When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

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voxpopuluxe
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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#26

Post by voxpopuluxe » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:22 am

Jeffrey wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:05 am
... but to say he'll "stop at nothing" to invalidate the election is a little too close to saying he'll declare martial law and move dissidents into FEMA death camps.
Yeah, I mean, imagine a President putting his enemies in heavily guarded, secretive camps where people die? Totally nutso, right?

Anyway, like I wrote, I don't know what's going to happen next year and no one else does either, so questions like these are really just a way to gauge our fears. There's a pretty solid chance that Trump loses next year and goes away and lets us all pretend that the system works for a while longer; but I think it's absolutely foolish to believe that there isn't also a good chance that following a narrow—or even slightly larger—loss, he just says "fake news!" and then obstructs, bullies, and grinds down an opposition that will refuse to believe that the worst has finally happened and a sycophantic media that will either hail his greatness, blame "both sides," or gravely and chin-strokingly deplore him. The street protests will either be ineffective or treated as criminal disturbances and either way, he and his supporters will stake his legitimacy on the necessity of belittling or supressing them. Think 2000 on a much grander scale.

Because if we've learned nothing else over the last four years, we will have learned that when the most powerful man on Earth wants something, he can usually just take it because it's usually easier to let him have it than to confront him over it.

(This is the dynamic of an abusive relationship, one of which we are all in at this moment.)

(And besides, putting dissidents in FEMA camps is passé when you can rely on stochastic terrorism to keep them quiet enough and largely ineffective.)


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#27

Post by kate520 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:16 am

Watching the clips of the Proud Boys in Florida yesterday helped me see what might happen. All trump has to do is suggest that his enemies blah blah blah.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#28

Post by much ado » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:22 am

Foggy wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:43 am
He might be a tiny bit sullen at the inauguration ceremony for his successor.

:blink:

Why yes, it is Understatement Day.
He might refuse to show up, yelling that the inauguration of the new president is A SHAM! A FAKE!!



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#29

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:40 am

Umm... Good!


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#30

Post by noblepa » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:43 am

I think that, if he loses in 2020, he will bitch and moan about how the election was "stolen" by the democrats, and he will talk about refusing to leave, but I don't think he would actually lock himself in the WH on 1/20/2021 and refuse to come out.

I do think that he might very well refuse to participate in the transition. He may try to appear to be helping, but he will put obstacles in place that impede the incoming team from a smooth transition of power.

He might not show up for the inauguration. He's that petty.

The scary thing is that, were he to try it, I'm not sure that the republicans in Congress, the Senate in particular, would do anything to remove him.



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#31

Post by RVInit » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:13 pm

Republicans would not do or say anything. It would be left for everyone else to handle if Trump were to actually take some action that is outside of bounds. They absolutely won't do or say anything about his out of bounds ranting, that has become the norm for this asshole.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#32

Post by boots » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:15 pm

I disagree. I think a substantial portion of Republicans would have an issue with that. Not all, the partisan-blind wouldn't be included.



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#33

Post by noblepa » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:22 pm

What would be really ironic is if he were to actually win the popular vote but lose in the elector college.

You just know that he would scream loud and long, backed up by Fox News, that the election is therefore invalid and he should be allowed to continue as POTUS.

The man has no sense of irony.



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#34

Post by ZekeB » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:28 pm

noblepa wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:22 pm
What would be really ironic is if he were to actually win the popular vote but lose in the elector college.
I hope this doesn't happen. I want to see him soundly thrashed in both the electoral and popular votes. He needs to have his ego crushed. Let him suffer the biggest loss an incumbent ever suffered. For once give him some honest bragging rights.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#35

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:32 pm

Jeffrey wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:58 pm
I’m with sugar. It was stupid when people said it about Bush and Obama, it’s stupid to say it now about Trump. It’s trashy alarmism.
Bush and Obama didn't make comments, like Trump has, about being president longer than the Constitution allows, nor did they constantly express adoration of dictators.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#36

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:34 pm

RVInit wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:13 pm
Republicans would not do or say anything. It would be left for everyone else to handle if Trump were to actually take some action that is outside of bounds. They absolutely won't do or say anything about his out of bounds ranting, that has become the norm for this asshole.
McConnell has already said, if Trump loses in 2020, he is shutting it all down.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#37

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:37 pm

pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:43 am
To me the key question is "WWMD?"

What would McConnell do?
Hopefully McConnell won't get reelected, but, if so, THAT is the pivotal question.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#38

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:39 pm

Foggy wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:43 am
He might be a tiny bit sullen at the inauguration ceremony for his successor.


:blink:


Why yes, it is Understatement Day.
:thumbs:


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#39

Post by Sam the Centipede » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:40 pm

noblepa wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:22 pm
What would be really ironic is if he were to actually win the popular vote but lose in the elector college.
Can that realistically happen to a Republican candidate? Small, rural states tend to be Republican and it's them that are over-represented in the electoral college, isn't it?

I understand your thirst for the irony, but I agree with Zeke (no! don't turn on the muck-spreader!) that a crushing defeat for Trump—or whoever has the Republican nomination—is the ideal outcome.



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#40

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:11 pm

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:39 pm
Foggy wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:43 am
He might be a tiny bit sullen at the inauguration ceremony for his successor.


:blink:


Why yes, it is Understatement Day.
:thumbs:
I honestly don't see him showing up. Now here's hoping he proves me wrong.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#41

Post by voxpopuluxe » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:24 pm

noblepa wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:43 am
... I don't think he would actually lock himself in the WH on 1/20/2021 and refuse to come out.
Well, were the thing to be done, the crisis has to be manufactured starting on election night. And by "manufactured" I'm not even imagining some conspiracy to actually alter votes, merely an insistence that they were or might've been. During the days that follow, continue insisting on "irregularites" in key states while spokespeople on twitter and in the media insist that "no one really knows the precise result of the election, but the President is certain of his victory." Hamper and obstruct the transition by insisting that the "irregularities" need to be cleared up lest a "fake President" be installed. If opposition insists on beginning the transition, insist the "fake President" is trying to instigate a globalist-backed coup. #stopthecoup. Dismiss any violence or vandalism committed by the President's supporters as the result of people "being pushed too far." Condemn any violence or vandalism committed by the opposition as "terrorism." Insist that only "terrorists" or "criminals" are certain of an opposition victory. State that the opposition campaign has conceded the election, then state that they're "negotiating in bad faith" or that they are "indecisive." At some point, state that at this unprecendented moment in history, the Inauguration must be postponed for lack of certainty in the results and for the opposition's unwillingness to negotiate "fairly." Characterize an extra-legal extension of the President's term as "the will of the people." State that any effort to remove the President while electoral irregularities are being reviewed will be regarded as an attack on the integrity of the electoral process and will be a criminal matter. Briefly impose martial law on very small, select areas, and threaten to extend it more widely. Declare victory. Call doubters "sore losers," "agitators," "antifa," and "terrorists."

Again, who knows if any of this will happen? Probably not. Maybe there's still enough institutional inertia to force him out regardless. But I think anyone who thinks it can't happen is ignoring a lot that's already happened.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#42

Post by much ado » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:30 pm

voxpopuluxe wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:24 pm
noblepa wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:43 am
... I don't think he would actually lock himself in the WH on 1/20/2021 and refuse to come out.
Well, were the thing to be done, the crisis has to be manufactured starting on election night. And by "manufactured" I'm not even imagining some conspiracy to actually alter votes, merely an insistence that they were or might've been. During the days that follow, continue insisting on "irregularites" in key states while spokespeople on twitter and in the media insist that "no one really knows the precise result of the election, but the President is certain of his victory." Hamper and obstruct the transition by insisting that the "irregularities" need to be cleared up lest a "fake President" be installed. If opposition insists on beginning the transition, insist the "fake President" is trying to instigate a globalist-backed coup. #stopthecoup. Dismiss any violence or vandalism committed by the President's supporters as the result of people "being pushed too far." Condemn any violence or vandalism committed by the opposition as "terrorism." Insist that only "terrorists" or "criminals" are certain of an opposition victory. State that the opposition campaign has conceded the election, then state that they're "negotiating in bad faith" or that they are "indecisive." At some point, state that at this unprecendented moment in history, the Inauguration must be postponed for lack of certainty in the results and for the opposition's unwillingness to negotiate "fairly." Characterize an extra-legal extension of the President's term as "the will of the people." State that any effort to remove the President while electoral irregularities are being reviewed will be regarded as an attack on the integrity of the electoral process and will be a criminal matter. Briefly impose martial law on very small, select areas, and threaten to extend it more widely. Declare victory. Call doubters "sore losers," "agitators," "antifa," and "terrorists."

Again, who knows if any of this will happen? Probably not. Maybe there's still enough institutional inertia to force him out regardless. But I think anyone who thinks it can't happen is ignoring a lot that's already happened.
Gregg posted a scenario on Sunday. Add this to the above...

https://thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 8#p1094540



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#43

Post by Dolly » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:30 pm



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#44

Post by Foggy » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:38 pm

It would be a different thread, but I wonder how we should amend the Constitution to prevent anyone like him from being elected in the future. It's crystal clear that the Constitution failed in 2016, and it needs to be fixed. After all the years in which I thought the Constitution was a truly great document, we have a kakistocracy in this great land of ours today - government by the worst possible people. The Constitution is broken and wounded and severely damaged, IMHO. We should have a thread about what could be done to fix it.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#45

Post by ZekeB » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:06 pm

noblepa wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:43 am
I think that, if he loses in 2020, he will bitch and moan about how the election was "stolen" by the democrats, and he will talk about refusing to leave, but I don't think he would actually lock himself in the WH on 1/20/2021 and refuse to come out.
It would be neat if he did lock himself in the WH. I'll be the first to point out to the Marshal's Office how they dealt with John Wilkes Booth.


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#46

Post by much ado » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:23 pm

ZekeB wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:06 pm
noblepa wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:43 am
I think that, if he loses in 2020, he will bitch and moan about how the election was "stolen" by the democrats, and he will talk about refusing to leave, but I don't think he would actually lock himself in the WH on 1/20/2021 and refuse to come out.
It would be neat if he did lock himself in the WH. I'll be the first to point out to the Marshal's Office how they dealt with John Wilkes Booth.
I'd love for Trump to leave his mark in history books under the heading 'The Defenestration of Donald Trump' describing how he was thrown out a second-floor window of the White House.

See the Defenestrations of Prague.



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#47

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:06 pm

Here's my take, for whatever it's worth. I think trump will slink back to NY or Maralargo and hide out and pout, leaving his kids and his minions to hit the bobblehead shows talking up the *stolen* election. If his crazies decide to take action, his hands are either clean (if they fail) or he led the revolt (if it looks like they may succeed). No, I don't think they would succeed but Fox News will tell him it is. I can already hear Hannity, "Just hold on a bit longer, President trump, we'll get you back to the WH..."


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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#48

Post by Jeffrey » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:06 pm

Slim Cognito wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:06 pm
If his crazies decide to take action, his hands are either clean
For the record, I think there will be lone wolf attacks. In fact that’s almost guaranteed.



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#49

Post by Dave at Sea » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:11 pm

You only need to ensure 270 people support Donnie and regardless of the wishes of the other 350 Million he would be the President in 2020.

"The Electoral College consists of 538 electors, and an absolute majority of 270 electoral votes is required to win an election."



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Re: When Trump loses 2020 and refuses to accept the results…

#50

Post by Dave at Sea » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:13 pm

Jeffrey wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:06 pm
Slim Cognito wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:06 pm
If his crazies decide to take action, his hands are either clean
For the record, I think there will be lone wolf attacks. In fact that’s almost guaranteed.
Already happening

Along with some wolf packs attacks

Expect Donnie guarantees that there will be many* more

*edit for clarity



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