Michael Cohen

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woodworker
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Re: Michael Cohen

#2801

Post by woodworker » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm

Not just to be a contrarian, but I sort of believe that Cohen actually has had a legitimate change of heart (or conscience). I am not saying that he was not a slimy hustler, he was and probably still is. But I believe that, once (a) he was faced with all of what he had actually done for and with Trump, (b) he had to deal with how it was affecting his family, especially his daughter, (c) he realized the legal consequences of his action and his potential for serious jail time, and (d) Trump had publicly repudiated him, he had a real change of heart. And I believe he wants to see Trump and spawn burn in hell.

I don't know if was in this thread or elsewhere, but MikeD opined that he thought it highly unlikely that there was a true Russian/Trump conspiracy -- please correct me if I am mis-characterizing what you said Mike. (I should have posted then, but IIRC it was about the time I had just had my knee surgery and my ability to stay awake for more than 10 minutes was questionable.) But I think that was, and still is a real possibility. I doubt that either the Russians or Trump actually believed he would win, but the Russians wanted to fuck the US up as much as possible and, IMHO, Trump was more than willing to play along in return for his Moscow Tower and for the ability to stick it to the "establishment."

I doubt that Trump wanted to be POTUS -- too much responsibility and, as he has learned to his chagrin, much too much attention being paid to his affairs

Just my $.02.


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Re: Michael Cohen

#2802

Post by Azastan » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:56 pm

woodworker wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm
....IMHO, Trump was more than willing to play along in return for his Moscow Tower and for the ability to stick it to the "establishment."

I doubt that Trump wanted to be POTUS -- too much responsibility and, as he has learned to his chagrin, much too much attention being paid to his affairs

I do think that Trump really liked the idea that those snooty people who thought he was lower than dirt and wouldn't accept him into their elevated position in society would be forced to mingle with him, with him not just their equal, but much more important than any of them.



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2803

Post by Suranis » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:00 pm

I think Cohen was infatuated with Trump. Trump seems to have that effect on some people, soch as his social media director. I don't mean in a romantic sense, but simply that they became convinced they he was a great man and they hitced their wagon to him. and believed that they had a special relationship with a great man.

Jow Arpiao collected people like that who he got to do his dirty work, and who were always shocked when their friend Joe turned on them, abandoned them, and said he didn't know what they were doing leaving them to face the legal consequences of his actions.

Remember he waited for the better part of a year to turn evidence on Trump. I'm sure his lawyers were telling him to constantly, but he just could not do it. He wanted his friend Trump to lift just ONE FINGER to help him. Anything. But Trump didn't, and slowly he realized (a) that Trump didn't care back, (b) and that he wasted his life carrying water for a shithead. He was out of Trumps orbit and not in the constant presence of the great man, so he started to see the reality a little. He wasn't dazzled anymore.

That's hard for someone to accept, that you have wasted your life working for someone that completely fooled you. Before, he was contemptuous to everyone as they could not understand how Trump was really a marvelous guy. Now, not.

I think everything he has done is someone who is slowly coming out of cult programming. He probably just wants to get his time over with and to get away from the whole thing now.


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

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Re: Michael Cohen

#2804

Post by Maybenaut » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Azastan wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:56 pm
woodworker wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm
....IMHO, Trump was more than willing to play along in return for his Moscow Tower and for the ability to stick it to the "establishment."

I doubt that Trump wanted to be POTUS -- too much responsibility and, as he has learned to his chagrin, much too much attention being paid to his affairs

I do think that Trump really liked the idea that those snooty people who thought he was lower than dirt and wouldn't accept him into their elevated position in society would be forced to mingle with him, with him not just their equal, but much more important than any of them.
I don’t think Trump really likes *being* President, but I do think he wanted to get elected. I think if he knew what kind of miscroscope he and his family would be under, he never would have run. I also think, if he survives the first term, there’s a good chance he won’t run for reelection. He’ll have some lame-ass excuse — maybe his bone spurs will start acting up or something.


"Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Michael Cohen

#2805

Post by Foggy » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:08 pm



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That big green tree
With the water runnin' free
and it's waitin' there for you and me!

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Re: Michael Cohen

#2806

Post by Flatpointhigh » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:13 pm

Maybenaut wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:04 pm
Azastan wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:56 pm
woodworker wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm
....IMHO, Trump was more than willing to play along in return for his Moscow Tower and for the ability to stick it to the "establishment."

I doubt that Trump wanted to be POTUS -- too much responsibility and, as he has learned to his chagrin, much too much attention being paid to his affairs

I do think that Trump really liked the idea that those snooty people who thought he was lower than dirt and wouldn't accept him into their elevated position in society would be forced to mingle with him, with him not just their equal, but much more important than any of them.
I don’t think Trump really likes *being* President, but I do think he wanted to get elected. I think if he knew what kind of miscroscope he and his family would be under, he never would have run. I also think, if he survives the first term, there’s a good chance he won’t run for reelection. He’ll have some lame-ass excuse — maybe his bone spurs will start acting up or something.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... 8ae40f83d0
and the article linked to from wapo:
http://fortune.com/2000/04/03/what-does ... ally-want/
Trump had inked a deal with Tony Robbins, the frighteningly upbeat motivational speaker, by which Robbins would pay Trump $1 million to give ten speeches at his seminars around the country. Crucially, Trump had timed his political stops to coincide with Robbins’ seminars, so that he was “making a lot of money” on those campaign stops. “It’s very possible that I could be the first presidential candidate to run and make money on it,” Trump said,



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2807

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:16 pm

Exactly like the experiences of countless human literary characters with Satan.

The allure of a life of crime being indistiguishable from preferring to reign in hell rather than serving in heaven.

The rub being that only one can reign, and will show no respect to those who only serve in hell.

I’m just sayin’.


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Re: Michael Cohen

#2808

Post by Mikedunford » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:30 pm

woodworker wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm
I don't know if was in this thread or elsewhere, but MikeD opined that he thought it highly unlikely that there was a true Russian/Trump conspiracy -- please correct me if I am mis-characterizing what you said Mike. (I should have posted then, but IIRC it was about the time I had just had my knee surgery and my ability to stay awake for more than 10 minutes was questionable.) But I think that was, and still is a real possibility. I doubt that either the Russians or Trump actually believed he would win, but the Russians wanted to fuck the US up as much as possible and, IMHO, Trump was more than willing to play along in return for his Moscow Tower and for the ability to stick it to the "establishment."
I don't know that you were mischaracterizing it, but I'm not sure I was clear, either. Probably would be good to fix that.

Whether or not I think there was a true conspiracy depends on how we're defining "true conspiracy."

I don't think there was a "true conspiracy" in the sense that there was some sort of plot that both Putin and Trump were members of - and certainly not on anything like a co-equal or near co-equal basis. I also don't think there was a "true conspiracy" in the sense that the Russians were making extensive efforts with the deliberate plan of getting Trump to the Presidency. To the extent that there were activities carried out toward that end, I think they were much more likely to be opportunistic and carried out with a generalized goal of weakening the USA than in a serious attempt to plant a Manchurian candidate under their control in the White House.

On the other hand, I do think there's a decent chance that enough people have engaged in enough generalized stupidity that they've managed to meet all the elements for the charge of criminal conspiracy that involves both the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.


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Re: Michael Cohen

#2809

Post by Foggy » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:55 pm

Maybe not "true conspiracy," especially since neither Trump nor the Russians thought they'd be successful. But it was surely "true fuckery," in the sense that they worked together to damage Hillary Clinton as much as possible.

In the short term, Russia came out on top because whatever the basis (the basis is pee hookers), Putin owns the President of the United States of America.

And in the long run, Trump is going to be severely damaged; America is going to be severely damaged; and only Russia will come out with any benefit from the true fuckery.

We live in interesting times. :bag:


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With the water runnin' free
and it's waitin' there for you and me!

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Re: Michael Cohen

#2810

Post by HilltownGrrl » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:17 pm

Foggy wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:55 pm
Maybe not "true conspiracy," especially since neither Trump nor the Russians thought they'd be successful. But it was surely "true fuckery," in the sense that they worked together to damage Hillary Clinton as much as possible.

In the short term, Russia came out on top because whatever the basis (the basis is pee hookers), Putin owns the President of the United States of America.

And in the long run, Trump is going to be severely damaged; America is going to be severely damaged; and only Russia will come out with any benefit from the true fuckery.

We live in interesting times. :bag:
I am really, really tired of living in interesting times.


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Re: Michael Cohen

#2811

Post by woodworker » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:33 pm

Foggy wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:55 pm
Maybe not "true conspiracy," especially since neither Trump nor the Russians thought they'd be successful. But it was surely "true fuckery," in the sense that they worked together to damage Hillary Clinton as much as possible.

In the short term, Russia came out on top because whatever the basis (the basis is pee hookers), Putin owns the President of the United States of America.

And in the long run, Trump is going to be severely damaged; America is going to be severely damaged; and only Russia will come out with any benefit from the true fuckery.

We live in interesting times. :bag:
I largely agree with MikeD's clarification and take, as well as Foggy's. I agree that, to the extent there was a "conspiracy," Putin and Trump were nowhere near equals -- Putin is an ex-KGB officer and Trump was an asset who got used to further Putin's plans. I agree that neither of them expected Trump to win. Where I disagree, or at least I hope to disagree, is with the conclusion that Russia will benefit long-term from this. There is no doubt that this has seriously damaged the US, both internally, externally, has caused us to lose much of our moral (however undeserved it may be) and economic force, etc., etc. and it will take a long time to get over that. However, Putin has poisoned the well for himself and Russia once Trump is gone. No matter what party the coming Presidents are, there will be very little common ground / negotiations with Russia going forward (excepting things such as climate change, anti-nuclear expansion and such). And I may be seeing this through rose-colored glasses, but I suspect that China, et al, would much prefer to deal with a resurgent US than a resurgent Russia (post Trump). After all, it is in China's interest that the American economy remain strong and continue to buy lots of cheap crap from China, as well as keeping the American dollar strong (they hold a lot of dollars).

So, I think that after Trump our politicians will have, at least domestically, free rein to go after Russia and Russian interests: banks laundering Russian money - shut them down and seize the funds, US properties bought in order to move money out of Russia -- if they don't identify the real owners and that the money is clean, seize the properties, etc., etc., etc.

And, if as we all hope, the US continues to ramp up renewable energy, then we can use our excess oil production to drive the price of oil down, ditto with gas, and as far as I can see those are really the only two sources of income for Russia.

Just my $.02.


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Re: Michael Cohen

#2812

Post by Orlylicious » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:51 pm

Our economic might is unequaled. One thing about the Enquirer... they're print and print's dead. They're only alive because supermarkets keep carrying it by the checkout. Tell your store manager or checkout clerk The Enquirer has been blatantly offensive for too long (have Google Images open on your phone and show them a few of the covers, bet they never looked carefully) and say (Orly Taitz might say DEMAND) they should stop carrying it. That will do it.


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Re: Michael Cohen

#2813

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:54 am

Azastan wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:56 pm
woodworker wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm
....IMHO, Trump was more than willing to play along in return for his Moscow Tower and for the ability to stick it to the "establishment."

I doubt that Trump wanted to be POTUS -- too much responsibility and, as he has learned to his chagrin, much too much attention being paid to his affairs

I do think that Trump really liked the idea that those snooty people who thought he was lower than dirt and wouldn't accept him into their elevated position in society would be forced to mingle with him, with him not just their equal, but much more important than any of them.
I'm looking forward to his post-presidency social engagements. Where President Obama is spending his time attending galas for social causes and actually doing some good, I envision Trump attending hog callings and tractor pulls, surrounded by the very sort of people he disdains. And being noticed by no one but the Bubbas and Sonnys who attend, and the crowd outside loudly making fun of him. He'll spend the rest of his life surrounded by people who dip and chew.



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2814

Post by Mr Brolin » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:23 am

The Great Sand Worm really epitomises the phrases of

Lumpen
Useful Idiot
Fellow Traveller
"Capitalist roader"
"Degenerate, revisionist, petit-bourgeois nationalist, capitalist running dog"



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2815

Post by Kendra » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:43 am

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

Are the Trumpers at Fox preparing him for the worst? Geraldo was just on F&F while they discussed Cohen (heard Rat and Snitch used). While Cohen's words weren't taken at face value (fair), but...Geraldo cautioned that the Pecker catch and kill thing is a real risk. Good thing he can't be indicted while in office, good thing even if the House impeaches him, there's still a Republican majority so the Senate won't try him. And good thing the statute of limitations will expire once he's out of office so he can't be indicted then.

Haven't found the video yet.


Imagine if the person you most trust w your most intimate secrets--your longtime lawyer--agrees to tell prosecutors & the world everything about every shady deal, all the dirty work--maybe embellished to cause maximum damage. @realDonaldTrump cannot be happy. Will Senate hold?



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2816

Post by pipistrelle » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:51 am

Imagine your long-time lawyer adhering to rule of law. Whatta concept.

Will the Senate condone criminal activity? Sure, as long it's one of their criminals.



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2817

Post by Kendra » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:59 am

Here it is. Link broken to avoid any auto play issues like we had on another Fox video link.

https:// video.foxnews.com/v/5979562397001/?playlist_id=930909787001#sp=show-clips



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2818

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:03 am

Maybenaut wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:04 pm
Azastan wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:56 pm
woodworker wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm
....IMHO, Trump was more than willing to play along in return for his Moscow Tower and for the ability to stick it to the "establishment."

I doubt that Trump wanted to be POTUS -- too much responsibility and, as he has learned to his chagrin, much too much attention being paid to his affairs

I do think that Trump really liked the idea that those snooty people who thought he was lower than dirt and wouldn't accept him into their elevated position in society would be forced to mingle with him, with him not just their equal, but much more important than any of them.
I don’t think Trump really likes *being* President, but I do think he wanted to get elected. I think if he knew what kind of microscope he and his family would be under, he never would have run. I also think, if he survives the first term, there’s a good chance he won’t run for reelection. He’ll have some lame-ass excuse — maybe his bone spurs will start acting up or something.
Years ago I read somewhere that there are two types of people who run for public office, those who run in order to get things done and those who run in order to be somebody. Trump is of the second type, :(


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Re: Michael Cohen

#2819

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:41 am

Aaron Rupar

Verified account

@atrupar
1h1 hour ago
More
.@GStephanopoulos: Is Trump telling the truth about about everything related to Russia?

MICHAEL COHEN: No.

COHEN: "People don't believe what [Trump] is saying. The man doesn't tell the truth, & it's sad that I should take responsibility for his dirty deeds."

ABC: He's saying he didn't direct you.

COHEN: "He directed me... he was concerned about how this would affect the election.

ABC: You lied to Congress. Why should we believe you now?

COHEN: "Because the special counsel stated emphatically that the information I gave to them was credible & helpful. There's a substantial amount of info they possess that corroborates the fact that I am telling the truth"


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: Michael Cohen

#2820

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:43 am

ABC News

Verified account

@ABC
1h1 hour ago
More
"The gentleman that is sitting now in the Oval Office, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, is not the Donald Trump that I remember from Trump Tower," Michael Cohen tells @ABC.

"I think the pressure of the job is much more than what he thought it was going to be." https://abcn.ws/2EwGpEq


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: Michael Cohen

#2821

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:46 am

The New York Times

Verified account

@nytimes
2h2 hours ago
More
Breaking News: Michael Cohen said he knew that arranging hush payments to two women was wrong. And, he added in an ABC News interview, so did Donald Trump.


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: Michael Cohen

#2822

Post by RTH10260 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:20 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:43 am
ABC News @ABC

"The gentleman that is sitting now in the Oval Office, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, is not the Donald Trump that I remember from Trump Tower," Michael Cohen tells @ABC.

"I think the pressure of the job is much more than what he thought it was going to be." https://abcn.ws/2EwGpEq
I think I remember DJT saying pre-election "I will leave the governing to Mike Pence" and stay on the golf course



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2823

Post by Kendra » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:34 pm


Trouble for Trump

For campaign finance crimes, need to prove he “knew what the law forbade.”

Here’s President Trump in 2012 showing he knows about the law that applied to John Edwards.

Trump: “a lot of very good lawyers” talked to me about the case.
(h/t @renato_mariotti)



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2824

Post by RTH10260 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:45 pm

in the WaPo
Trump’s claim that he didn’t violate campaign finance law is weak — and dangerous
The case against the president would be far stronger than the case against John Edwards was.

By George T. Conway III , Trevor Potter and Neal Katyal December 14 at 6:00 AM

Last week, in their case against Michael Cohen, federal prosecutors in New York filed a sentencing brief concluding that, in committing the felony campaign-finance violations to which he pleaded guilty, Cohen had “acted in coordination with and at the direction of Individual-1,” President Trump. And this week, prosecutors revealed that they had obtained an agreement from AMI, the parent company of the National Enquirer, in which AMI admitted that it, too, had made an illegal payment to influence the election. The AMI payment was the product of a meeting in which Trump was in the room with Cohen and AMI President David Pecker.

This all suggests Trump could become a target of a very serious criminal campaign finance investigation. In response, Trump has offered up three defenses. His first was to repeatedly lie. For quite some time, he flatly denied knowledge about the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels. But now he seems to be acknowledging that he knew (since his personal company reimbursed Cohen for the payment, he ought to). Now Trump and his acolytes have turned to two other excuses: They point to an earlier case involving former senator John Edwards to argue that what Trump did wasn’t a crime; and they say, even if it was a crime, it wasn’t a biggie — there are lots of crimes, so what, who cares.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... dangerous/



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Re: Michael Cohen

#2825

Post by Gregg » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:51 pm

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:54 am
Azastan wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:56 pm
woodworker wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm
....IMHO, Trump was more than willing to play along in return for his Moscow Tower and for the ability to stick it to the "establishment."

I doubt that Trump wanted to be POTUS -- too much responsibility and, as he has learned to his chagrin, much too much attention being paid to his affairs

I do think that Trump really liked the idea that those snooty people who thought he was lower than dirt and wouldn't accept him into their elevated position in society would be forced to mingle with him, with him not just their equal, but much more important than any of them.
I'm looking forward to his post-presidency social engagements. Where President Obama is spending his time attending galas for social causes and actually doing some good, I envision Trump attending hog callings and tractor pulls, surrounded by the very sort of people he disdains. And being noticed by no one but the Bubbas and Sonnys who attend, and the crowd outside loudly making fun of him. He'll spend the rest of his life surrounded by people who dip and chew.
He'll spend the rest of his life giving speeches in Eastern Europe, because he needs the money.


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