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Trump org/ campaign FISA warrants

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Chilidog
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Trump org/ campaign FISA warrants

#1

Post by Chilidog »

Since this is probably going to brew up into a major issue I thought I'd give it it's own thread.

Right now the facts are unclear.

were FISA warrants sought?

Against who?

were they issued?

Did this involve that mysterious server communicating with the Russians?

President Trump on Saturday angrily accused former president Barack Obama of orchestrating a “Nixon/Watergate” plot to tap the phones at his Trump Tower headquarters last fall in the run-up to the election.

Citing no evidence to support his explosive allegation, Trump said in a series of five tweets sent Saturday morning that Obama was “wire tapping” his New York offices before the election in a move he compared to McCarthyism. “Bad (or sick) guy!” he said of his predecessor, adding that the surveillance resulted in “nothing found.”

Trump offered no citations nor did he point to any credible news report to back up his accusation, but he may have been referring to commentary on Breitbart and conservative talk radio suggesting that Obama and his administration used “police state” tactics last fall to monitor the Trump team. The Breitbart story, published Friday, has been circulating among Trump's senior staff, according to a White House official who described it as a useful catalogue of the Obama administration's activities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... a4855dfa98


how much of this is from what Trump's staff has actually learned through their official status and duties as members of the administration, or is Trump using Brietbart as his intelligence services?


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GreatGrey
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#2

Post by GreatGrey »

Yeah, Drumph is so angry he was on the golf course by 9:30 am.


I am not "someone upthread".
Trump needs to be smashed into some kind of inedible orange pâté.
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Chilidog
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#3

Post by Chilidog »

NY Times

It would have been difficult for federal agents, working within the law, to obtain a wiretap order to target Mr. Trump’s phone conversations. It would have meant that the Justice Department had gathered sufficient evidence to persuade a federal judge that there was probable cause to believe he had committed a serious crime or was an agent of a foreign power, depending on whether it was a criminal investigation or a foreign intelligence one.


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Chilidog
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#4

Post by Chilidog »

A twofer

a rough crowd and Lindsey

Mediate

“The President of the United States is claiming that the former President of the United States ordered wiretapping of his campaign last year,” Graham told the crowd. “I don’t know if it’s true or not, but if it is true, illegally, it would be the biggest political scandal since Watergate.” After the combative crowd began yelling, Graham asked them to calm down so he could provide another side of the situation. “If the former President of the United States was able to obtain a warrant lawfully to monitor the Trump campaign for violating law, that would be the biggest scandal since Watergate,” he noted.

The senator then expressed his concerns over what this all could mean. “I’m very worried that our president is suggesting that the former president has done something illegal,” Graham stated. “I would be very worried if, in fact, the Obama Administration was able to obtain a warrant lawfully about Trump campaign activity with foreign governments.”


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Dolly
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#5

Post by Dolly »

As a refresher, I am adding a couple of links. The Slate article was posted here.

OCT. 31 2016
Was a Trump Server Communicating With Russia?
This spring, a group of computer scientists set out to determine whether hackers were interfering with the Trump campaign. They found something they weren’t expecting.
ETA again to correct link:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ussia.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ation_comm
CRAP! I was reading that article earlier today. Now I get "You Have Reached a 404 Page". let me check my notes.

I don't remember where I got this one.
2 months ago
FBI wanted warrant to monitor Donald Trump campaign over Russia links, claim reports
Investigators wanted to track four Trump team individuals over links to Kremlin - whose officials have allegedly compiled personally compromising material on 70-year-old
The FBI reportedly applied for a warrant to monitor Donald Trump’s presidential election campaign over links to Russian officials.
The request by US investigators, to track four members of his team, was allegedly rejected but then eventually granted in October last year.
The claims come amid potentially highly embarrassingly and damaging allegations that Russian intelligence has compromising material, some of a graphic sexual nature, on the President-elect just nine days before his inauguration.
The Guardian reports that the FBI applied for the warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer to keep an eye on Mr Trump team members suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. <SNIP>
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 20791.html


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Chilidog
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#6

Post by Chilidog »

A legal question

What if they used a FISA warrant to look at the computer server and found criminal activity instead?


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Lani
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#7

Post by Lani »

I remember posting a mainstream article last fall about a server in Trump tower that seemed to be dedication to Alpha/Alfa Bank and a rumor that the FBI had obtained a subpoena. IIRC that is also found in the Steele dossier.

The article received almost no attention because it was atound the time of the Comey/Weiner computer announcement.


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bob
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#8

Post by bob »

“I’m very worried that our president is suggesting that the former president has done something illegal,” Graham stated. “I would be very worried if, in fact, the Obama Administration was able to obtain a warrant lawfully about Trump campaign activity with foreign governments.”
I would be worried if federal law enforcement, despite having legal justification, was unable to obtain a warrant.


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much ado
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#9

Post by much ado »

Did Trump just kick a hornet's nest?


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Chilidog
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#10

Post by Chilidog »

David Axelrod‏ @davidaxelrod
This seems "nutts." Frantic way in which @realDonaldTrump is kicking up dust only adds to suspicions and the need for full public reckoning. (link: twitter.com/realdonaldtrum…


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Dolly
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#11

Post by Dolly »

Cross posting from: Trump - POTUS Tweets and Social Media
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=9410&start=125#p864480
jemcanada wrote:Great! That story about the servers between Trump Tower and Alfa Bank didn't get much attention at the time. It's nice of 45 to remind everyone now while the sharks are in the water over all the Russian contacts. :shark:
Volkonski wrote:
Addie wrote:The FBI got a FISA warrant in October. Is that what this nut is talking about? :confused:
Yes.
David Frum
(@davidfrum)
The president is reminding us that the FISA court approved warrants against his campaign on espionage suspicions.
3 hours ago · Twitter


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much ado
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#12

Post by much ado »

The authors of this article

A Tweet May Get Trump Impeached As President Declassified FISA Warrant On His Own People

finish with this
By tweeting without thinking, Trump may have declassified a warrant and brought down his entire presidency.
Are they overstating the significance of this?


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Slarti the White
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#13

Post by Slarti the White »

much ado wrote:The authors of this article

A Tweet May Get Trump Impeached As President Declassified FISA Warrant On His Own People

finish with this
By tweeting without thinking, Trump may have declassified a warrant and brought down his entire presidency.
Are they overstating the significance of this?
I certainly think he shot himself in the foot, but I'm not going to believe that anything will get him impeached until he's on trial in the Senate.


"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
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Dan1100
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#14

Post by Dan1100 »

Slartibartfast wrote:
much ado wrote:The authors of this article

A Tweet May Get Trump Impeached As President Declassified FISA Warrant On His Own People

finish with this
By tweeting without thinking, Trump may have declassified a warrant and brought down his entire presidency.
Are they overstating the significance of this?
I certainly think he shot himself in the foot, but I'm not going to believe that anything will get him impeached until he's on trial in the Senate.
It will make the hearing for confirming the new Deputy Attorney General more interesting.

Certainly another brick in the wall for those wanting an Independent Counsel (or whatever it is called now) and a 911 style commission.


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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#15

Post by kate520 »

I read that one of his non-publicly signed EOs changed the order of succession at DOJ so that his little poodle, Boente, will be acting AG.

The order appears to be the first that Trump has not signed in a public ceremony. It's dated Thursday — the same day Attorney General Jeff Sessions was sworn in — but was not posted to the White House website until Friday morning. The White House did not explain the discrepancy.

The executive order spells out who will act as the nation's highest law enforcement officer if the attorney general dies, resigns or becomes incapacitated. Such orders have been routine since the 2001 terrorist attacks, but Trump's is notable becomes it comes two weeks after he fired acting Attorney General Sally Yates for refusing to defend his executive order banning travelers from seven predominately Muslim countries.

That time, Trump went outside the official order of succession — as he has the right to do — to elevate Dana Boente, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, to acting attorney general.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /97752898/


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Skip Intro
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#16

Post by Skip Intro »

This may not be real.

Image


In the Trump era anything is true if enough people believe it.
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#17

Post by noblepa »

Has this alleged wiretap even been verified? Obama has issued a denial that anyone in his WH requested such surveilence.

Of course, there are other agencies that could have done so, such as the FBI or the NSA.

Is there any evidence, other than the Orange one's tweet, that the wiretapping even took place?

If it did take place, the FBI or NSA might have been tapping phones belonging to Russian agents or businessmen who were under suspicion for some reason.

Has it been verified that a FISA warrent exists? This all seems to be pure speculation. FISA warrants are very difficult to verify, by their very nature. It is a felony to even disclose that one exists, let alone the contents or the target of the warrant.

I agree with Lindsay Graham, when he says he would be very disturbed to find that a POTUS tapped the phones of a POTUS-elect, illegally.

However, Graham also said he would be disturbed that a POTUS could/would do this legally? What did he mean by that? Did be mean that he would be worried if there were sufficient evidence for some LEO to obtain such a warrant, or is he worried that such warrants exist?

I don't agree with Graham on very many issues, but lately, he has been one of the only adult republicans on capital hill.


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Dan1100
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#18

Post by Dan1100 »

kate520 wrote:I read that one of his non-publicly signed EOs changed the order of succession at DOJ so that his little poodle, Boente, will be acting AG.

The order appears to be the first that Trump has not signed in a public ceremony. It's dated Thursday — the same day Attorney General Jeff Sessions was sworn in — but was not posted to the White House website until Friday morning. The White House did not explain the discrepancy.

The executive order spells out who will act as the nation's highest law enforcement officer if the attorney general dies, resigns or becomes incapacitated. Such orders have been routine since the 2001 terrorist attacks, but Trump's is notable becomes it comes two weeks after he fired acting Attorney General Sally Yates for refusing to defend his executive order banning travelers from seven predominately Muslim countries.

That time, Trump went outside the official order of succession — as he has the right to do — to elevate Dana Boente, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, to acting attorney general.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /97752898/
I wouldn't be so quick to say Boente is Trump's poodle. He is a long time career prosecutor. What he did (give the President's arguments in court and let the chips fall where they may) is probably what most lawyers would do in the same situation.

Totally baseless speculation is that Boente is getting ready to appoint an Independent Counsel (or whatever it is called now) and that is what Sessions is being called to Mara Lago to talk about.


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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#19

Post by Sugar Magnolia »

noblepa wrote:Has this alleged wiretap even been verified? Obama has issued a denial that anyone in his WH requested such surveilence.

Of course, there are other agencies that could have done so, such as the FBI or the NSA.

Is there any evidence, other than the Orange one's tweet, that the wiretapping even took place?

If it did take place, the FBI or NSA might have been tapping phones belonging to Russian agents or businessmen who were under suspicion for some reason.

Has it been verified that a FISA warrent exists? This all seems to be pure speculation. FISA warrants are very difficult to verify, by their very nature. It is a felony to even disclose that one exists, let alone the contents or the target of the warrant.
I agree with Lindsay Graham, when he says he would be very disturbed to find that a POTUS tapped the phones of a POTUS-elect, illegally.

However, Graham also said he would be disturbed that a POTUS could/would do this legally? What did he mean by that? Did be mean that he would be worried if there were sufficient evidence for some LEO to obtain such a warrant, or is he worried that such warrants exist?

I don't agree with Graham on very many issues, but lately, he has been one of the only adult republicans on capital hill.
So Trump committed a felony by tweeting about it?


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Slarti the White
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#20

Post by Slarti the White »

noblepa wrote:Has this alleged wiretap even been verified? Obama has issued a denial that anyone in his WH requested such surveilence.

Of course, there are other agencies that could have done so, such as the FBI or the NSA.

Is there any evidence, other than the Orange one's tweet, that the wiretapping even took place?

If it did take place, the FBI or NSA might have been tapping phones belonging to Russian agents or businessmen who were under suspicion for some reason.

Has it been verified that a FISA warrent exists? This all seems to be pure speculation. FISA warrants are very difficult to verify, by their very nature. It is a felony to even disclose that one exists, let alone the contents or the target of the warrant.

I agree with Lindsay Graham, when he says he would be very disturbed to find that a POTUS tapped the phones of a POTUS-elect, illegally.

However, Graham also said he would be disturbed that a POTUS could/would do this legally? What did he mean by that? Did be mean that he would be worried if there were sufficient evidence for some LEO to obtain such a warrant, or is he worried that such warrants exist?

I don't agree with Graham on very many issues, but lately, he has been one of the only adult republicans on capital hill.
Graham articulated this very poorly, but I think he meant that, if a warrant was obtained legally, it would be very worrying that there were grounds for such. At least that interpretation seems most consistent with everything else he's said.

I dislike Senator Graham's politics too. also. (to put it mildly), but I agree that he's been one of the few adults in the room for the Republicans. Apparently there are still some Republicans with integrity left.


"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#21

Post by Skip Intro »

This "story" got started on the standard right wing fever sites, worked its way through all of them, then little Donny saw it and, idiot that he is, blasted out his accusation.

I wonder if his tweet fit about this screwed up his tee time down at the southern white house this morning? At least he'll be getting his favorite burned to a crisp steak with ketchup tonight with his famous wedge of iceberg lettuce salad.

Really GOP, isn't it time to start the process of removing this crackpot from office? You'll still have Pence to cut taxes for the rich, deport everyone you don't like, and destroy the country's safety net. What more do you assholes want?


In the Trump era anything is true if enough people believe it.
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#22

Post by tek »

Sugar Magnolia wrote: So Trump committed a felony by tweeting about it?
I'm in the camp that thinks everything Trump "knows" about this came from Breitbart..


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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#23

Post by Sugar Magnolia »

Dan1100 wrote:
kate520 wrote:I read that one of his non-publicly signed EOs changed the order of succession at DOJ so that his little poodle, Boente, will be acting AG.

The order appears to be the first that Trump has not signed in a public ceremony. It's dated Thursday — the same day Attorney General Jeff Sessions was sworn in — but was not posted to the White House website until Friday morning. The White House did not explain the discrepancy.

The executive order spells out who will act as the nation's highest law enforcement officer if the attorney general dies, resigns or becomes incapacitated. Such orders have been routine since the 2001 terrorist attacks, but Trump's is notable becomes it comes two weeks after he fired acting Attorney General Sally Yates for refusing to defend his executive order banning travelers from seven predominately Muslim countries.

That time, Trump went outside the official order of succession — as he has the right to do — to elevate Dana Boente, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, to acting attorney general.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /97752898/
I wouldn't be so quick to say Boente is Trump's poodle. He is a long time career prosecutor. What he did (give the President's arguments in court and let the chips fall where they may) is probably what most lawyers would do in the same situation.

Totally baseless speculation is that Boente is getting ready to appoint an Independent Counsel (or whatever it is called now) and that is what Sessions is being called to Mara Lago to talk about.
Doesn't the hearing for Rosenstein (or whatever his name is) begin Tuesday? Would Boente have enough time as acting AG to appoint someone as special prosecutor?


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Fortinbras
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#24

Post by Fortinbras »

I have no clue of the other tenants of Trump Tower (formerly the Bonwit Teller Building), but it's a prestigious address and likely to include a lot of high fliers with influence in banking and Wall Street, and perhaps one was involveed in some shady dealings. And at least one of those high fliers may have been destined for an ugly divorce. So it seems to me very likely that, IF there were a wire tap anywhere in the Trump Tower, it was tapping someone other than Trump and it was initiated by someone not in Washington.


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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Trump Tower FISA warrants

#25

Post by Sugar Magnolia »

Fortinbras wrote:I have no clue of the other tenants of Trump Tower (formerly the Bonwit Teller Building), but it's a prestigious address and likely to include a lot of high fliers with influence in banking and Wall Street, and perhaps one was involveed in some shady dealings. And at least one of those high fliers may have been destined for an ugly divorce. So it seems to me very likely that, IF there were a wire tap anywhere in the Trump Tower, it was tapping someone other than Trump and it was initiated by someone not in Washington.
A federal judge would issue a FISA warrant for a nasty divorce?


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