Bundy Trials - Nevada

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Kendra
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4501

Post by Kendra »

Well then. I see from the photos of Shawnanana's float at today's parade she's touting some speshul website: http://helpfreeclivenbundy.org/

Note, on the contact page is a horrendous misspelling of Reno. Whatever, but a quick google of the address there appears to be a mail box place. I had to go and hunt down the whois for the website contact for kicks.

https://www.whois.com/whois/helpfreeclivenbundy.org

Who is:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/bund ... doff-case/
Longtime Las Vegas attorney Bret Whipple has agreed to defend rancher Cliven Bundy in the Bunkerville standoff case.

Whipple filed notice late Monday that Bundy has retained him in the high-profile case, which is set for trial on Feb. 6 before Chief U.S. District Judge Gloria Navarro.

Earlier this month, the veteran defense lawyer estimated that his legal services would cost Bundy $150,000 but said the fee was negotiable.

Bundy, who is in federal custody, has indicated in court that he has roughly $312,000 in assets, mostly tied up in his Bunkerville ranch and cattle.

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NMgirl
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4502

Post by NMgirl »

There are two new topics for the Bundy Ranch standoff:

Bundy Ranch Trial #1--The Retrial of Parker, Drexler, Lovelien, Stewart.

Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

I'll post the Trial #3 topic tomorrow, which is Mel & Dave, et alia.

Friday Night Document Dumps will be posted under the appropriate trial numbers.

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pipistrelle
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4503

Post by pipistrelle »

Kendra wrote:Bundy, who is in federal custody, has indicated in court that he has roughly $312,000 in assets, mostly tied up in his Bunkerville ranch and cattle.
Does anyone know how much of the $1 million he owes is fees vs. fines? If he has only $312,000 in assets, and most of it's in real estate and cattle (how much are those out-of-control cattle worth now?), did he have enough to pay the grazing fees? I remember that they seemed pretty nominal.

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Kendra
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4504

Post by Kendra »

NMgirl wrote:There are two new topics for the Bundy Ranch standoff:

Bundy Ranch Trial #1--The Retrial of Parker, Drexler, Lovelien, Stewart.

Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

I'll post the Trial #3 topic tomorrow, which is Mel & Dave, et alia.

Friday Night Document Dumps will be posted under the appropriate trial numbers.
Thanks for getting these all set up.

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Kendra
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4505

Post by Kendra »

pipistrelle wrote:
Kendra wrote:Bundy, who is in federal custody, has indicated in court that he has roughly $312,000 in assets, mostly tied up in his Bunkerville ranch and cattle.
Does anyone know how much of the $1 million he owes is fees vs. fines? If he has only $312,000 in assets, and most of it's in real estate and cattle (how much are those out-of-control cattle worth now?), did he have enough to pay the grazing fees? I remember that they seemed pretty nominal.
No idea, but fees and fines can add up pretty quickly. A $4,000 bond suit against a contractor in WA can add up pretty quickly with the legal fees involved after judgment is obtained. Then the interest keeps ticking. It adds up quickly.

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neeneko
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4506

Post by neeneko »

Kendra wrote:Bundy, who is in federal custody, has indicated in court that he has roughly $312,000 in assets, mostly tied up in his Bunkerville ranch and cattle.
I wonder if he is including all the federal land he claims in that estimate.... which I could see as a long poot plan for trying to bring up the legality of federal ownership again. Not a good plan, but I could see them trying.

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maydijo
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4507

Post by maydijo »

neeneko wrote:
Kendra wrote:Bundy, who is in federal custody, has indicated in court that he has roughly $312,000 in assets, mostly tied up in his Bunkerville ranch and cattle.
I wonder if he is including all the federal land he claims in that estimate.... which I could see as a long poot plan for trying to bring up the legality of federal ownership again. Not a good plan, but I could see them trying.
I can't find the source now, but from memory, his actual landholdings are worth less than $100,000. And doesn't the government technically own the cattle because of his unpaid fees and fines?

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pipistrelle
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4508

Post by pipistrelle »

maydijo wrote:
neeneko wrote:
Kendra wrote:Bundy, who is in federal custody, has indicated in court that he has roughly $312,000 in assets, mostly tied up in his Bunkerville ranch and cattle.
I wonder if he is including all the federal land he claims in that estimate.... which I could see as a long poot plan for trying to bring up the legality of federal ownership again. Not a good plan, but I could see them trying.
I can't find the source now, but from memory, his actual landholdings are worth less than $100,000. And doesn't the government technically own the cattle because of his unpaid fees and fines?
Wouldn't his house be worth at least $100,000? At least around here, there's nothing I know of under 6 figures.

He owns a quarter section. I still can't believe that would suffice as a "ranch," especially in land as poor as it is (which in my opinion should never have been used for cattle).

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Northland10
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4509

Post by Northland10 »

pipistrelle wrote:Wouldn't his house be worth at least $100,000? At least around here, there's nothing I know of under 6 figures.

He owns a quarter section. I still can't believe that would suffice as a "ranch," especially in land as poor as it is (which in my opinion should never have been used for cattle).
I don't about the Bunkerville area, but in the NW Kansas town where my Grandfather lived, you can still find some houses that are under 100k (actual stick built houses, not mobile or modular). Western Kansas has been dropping in population for decades which I assume keeps prices down.
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NMgirl
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4510

Post by NMgirl »

Kendra wrote:Well then. I see from the photos of Shawnanana's float at today's parade she's touting some speshul website: http://helpfreeclivenbundy.org/
I'm posting this on the Bundy Trials-Nevada thread so I don't threadjack the new Bundy Ranch Trial #1 topic.

Andrea Olson-Parker passed out 800 jury nullification pamphlets at the parade. (Heads up to the prosecutors!)

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pipistrelle
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4511

Post by pipistrelle »

NMgirl wrote:
Kendra wrote:Well then. I see from the photos of Shawnanana's float at today's parade she's touting some speshul website: http://helpfreeclivenbundy.org/
I'm posting this on the Bundy Trials-Nevada thread so I don't threadjack the new Bundy Ranch Trial #1 topic.

Andrea Olson-Parker passed out 800 jury nullification pamphlets at the parade. (Heads up to the prosecutors!)
Was this in Vegas?

It's your duty and right!

Do the pamphlets mention the Millers?

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pipistrelle
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4512

Post by pipistrelle »

Help us build a network of people that believe the Government has to much power.
From the folks whose intrerpretational skilz iz bettrn yours.

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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4513

Post by maydijo »

I found the source! Apparently all 160 acres of Bundy land are worth $69,000, according to the Clark Co. Assessor's Office:
His family's 160-acre ranch -- jointly owned by the David A. and Bodel Bundy Trust (named after Cliven's parents) and the Bundy Revocable Trust -- has a total taxable value of about $69,000, according to the Clark County Assessor's Office. It's unclear whether it could be subject to forfeiture, which would apply to "property derived from the proceeds of the crimes," according to DOJ.
His cattle - and I use the word "his" very loosely there - are estimated to be worth $700,000 - $800,000

Here's the article - https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060033470


Assuming that is the actual value of the land, the land is extremely marginal in terms of economic out-put and certainly not fit for agricultural activity. (Please note I am not arguing that land is only worth what you can extract from it. But if 160 acres is worth less than a standard house-block pretty much anywhere else in the developed world, it certainly has no economic value in and of itself - no mineral wealth, no agricultural worth, etc.)

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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4514

Post by Northland10 »

There is a 143 acres, not far from the Bundy's, listed at $550,000, though it has been listed on realtor.com for over a year. They do mention some mineral rights. It sounds like something the owner is willing to sell it the right offer comes up but is not real in any hurry.
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Dan1100
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4515

Post by Dan1100 »

maydijo wrote:I found the source! Apparently all 160 acres of Bundy land are worth $69,000, according to the Clark Co. Assessor's Office:

:snippity:
I wouldn't put too much stock on what the tax assessor says the value is. Those are always low for agricultural land and don't have too much relation to real life in a lot of cases.

In fact, here in cases where the value of land is at issue, there are many cases saying that the assessed value is irrelevant and cannot be mentioned in court.

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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4516

Post by maydijo »

Dan1100 wrote:
maydijo wrote:I found the source! Apparently all 160 acres of Bundy land are worth $69,000, according to the Clark Co. Assessor's Office:

:snippity:
I wouldn't put too much stock on what the tax assessor says the value is. Those are always low for agricultural land and don't have too much relation to real life in a lot of cases.

In fact, here in cases where the value of land is at issue, there are many cases saying that the assessed value is irrelevant and cannot be mentioned in court.
In which case, the state is cheating itself out of significant tax revenue. But then it's Nevada and they like to play by their own rules.

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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4517

Post by maydijo »

Northland10 wrote:There is a 143 acres, not far from the Bundy's, listed at $550,000, though it has been listed on realtor.com for over a year. They do mention some mineral rights. It sounds like something the owner is willing to sell it the right offer comes up but is not real in any hurry.
Well, I know this can't be right, because the Bundys keep reminding us they're the only ranchers left in the area! :fingerwag:

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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4518

Post by Sugar Magnolia »

maydijo wrote:
Dan1100 wrote:
maydijo wrote:I found the source! Apparently all 160 acres of Bundy land are worth $69,000, according to the Clark Co. Assessor's Office:

:snippity:
I wouldn't put too much stock on what the tax assessor says the value is. Those are always low for agricultural land and don't have too much relation to real life in a lot of cases.

In fact, here in cases where the value of land is at issue, there are many cases saying that the assessed value is irrelevant and cannot be mentioned in court.
In which case, the state is cheating itself out of significant tax revenue. But then it's Nevada and they like to play by their own rules.
Assessed value was never intended to put a real value on the property. It varies from a low of 10% (Mississippi) of the fair market value to 100% (Mass) of fair market value. The only thing the assessment has to do with the actual value of the property is that it's one of the numbers used in the formula to determine taxes on the property.

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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4519

Post by maydijo »

What sort of evidence do you need to provide to the court to prove your finances? I would imagine the court wouldn't just take your word for it. The assessed value of the land is (you've convinced me) well below market value. But if the figure of $312,000 includes his land and the cattle, that seems very low too, if the cattle alone were assessed at between $700,000 and $800,000 by the Nevada Dept of Agriculture.

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NMgirl
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4520

Post by NMgirl »

maydijo wrote:What sort of evidence do you need to provide to the court to prove your finances? I would imagine the court wouldn't just take your word for it. The assessed value of the land is (you've convinced me) well below market value. But if the figure of $312,000 includes his land and the cattle, that seems very low too, if the cattle alone were assessed at between $700,000 and $800,000 by the Nevada Dept of Agriculture.
Cliven pays for his own attorney, Bret Whipple. Navarro
agreed with Cliven that with his $312,000 in assets, he wouldn't qualify for indigent status. Whipple expects to charge Cliven (or somebody else) about $150k--not a high fee, by any means.

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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4521

Post by poplove »

Looking forward to NMgirl's Friday night dump to verify if gavslime's FB post is true.

Image
Image

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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4522

Post by Northland10 »

poplove wrote:Looking forward to NMgirl's Friday night dump to verify if gavslime's FB post is true.

Image
It is true.

http://thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 12#p895212
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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4523

Post by Notorial Dissent »

Well ain't that speshul.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4524

Post by pipistrelle »

Sugar Magnolia wrote:Assessed value was never intended to put a real value on the property. It varies from a low of 10% (Mississippi) of the fair market value to 100% (Mass) of fair market value. The only thing the assessment has to do with the actual value of the property is that it's one of the numbers used in the formula to determine taxes on the property.
You're failing to take into account that Cliven and Bundy men have been ranching on the land since the Magna Carta was signed. That surely means something.

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Re: Bundy Trials - Nevada

#4525

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

pipistrelle wrote:
Sugar Magnolia wrote:Assessed value was never intended to put a real value on the property. It varies from a low of 10% (Mississippi) of the fair market value to 100% (Mass) of fair market value. The only thing the assessment has to do with the actual value of the property is that it's one of the numbers used in the formula to determine taxes on the property.
You're failing to take into account that Cliven and Bundy men have been ranching on the land since the Magna Carta was signed. That surely means something.
:mrgreen:
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