Bundy related gossip and discussion

Jeffrey
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Jeffrey »

Okay looked it up, they really are fighting for the right of parents to let their kids die of cancer. :brickwallsmall:
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Foggy
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Foggy »

Well, sure. The kid is their property, and the only reason the doctor wants to do surgery is that the tumor is very "rare". And rare means valuable, amirite? The damn doctor is probably gonna sell the tumor on the little-known "rare tumor" market, and get rich! Rich! Richer than Santa Claus!

So naturally, Ammon Eggs and Kelli Stewart and probably John Lamb (Last Free Man) are all screaming "ME! ME! LOOK AT ME! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!" just like it says in the Bible and the Constitution.

And one thing I read said that the girl only has a 35% chance of survival anyway, even with the surgery. Ammon Eggs is already threatening violence against people by name, including the surgeon, apparently. If she dies in surgery or shortly after surgery, expect him to make this his new Big Thing for leading the poots into the maelstrom.
Buckle up, peeps, this ride is gonna get BUMPY. :shock:
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Curmudgeon
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Curmudgeon »

Here's what is apparently the latest Oregonian story:
https://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascou ... rgery.html
Delusion: A poot who thinks that he/she is one of "we the people." ;)
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neeneko
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by neeneko »

Jeffrey wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:16 am Okay looked it up, they really are fighting for the right of parents to let their kids die of cancer. :brickwallsmall:
Apparently the kid is also saying 'no' to the surgery, so I kinda have to agree with this being messed up. If the kid wanted it and the parent was stonewalling, screw the parent. If the kid is saying no too, that is a bodily autonomy issue and no matter how dumb the kid is, the state has no right to force surgery on them.
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Curmudgeon
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Curmudgeon »

neeneko wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:02 pm Apparently the kid is also saying 'no' to the surgery, so I kinda have to agree with this being messed up. If the kid wanted it and the parent was stonewalling, screw the parent. If the kid is saying no too, that is a bodily autonomy issue and no matter how dumb the kid is, the state has no right to force surgery on them.
As far as I know, the state does not consider 13-year-olds competent to make their own decisions on many issues, e.g. sex, mariage, smoking, etc.
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Fiona
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Fiona »

I am licensed to practice (nursing) in Oregon, the age of consent is 15. The legal guardian is the person providing consent for surgery for those under 15.
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LtDansLegs
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by LtDansLegs »

Foggy wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:29 pm Well, sure. The kid is their property, and the only reason the doctor wants to do surgery is that the tumor is very "rare". And rare means valuable, amirite? The damn doctor is probably gonna sell the tumor on the little-known "rare tumor" market, and get rich! Rich! Richer than Santa Claus!
First they stole the rare yooranium from under the Hammonds ranch, now they done want r too-murs.
Jeffrey
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Jeffrey »

Yeah I’m not sure either that a 13 year old should be allowed to commit suicide by refusing surgery. Particularly when the mom clearly is pressuring.
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Fiona
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Fiona »

:yeah:
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neeneko
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by neeneko »

Curmudgeon wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:09 pm As far as I know, the state does not consider 13-year-olds competent to make their own decisions on many issues, e.g. sex, mariage, smoking, etc.
I know this gets into a really contentious area, with people having different ideas about how many rights a minor should have when. But for me, forced surgery is a hard line regardless of age. There should not be any age where other people get to decide if one is going to have their body cut open and things done to it, esp since as a a society we have been moving more and more towards children being able to say 'no, do not touch me', even to doctors and police.
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DejaMoo
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by DejaMoo »

"Orac" is David Gorski, an oncologist who blogs about quack medicines. He's researched and written about this case, which can be read here:
https://respectfulinsolence.com/2019/08 ... on-cancer/

One of the first points he makes is that Kylee's mom has heavily influenced her against doctors and established medicine. Kylee's a kid. She's been scared into believing the bullshit her mom believes, so she's on her mom's side, not her own.
I was particularly saddened at how Christina Dixon turned her child against doctors. There’s a point where Kylee talks about how her mother took her off of chemotherapy and put her on seven different “natural” treatments to “heal” her. She got better within three months. Of course, if you take someone off of chemotherapy, of course the side effects will go away! The problem is that the cancer is no longer being treated. As a result, that improvement is often transient, lasting only until the cancer starts progressing again. In any event, in the video, Kylee says that the doctors “didn’t like” that her mom had gotten her better with natural treatments and reported her mom to Child Protective Services (CPS). The saddest part, to me, was where she asked who was fighting for her, saying that no one is fighting for her besides her mom, who can’t afford an attorney and had to quit her business to take care of her. In fact, CPS and her doctors were (and are) fighting for her. They’re fighting to save her life, even going so far as to take the unpopular, painful, and traumatic step of terminating her mother’s parental rights to make medical decisions and putting Kylee into foster care.
Kylee's mom is a paranoid crank:
...I had witnessed way too much and seen what happened with the other kids up in that hospital in the cancer unit, when parents were gone for hours and days at a time and they would leave their ill child there all alone at the hands of the Doctors that are now controlled and and regulated by FDA’s new contract to reduce population!
Orac further notes that although the long-term survival rate for this type of cancer used to be only about 35%, advances in treatments has substantially improved the patients' odds:
However, the prognosis has slowly improved as these patients are managed with multimodal treatment, including radiation therapy and chemotherapy.
:snippity:
Studies have shown improved survival rates, ranging from 70% to 100%, in patients who were treated with multimodal therapy. The recurrence rate in UESL is higher during the first 2 years after surgery, and the risk is higher with positive resection margins and cases with spontaneous or iatrogenic rupture of the hepatic lesion.
Orac concludes
In the end, though, contrary to what so many people believe, parental rights are not absolute. The child is not the parents’ property. She is not a body appendage. She is a separate being with the right not to be medically neglected. Because the child is too young to make such momentous medical decisions on her own, she must trust her parents to do the right thing, and, unfortunately, when the parents fail to do the right thing sometimes the state has no choice but to step in to save the child’s life, even if it is against the child’s will.
I've heard this bull before.
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Fiona
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Fiona »

I hear your point about minors and surgery. I am going to respectfully agree to disagree. Based on neurocognitive development the prefrontal cortex/executive function isn't developed enough at 13 to determine the best course of action when dealing with this situation. Never mind the mother appears to have a bias in this situation. Personally I am a HUGE proponent of patient autonomy when dealing with adults/ minors and medical decisions. Professionally, I think this is the best decision for this patient. But you all know opinions are like orifices, we all have them.
Jeffrey
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Jeffrey »

I’d argue for letting the 13 year old decide in a hypothetical where the surgery would only extend her life by a few weeks or months or a surgery with a low success rate, but the Oregonian article and Orac article both make it clear the surgery has a high chance of success. The 13 year old isn’t making a rational cost benefit analysis. I don’t have a problem with the state stepping in.
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Fiona
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Fiona »

In this case, neither do I. It is really for the best IMO. I was not clear. My response was to the comment above yours. Sometimes posting on FB using my phone is a bit wonky.
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pipistrelle
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by pipistrelle »

I am not optimistic about the girl's survival, based on what little I know, that is, the treatment was stopped, which is lost critical time. All these "patriots" like KK and Ammo are getting themselves involved with people they didn't know in a situation they know even less about. I'm under the impression KK is making a nuisance of herself.
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scirreeve
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by scirreeve »

BJ drove the Mom to the hospital today. Lots of nonsense posts from KK (who knows nothing about the case). Amhole posted shit about it today too. Mom shouldn't be aligning with the nutz.
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Volkonski
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Volkonski »

Cheri Wilson 🤟🌊🧷🗽
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#Oregon anti govt #extremist BJ Soper wants you to put a real rope around real politicians throats and threaten to hang them if they don't submit to their will. Some may remember Soper from the 2016 armed #Oregonstandoff.
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Grumpy Old Guy
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Grumpy Old Guy »

Somebody else should hang politicians, not Soper.

Poot cowardice at work.

How many were actually at Richmond? Not 150 thousand.
Jeffrey
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Jeffrey »

What’s going on with the Kylee girl, last Oregonian update was 5 days ago.
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scirreeve
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by scirreeve »

Jeffrey wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:19 pm What’s going on with the Kylee girl, last Oregonian update was 5 days ago.
She was evidently discharged from the hospital yesterday - poots don't know where she is. They moved their protest to DHS (CPS) office and got trespassed. Many threats against the caseworker which law enforcement is taking seriously. If you want to see KK making an ass of herself yesterday watch this.
Jeffrey
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Jeffrey »

So we can infer that the surgery they tried to prevent went well.
jemcanada
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by jemcanada »

At 24:47 is KK comparing the girl getting life saving cancer surgery to sexual assault?
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pipistrelle
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by pipistrelle »

Good to see Lamb standing around better than I can.
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pipistrelle
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by pipistrelle »

Jeffrey wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:04 pm So we can infer that the surgery they tried to prevent went well.
No. KK doesn’t know if she’s alive or dead. And no one will tell her.
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Volkonski
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Re: Bundy related gossip and discussion

Post by Volkonski »

pipistrelle wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:11 pm
Jeffrey wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:04 pm So we can infer that the surgery they tried to prevent went well.
No. KK doesn’t know if she’s alive or dead. And no one will tell her.
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