All the President's pardons

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NMgirl
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Re: All the President's pardons

#126

Post by NMgirl »

Well now, this is going to be interesting, to say the least. :popcorn: Naval high command (if that is the correct terminology) vs. trump...
Donald J. @realDonaldTrump
The Navy will NOT be taking away Warfighter and Navy Seal Eddie Gallagher’s Trident Pin. This case was handled very badly from the beginning. Get back to business!


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Re: All the President's pardons

#127

Post by RTH10260 »

Let that order be put in writing dear liar-in-command :blackeye:


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Re: All the President's pardons

#128

Post by NMgirl »

Rear Admiral Collin Green has put his career on the line. Another courageous person is standing up to the OSG. :thumbs:

Trump: Navy will not strip sailor acquitted of murder of SEAL status

President Trump on Thursday pushed back on the military’s plans to strip a service member accused of misconduct of his status as a Navy SEAL, days after the president intervened to roll back other disciplinary actions against him and two other service members accused of war crimes.
“The Navy will NOT be taking away Warfighter and Chief Petty Officer Edward Gallagher’s Trident Pin,” the president said in a tweet. “This case was handled very badly from the beginning. Get back to business!”
The message followed reports that senior Navy officials had set in motion steps to remove the chief petty officer’s SEAL trident, which would effectively end his status as a member of the secretive, elite force. Earlier this year, a military court acquitted Gallagher of the majority of a series of war crimes charges relating to the battle against the Islamic State in Iraq, including charges of murdering a militant captive, but he was convicted of a lesser charge of posing for a photo with the man’s corpse.

The senior officer who drafted the steps to remove Gallagher from the SEALs, Rear Adm. Collin Green, oversees Naval Special Warfare Command. Green also sought to review whether three officers who oversaw Gallagher in Iraq also should be ejected from the SEALs. They are Lt. Cmdr. Robert Breisch, Lt. Jacob Portier and Lt. Thomas MacNeil. It was not immediately clear whether Trump’s directive applies to them as well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html


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Re: All the President's pardons

#129

Post by Jeffrey »

I didn’t know warfighter was a real word. Almost embarrassed myself making fun of Trump for not remembering the word “soldier”.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#130

Post by NMgirl »

In the pardon department, things are heating up. Your move, Cheeto Man.
@maggieNYT
· 1h
“The secretary of the Navy and the admiral who leads the SEALs have threatened to resign or be fired if plans to expel a commando from the elite unit in a war crimes case are halted by President Trump, administration officials said Saturday.” https://nytimes.com/2019/11/23/us/polit ... agher.html


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Re: All the President's pardons

#131

Post by NMgirl »

NMgirl wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:01 pm In the pardon department, things are heating up. Your move, Cheeto Man.
@maggieNYT
· 1h
“The secretary of the Navy and the admiral who leads the SEALs have threatened to resign or be fired if plans to expel a commando from the elite unit in a war crimes case are halted by President Trump, administration officials said Saturday.” https://nytimes.com/2019/11/23/us/polit ... agher.html
And... apparently the White House lied.
Nick Schifrin
@nickschifrin
BREAKING:
@USNavy
Secretary Spencer did NOT threaten to resign over Trump tweet telling Navy to drop disciplinary proceeding against recently pardoned SEAL, but Spencer won’t stop proceeding because doesn’t consider tweet a Presidential order, Spencer just told me at #HISF2019


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Re: All the President's pardons

#132

Post by MsDaisy »

Pentagon chief asks for Navy secretary’s resignation over private proposal in Navy SEAL’s case
Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper asked for the resignation of Navy Secretary Richard V. Spencer on Sunday after losing confidence in him over his handling of the case of a Navy SEAL accused of war crimes in Iraq, the Pentagon said.

Spencer’s resignation came in the wake of the controversial case of Chief Petty Officer Edward Gallagher, a Navy SEAL who was accused of war crimes on a 2017 deployment. He was acquitted of murder but convicted in July of posing with the corpse of a captive.

Esper asked for Spencer’s resignation after learning that he had privately proposed to White House officials that if they did not interfere with proceedings against Gallagher, then Spencer would ensure that Gallagher was able to retire as a Navy SEAL, with his Trident insignia.

Spencer’s private proposal to the White House — which he did not share with Esper over the course of several conversations about the matter — contradicted his public position on the Gallagher case, chief Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said in a statement.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... eals-case/


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Re: All the President's pardons

#133

Post by tek »

Plenty of slime to go around.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#134

Post by NMgirl »

:dazed:
Steve Vladeck
@steve_vladeck
It’s not at all clear that the Secretary of Defense even has the authority to fire the Secretary of the Navy—who’s appointed by the President under 10 U.S.C. § 8013(a)(1):

https://law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/8013

§ 8013 says he’s subject to _direction_ of SecDef, but says nothing about removal.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#135

Post by SLQ »

President babyfingers (shamelessly stolen from twitter) can't say "You're Fired!"


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Re: All the President's pardons

#136

Post by Sam the Centipede »

NMgirl wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:06 pm :dazed:
Steve Vladeck
@steve_vladeck
It’s not at all clear that the Secretary of Defense even has the authority to fire the Secretary of the Navy—who’s appointed by the President under 10 U.S.C. § 8013(a)(1):

https://law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/8013

§ 8013 says he’s subject to _direction_ of SecDef, but says nothing about removal.
Is that relevant? The Sec.Def. didn't fire the Sec.Nav.; he asked him to resign. The Sec.Nav. could respond "I won't, you'll have to get the President to fire me if that's what you want." But in an untenable position, going quietly is probably the easier option.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#137

Post by Gregg »

I'd be like "Tell that fat phuck to grow some nutz and bring his fat ass down here and fire me, or STFU"

Which is one of the reasons I was never Secretary of the Navy.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#138

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Sam the Centipede wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:53 am The Sec.Def. didn't fire the Sec.Nav.; he asked him to resign. The Sec.Nav. could respond "I won't, you'll have to get the President to fire me if that's what you want." But in an untenable position, going quietly is probably the easier option.
According to Spencer’s letter: “...I hereby acknowledge my termination as United States Secretary of the Navy, to be effective immediately.”

That doesn’t sound like a resignation.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#139

Post by Volkonski »

Zeke Miller
@ZekeJMiller
·
23m
WASHINGTON (AP) — Defense Secretary Esper says President Trump gave him direct order to stop disciplinary process for Navy SEAL.


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
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Re: All the President's pardons

#140

Post by TexasFilly »

Volkonski wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:25 am
Zeke Miller
@ZekeJMiller
·
23m
WASHINGTON (AP) — Defense Secretary Esper says President Trump gave him direct order to stop disciplinary process for Navy SEAL.

Esper says Trump ordered him to allow Gallagher to keep his Trident pin and remain a SEAL


(CNN)Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said President Donald Trump ordered him to allow a controversial Navy SEAL accused of war crimes to keep his status in the elite service, despite resistance from Navy leaders.

Esper said that on Sunday Trump "gave me an order" that Eddie Gallagher would retain his Trident, the pin worn by Navy SEALS that symbolizes their membership in the elite military community.

"The case of Eddie Gallagher has dragged on for months and has distracted too many. It must end," Esper said Monday. "Eddie Gallagher will retain his Trident as the Commander in Chief directed and will retire at the end of this month."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/25/politics ... index.html


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Re: All the President's pardons

#141

Post by tek »

The case of Eddie Gallagher Donald Trump has dragged on for months years and has distracted too many. It must end
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Re: All the President's pardons

#142

Post by RTH10260 »

Will there be a further article of impeachment: "Meddling with military procedures" ?


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Re: All the President's pardons

#143

Post by RTH10260 »

TexasFilly wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:55 am :snippity:
Esper says Trump ordered him to allow Gallagher to keep his Trident pin and remain a SEAL


(CNN)Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said President Donald Trump ordered him to allow a controversial Navy SEAL accused of war crimes to keep his status in the elite service, despite resistance from Navy leaders.

Esper said that on Sunday Trump "gave me an order" that Eddie Gallagher would retain his Trident, the pin worn by Navy SEALS that symbolizes their membership in the elite military community.

"The case of Eddie Gallagher has dragged on for months and has distracted too many. It must end," Esper said Monday. "Eddie Gallagher will retain his Trident as the Commander in Chief directed and will retire at the end of this month."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/25/politics ... index.html



Did Esper already pass this on in writing, how many down the chain of command will resign?


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Re: All the President's pardons

#144

Post by NMgirl »

Esper doesn’t appear to have absorbed the lesson that so many former trump minions have learned the hard way. The buck never stops with trump. It stops with his pusillanimous toady du jour with the bonus that the toady will be forever tarred with disgrace in the eyes of everybody in the world except the deplorables.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#145

Post by TexasFilly »

This is why I worry for Lt. Col. Vindman. The military will not stand up to Trump and will do his bidding. Trump will seek revenge, and the quislings will go along with it.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#146

Post by Maybenaut »

TexasFilly wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:30 pm This is why I worry for Lt. Col. Vindman. The military will not stand up to Trump and will do his bidding. Trump will seek revenge, and the quislings will go along with it.
The difference is that whatever they might do to Vindman — from placing unfavorable information into his record, or taking administrative or judicial action against him — is all actually reviewable by a federal court.

But there’s no review of any of these issues related to Gallagher, Clint Lorance, or Mathew Golsteyn. In other words, the president can do things for you, but he can’t do things to you without judicial review.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#147

Post by NMgirl »

Maybenaut wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:21 pm
TexasFilly wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:30 pm This is why I worry for Lt. Col. Vindman. The military will not stand up to Trump and will do his bidding. Trump will seek revenge, and the quislings will go along with it.
The difference is that whatever they might do to Vindman — from placing unfavorable information into his record, or taking administrative or judicial action against him — is all actually reviewable by a federal court.

But there’s no review of any of these issues related to Gallagher, Clint Lorance, or Mathew Golsteyn. In other words, the president can do things for you, but he can’t do things to you without judicial review.
:thumbs: :bighug: As always, it’s a pleasure to be educated by you, Maybenaut.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#148

Post by TexasFilly »

Your optimism is based on the pillars of our government holding up. Trump and Mitch McConnell have been stacking the courts with unqualified (and some just smart enough) political hacks. It's not like these people won't manufacture stuff against Vindman (see especially the testimony of Tim Morrison). The smear campaign was well underway last week. Vindman was able to bat down the "judgment" smear with Dr. Hill's evaluation, yet Morrison's smear included unfounded allegations of Vindman being a leaker, etc. I have no confidence that the military will do the right thing. The federal judiciary has become a crapshoot, the luck of the draw. These are very dangerous times.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#149

Post by GreatGrey »

Gallagher is gonna end up like Chris Kyle.

Or he’s gonna assault someone and get arrested. I give him 5 years before he’s in trouble or dead.


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Re: All the President's pardons

#150

Post by Fortinbras »

Ah ha, it turns out that Gallagher's lawyer has an 'in' with Trump:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/24/politics ... index.html


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