Ruth Marcus: Behind the Trump team’s bluster, a dark legal strategy
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by Maybenaut » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:43 am

“You know, adopting babies from Russia was a big thing, and it was ended, but that was a big thing. But during the campaign, I mean, I may be wrong, I don’t remember anybody ever bringing it up as an issue.”
One reason he might not remember anyone bringing it up is because that wasn't the reason for the meeting.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

Post by noblepa » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:03 pm

Flatpointhigh wrote:
Somerset wrote:
Slim Cognito wrote:
I can't imagine Jr not telling daddy he had an important meeting coming up to provide dirt on Clinton
Agree
nor can I imagine Trump himself not wanting to attend.
I can. I imagine he probably told Jr to attend and report back on how useful their information was. If there was value, he'd get involved.
according to those who have worked with him in the past, he's a micro-manager. He was there..
Also, The Donald doesn't seem to understand (or care about) the concept of "plausible deniability". So, having junior take the meeting and report back would never occur to him.

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