"Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

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NMgirl
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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#26

Post by NMgirl » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:54 pm

woodworker wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:35 pm
:snippity:
Yes, a thousand times yes, especially re: Woodward. IIRC, he was so full of good words about "W" until it was clear to everyone that the Iraq war was a fucking nightmare and then, all of a sudden, Steno Bob changed his tune.

We are going to hear a lot about all of these selfless heroic staffers, et al, who are trying their best to protect America. Bullfuckingshit. They agree with his economic, domestic and most of his foreign policies -- they just wish Trump were more discreet and "civil" about them. They love his immigration policies, but just wish they had been quieter about the family separations. Consider, e.g., Gary Cohn, oh so upset about Charlottesville and how his daughter had a swastika put on her door. Quelle horreur, he was shocked and appalled, but obviously not too shocked and appalled as he was willing to hang around for the tax cuts.
A-fucking-men. :like:
Stern: Come back. My posts are becoming sloppy and ill-thought out.

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#27

Post by bob » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:12 pm

CNN:
There is a pointed shot at Ivanka from the President's now-ostracized chief strategist Steve Bannon, who frequently clashed with the first daughter and her husband.

"You're nothing but a fucking staffer!" Bannon screamed at Ivanka at a staff meeting, according to Woodward. "You walk around this place and act like you're in charge, and you're not. You're on staff!"

"I'm not a staffer!" she shouted back. "I'll never be a staffer. I'm the first daughter" — she really used the title, Woodward writes — "and I'm never going to be a staffer!"
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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#28

Post by Chilidog » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:25 pm

Oy vey

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#29

Post by Addie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:35 am

Axios
Furious Trump trapped by hundreds of Woodward tapes

President Trump is livid at the betrayal and stunning allegations in Bob Woodward’s forthcoming "Fear," but limited in his ability to fight back because most of the interviews were caught on hundreds of hours of tape, officials tell Axios.

The big picture: The book, out Tuesday from Simon & Schuster, re-creates — verbatim — page after page of private conversations with him. The 420-page portrait is all the more damaging because many of the scenes concern foreign policy and national security — truly heavy stuff.
In one emblematic passage, Woodward writes: "The operations of the Oval Office and White House were less the Art of the Deal and more often the Unraveling of the Deal. The unraveling was often right before your eyes, a Trump rally on continuous loop. There was no way not to look."
After the Washington Post posted excerpts yesterday, administration officials did little to deny specific revelations in the book, and instead spent the day speculating about Woodward's likely sources.
One reason that few passages are being disputed: Woodward based the book on hundreds of hours of tapes of his interviews with current and former West Wing aides and other top administration officials.
Democracy is a garden that has to be tended. -Barack Obama

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#30

Post by Addie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:44 am

Also:
Axios: Trump asks for change in libel laws after Woodward book

President Trump continued to tweet about his frustrations with Bob Woodward's forthcoming book, "Fear," on Wednesday morning, questioning the country's libel laws after claiming last night that the book is "a con on the public."
"Isn’t it a shame that someone can write an article or book, totally make up stories and form a picture of a person that is literally the exact opposite of the fact, and get away with it without retribution or cost. Don’t know why Washington politicians don’t change libel laws?"
Democracy is a garden that has to be tended. -Barack Obama

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#31

Post by Volkonski » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:46 am



Image
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#32

Post by Addie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:25 am

WaPo - Aaron Blake
Bob Woodward, and the hostages serving in Trump’s White House ...

So, in Woodward's telling, Trump's top advisers basically had to deceive or ignore him to prevent crises. They had to pretend he wasn't president to get by. They constantly resented Trump for making their jobs impossible.

Some of this could certainly just be aides spouting off — reflecting their stressful jobs and their stress-inducing boss. It's also possible some of them are emphasizing their differences with Trump to separate their own brands from him. The proud and ambitious people serving Trump may not like that they will forever be tied to him — whatever winds up resulting from his presidency — so in that way these stories leaking out could be beneficial to each and every one of them.

But you also get the sense that none of them are particularly thrilled with their jobs on any given day. They may make the most of their situations, given the power of their perches and the importance to the country. But on some level, the fact is that they stick around is because of the authority at Trump's fingertips — both because they share in that authority and because they are afraid of what he might do with it.

This is where leaks come from. These leaks might as well be from hostages who want you to know they're hostages — or may not quite know it themselves.
Let this sink in: "Trump's top advisers basically had to deceive or ignore him to prevent crises. They had to pretend he wasn't president to get by."
Democracy is a garden that has to be tended. -Barack Obama

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#33

Post by SLQ » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:28 am

Addie wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:44 am
Also:
Axios: Trump asks for change in libel laws after Woodward book

President Trump continued to tweet about his frustrations with Bob Woodward's forthcoming book, "Fear," on Wednesday morning, questioning the country's libel laws after claiming last night that the book is "a con on the public."
"Isn’t it a shame that someone can write an article or book, totally make up stories and form a picture of a person that is literally the exact opposite of the fact, and get away with it without retribution or cost. Don’t know why Washington politicians don’t change libel laws?"
So we’re back to that? Because defamation is state common law or state statutory law, you dumbbell. Also, first amendment. Also, truth is a complete defense. You actually are an idiot, you idiot. (Although point 4: opinion statements are not actionable as defamation.)

Edit: also, didn’t Trump file an anti-slapp motion against Stormy Daniels in CA? Seems as though he is not so fond of defamation laws when they’re used against him. Hypocrisy. But what’s new?
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try."
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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#34

Post by Addie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:50 am

Democracy is a garden that has to be tended. -Barack Obama

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#35

Post by neeneko » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:31 am

SLQ wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:28 am
So we’re back to that? Because defamation is state common law or state statutory law, you dumbbell. Also, first amendment. Also, truth is a complete defense.
That is kinda the point. He likes how the UK handles libel, where truth is not a complete defense and printing factual information can still violate the law.

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#36

Post by TollandRCR » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:43 am

I guess that I knew most all of this, but to have it all between the covers of a single book is daunting. I have hated Trump since the 1980s, when I lived in the City, but now we are all afflicted by this horrible man.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#37

Post by SLQ » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:04 am

neeneko wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:31 am
SLQ wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:28 am
So we’re back to that? Because defamation is state common law or state statutory law, you dumbbell. Also, first amendment. Also, truth is a complete defense.
That is kinda the point. He likes how the UK handles libel, where truth is not a complete defense and printing factual information can still violate the law.
Well, yeah, but In the U.S., Congress can't just up and change that. We have such things as state's rights and the Constitution. Funny how Individual-1 wants the federal government to be oh-so-powerful on this issue (that affects him directly) while kowtowing to the extreme right who wants to drown the federal government in the bathtub. Sigh. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#38

Post by TollandRCR » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:39 am

neeneko wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:31 am
SLQ wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:28 am
So we’re back to that? Because defamation is state common law or state statutory law, you dumbbell. Also, first amendment. Also, truth is a complete defense.
That is kinda the point. He likes how the UK handles libel, where truth is not a complete defense and printing factual information can still violate the law.
I doubt that Trump knows beans about UK libel laws. He knows only what pleases him. He would like to strike out at Woodward. Not that he would succeed.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#39

Post by verbalobe » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:50 am

I just hearken back to Obama's personal vendetta and hue-and-cry against D'Souza, Corsi, and others who printed scurrilous tomes of character assassination about him. How he raged! How he urged that the power of the state be levied against his enemies!

:sarcastic:

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#40

Post by neeneko » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:53 am

TollandRCR wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:39 am
I doubt that Trump knows beans about UK libel laws. He knows only what pleases him. He would like to strike out at Woodward. Not that he would succeed.
Trump and his family have been involved in libel suits in the UK over the years, he actually is familiar with how friendly they are to people like him.. they are kinda infamous for giving significant power to people with cash for silencing bad things being said about them. In court, you not only have to prove what you said was true, but also that it was neither misleading nor malicious.

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#41

Post by much ado » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:54 am

neeneko wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:53 am
TollandRCR wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:39 am
I doubt that Trump knows beans about UK libel laws. He knows only what pleases him. He would like to strike out at Woodward. Not that he would succeed.
Trump and his family have been involved in libel suits in the UK over the years, he actually is familiar with how friendly they are to people like him.. they are kinda infamous for giving significant power to people with cash for silencing bad things being said about them. In court, you not only have to prove what you said was true, but also that it was neither misleading nor malicious.
I think the UK has the law that needs to be changed, actually.

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#42

Post by Suranis » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Yep. The UK has laws which really are an ass.
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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#43

Post by Kendra » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:10 pm

Anyone have an opinion on the Kelly and Mattis statements and if someone else wrote them? I didn't see any signatures...

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#44

Post by neeneko » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:21 pm

much ado wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:54 am
I think the UK has the law that needs to be changed, actually.
Oddly enough, laws that favor people with full time lawyers over people who do not have them tend to be difficult to change.

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#45

Post by Whip » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:23 pm

neeneko wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:53 am
TollandRCR wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:39 am
I doubt that Trump knows beans about UK libel laws. He knows only what pleases him. He would like to strike out at Woodward. Not that he would succeed.
Trump and his family have been involved in libel suits in the UK over the years, he actually is familiar with how friendly they are to people like him.. they are kinda infamous for giving significant power to people with cash for silencing bad things being said about them. In court, you not only have to prove what you said was true, but also that it was neither misleading nor malicious.
the EU rules don't help now either. all scammers scamming evidence gets wiped from EU Google with one request.

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#46

Post by Dan1100 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:06 pm

Still when someone (let's call him Lying Individual-1), totally makes up out of whole cloth that someone else (lets call him President-44) wiretapped Lying Individual-1's wires and President-44 can't successfully sue Lying Individual-1, then some reform is in order.
"Devin Nunes is having a cow over this."

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#47

Post by much ado » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:20 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:06 pm
Still when someone (let's call him Lying Individual-1), totally makes up out of whole cloth that someone else (lets call him President-44) wiretapped Lying Individual-1's wires and President-44 can't successfully sue Lying Individual-1, then some reform is in order.
Why couldn't President-44 sue? He did not sue, but I don't think he could not sue.

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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#48

Post by bob » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:25 pm

much ado wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:20 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:06 pm
Still when someone (let's call him Lying Individual-1), totally makes up out of whole cloth that someone else (lets call him President-44) wiretapped Lying Individual-1's wires and President-44 can't successfully sue Lying Individual-1, then some reform is in order.
Why couldn't President-44 sue? He did not sue, but I don't think he could not sue.
Key word is "successfully"; anybody can sue anybody (see, e.g., Larry Klayman, Orly Taitz, Mario Apuzzo, etc.). Obama didn't sue because it would be essentially unwinnable, notwithstanding the falsity of the statements made about him.
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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#49

Post by Addie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:41 pm

BBC News: Why the Woodward effect damages Trump
The Hill: CNN: Trump searching for Woodward sources in White House
CNN: Woodward book prompts West Wing witch hunt, sources say
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Re: "Fear: Trump in the White House" by Bob Woodward - 9/11 Release

#50

Post by TexasFilly » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:57 pm

Addie wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:41 pm
BBC News: Why the Woodward effect damages Trump
The Hill: CNN: Trump searching for Woodward sources in White House
CNN: Woodward book prompts West Wing witch hunt, sources say

Hahahaha! It's not hard to figure out. For starters, Kellyanne. Woodward FREAKING TOLD HIM he'd had lunch with Kellyanne. Rob Porter. I think a simple review of the book would lead to many obvious answers.

Of course if there were competent professionals doing their jobs and and there wasn't a Dumbbell President, these questions would never arise.
I love the poorly educated!!!

I believe Anita Hill! I believe Dr. Ford!

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