SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

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crowfix
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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17751

Post by crowfix » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:43 am

Azastan wrote:
Dan1100 wrote:
Azastan wrote:The latest newsletter from Friends of Malheur:
The Narrows as a recommended RV/Camping spot is conspicuous by it's absence.
I can't imagine why they didn't get included.
Ignoring the bad feelings, it's quite possible they wouldn't have been included anyway since they are 35+ miles from the Frenchglen Hotel and the P Ranch. Besides, the narrows is basically a parking lot with a fence around it. The very nice BLM campground at Page Springs, the P Ranch, and the Frenchglen Hotel are much, much, nicer places to stay.



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17752

Post by Volkonski » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:55 pm

Harney county continues to suffer from the fallout of the Bundys' occupation. :(

Ore. Community Becomes Unwilling Symbol For Anti-Government Movement


Roughly the size of Maryland but with a population of about 7,000, Harney County found itself in the international media spotlight during a 41-day siege at the refuge 30 miles south of Burns. At the time, the militants pledged to stay until the quiet, high desert refuge was turned over to local control

:snippity:

Like a lot of people in Burns, she remembers a far different time here. There used to be several timber mills in the county. She once worked in one. There was more land available for cattle grazing. Burns had a thriving downtown, and Harney County had some of the highest average wages in all of Oregon.

Those days are gone.

"I'd been feeling like I've become an ostrich and I'd had my head in the sand because I didn't feel like I had any power," Smith says. Bundy's arrival energized her.
.

What Smith and those like her fail to realize is that, Federal Government or no Federal Government, logging was going to end in Harney County in the 1980's because most of the old growth trees were gone. It takes many decades for trees to grow to harvestable size in that area.

Likewise, despite 7,915 mining claims filed over the years (175 of which are active), no one has ever profitably mined much of anything in Harney County other than sand and gravel, at least for very long. ( A borax mine was operated for 10 years ending in 1902.) The fact that deposits exist does not mean they can be produced profitably.


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17753

Post by crowfix » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:53 pm

Volkonski wrote:What Smith and those like her fail to realize is that, Federal Government or no Federal Government, logging was going to end in Harney County in the 1980's because most of the old growth trees were gone. It takes many decades for trees to grow to harvestable size in that area...
"In 1980, the population of Hines was 1,692. That year the Hines Lumber Company began laying off workers after the loss of a bid for federal timber to a sawmill in Prineville. In February, the mill began closing its four divisions, and the stud mill and plywood and veneer plants closed before the end of the year. Regional Manager Gordon Wilson linked the shutdown to the plant’s obsolete equipment, which the company estimated would cost more than $15 million to renovate."

Foreign competition, high labor costs, mill automation, obsolete equipment, and high energy prices. The demise of logging was foreseeable and obvious. I worked in the timber industry back in those days and the tailspin started long before the owl and the environmentalists, but it is always so much easier to blame the government.

An insightful observation by the rancher: "What I've found interesting, a lot of people that are talking about federal lands and government overreach and [grazing] permits, don't even have a permit," he says."



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17754

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:41 pm

Volkonski wrote: What Smith and those like her fail to realize is that, Federal Government or no Federal Government, logging was going to end in Harney County in the 1980's because most of the old growth trees were gone. It takes many decades for trees to grow to harvestable size in that area.

Likewise, despite 7,915 mining claims filed over the years (175 of which are active), no one has ever profitably mined much of anything in Harney County other than sand and gravel, at least for very long. ( A borax mine was operated for 10 years ending in 1902.) The fact that deposits exist does not mean they can be produced profitably.
You are exactly right.

I would add that regrowing all the timber that's been cut won't restart the timber industry. That's because trees in the SE US grow something like 2x as fast as trees in the temperate Pacific NW. With the rise of "engineered lumber," which takes crappy second-growth timber, especially in smaller trees, and turns it into reinforced products that are actually better than prime timber, the demand for prime timber is not likely to rebound ever.

Engineered wood is better because it's more dimensionally stable, reducing sheetrock cracking and nail pops, and because walls are flatter, making it easier to fit custom cabinets and tile/stonework. If I were to build a new custom house today, I'd spec 2x8 laminated strand studs in the walls instead of 2x4 timber so I could put in tons of insulation and really save on energy costs, while not spending a lot more than I would for timber framing. 2x8 timber instead of 2x4 timber would more than double the cost of framing a house, by comparison.

The biggest consumer of lumber is new residential construction. Since 1980, housing starts have only exceeded 2 million units twice for brief intervals before crashing and burning in recessions. The second peak, which ended a cycle that began in the mid 1990s, occurred at the end of cheap mortgages in the 2008 credit crisis. Housing starts went from north of 2 million to about 500,000 units almost instantly. While they've been recovering slowly since, they're still well below a peak market.

Longer-term, household formation, typically the biggest driver of the single family home market, remains low and that appears to be a secular trend as young adults are living at home longer, as people defer marriage or opt not to have kids, or as wealthier people move to high-end multi-family units (i.e., high-rise apartments) in urban centers instead of building new McMansions to retire to.

So, as I've commented here before, this industry is never coming back, just like coal and just like ranching. People don't want the product any more, something the government can't control.

Finally, that's a great bit of research on the history (or lack thereof) of mining claims in Harney County. Which, of course, makes the bizarre belief that Hillary Clinton desperately wants the Hammond Ranch to sell the underlying uranium to the Russians such a laughably bad theory. As several people here have noted, there's a small uranium deposit in Malheur County approximately 75 miles from the Hammond Ranch, and it's not economical to mine even with Uranium prices at their peak. And with so many reactors at the end of their service life and slated to close, global uranium demand is plummeting, and the price of uranium is half what it was. Nobody wants that product, either, so even successful existing uranium mines all over the world are closing.



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17755

Post by Whatever4 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:32 pm

Thanks for the analysis. The varied expertise of our new Fogbowsers is awesome!


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17756

Post by Volkonski » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:02 pm

:thumbs:

Anti-Government Standoff Puts Oregon's Malheur Back On Tourist Map


A lot of the work is behind schedule, too. Karges and his staff were moved to a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services office in Portland during the occupation itself. Some of his biologists and other field staff traumatized by the siege have since quit or requested transfers.

All of this is occurring as the refuge itself is experiencing more visitors than it has in years.

"I think some of that is people wanting to show their support for the refuge and conservation efforts," Karges says. He also figures some people are just curious about what happened here.

Whatever the reason, the fact that there's a boom in tourism is ironic when you consider that the mostly out-of-state occupiers had said they were there to call attention to how the federal government is hurting the economy in the rural West.


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17757

Post by chancery » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:04 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Roughly the size of Maryland but with a population of about 7,000, Harney County found itself in the international media spotlight during a 41-day siege at the refuge 30 miles south of Burns.
I've spent a good deal of time in Maryland, so that analogy is helpful to me for visualizing the size of Harney County.

It's much bigger than I had realized.



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17758

Post by realist » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:56 pm

After Malheur, How Could Rural Oregon Prepare for Another Armed Militia?
The Rural Organizing Project offers strategies for communities under siege by groups like the Bundy family.

It might seem as though the current Malheur occupation trial is winding down—the court expects a verdict in the case against seven defendants by Halloween—but that’s no excuse to turn a blind eye to the right-wing nationalist groups that continue to endanger rural Oregon.

The Rural Organizing Project, a statewide grassroots organization that works to defend human rights and advance democracy, certainly thinks we have something to worry about. The group has put together a 187-page booklet on the patriot movement in order to equip the local communities most at-risk. The booklet covers the movement’s historical background and core principles, as well as strategies to avoid a repeat performance of the early 2016 standoff.

It’s akin to an emergency preparedness kit in case of earthquake or flood, except this disaster is anything but natural.

“I think there’s a popular stereotype that folks in rural areas are all uneducated, far-right conservatives, but in reality, there are many people in these communities who feel isolated, who are being shut down and silenced by this movement,” says Jessica Campbell, co-director of the Rural Organizing Project and one of the authors of the toolkit. “During the Malheur occupation, people were being threatened, people were getting followed around by SUVs with out-of-state plates. It created a real climate of tension and fear.
Portland Monthly

Rural Organizing Project


Up in Arms: A Guide to Oregon’s Patriot Movement


Up in Arms:
A Guide to Oregon’s Patriot Movement is a groundbreaking report and toolkit designed to support local communities, reporters, public officials, and community activists under siege from or curious about armed militias and other Patriot movement groups. This guide was developed by Rural Organizing Project in partnership with Political Research Associates through extensive research on the right-wing movements and by pooling the local expertise of rural community leaders and scholars. It exposes, explains, and offers alternatives to this movement.

New Patriot movement groups formed since 2008 include local affiliates of the Oath Keepers and Three Percenters, as well as the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association. Researchers estimate that dozens of groups have thousands of supporters in the state. Up In Arms also documents how the Patriot movement takes advantage of the collapse of the rural Oregon economy and funding cuts to vital community infrastructure.

Providing alternatives for communities being targeted for Patriot movement recruitment is extremely important. Rural Organizing Project offers strategies for how community members can break out of a sense of isolation, form a group, and speak out with their own vision of what the community should look like. The toolkit’s case studies of effective community resistance from five Oregon counties show how residents can successfully counter Patriot movement messaging and intimidation, and help build inclusive and democratic communities.


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17759

Post by realist » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:00 am

Another good article by Peter Walker:

Why the court ‘victory’ for Malheur militants was anything but
Ammon Bundy lost. This might sound strange in light of many recent headlines pronouncing the stunning acquittals of Bundy and his six codefendants in a federal court, as well as Bundy’s own triumphal statements following the verdicts.

Nevertheless, by the measure of Bundy’s own stated goals, his occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Harney County, Oregon, was an abject failure.

Bundy was defeated not by the Federal Bureau of Investigation or by federal prosecutors. Instead, he was defeated by the majority of ordinary citizens in Harney County who stood steadfastly against Bundy’s plan.

[...]

The community’s overwhelming rejection of Ammon Bundy’s radical methods in Harney County was the death knell for his revolution – at least for now. Consider if the community had flocked to Bundy’s side as he implored them to do. Federal authorities would have had a law enforcement problem of an unprecedented scale and any violent outcome could well have sparked widespread rebellion across rural America. As U.S. Interior Secretary Sally Jewell later observed, through collaboration disaster was averted.

Bundy lost. For that we have the community and ranchers of Harney County to thank.
https://theconversation.com/why-the-cou ... -but-67896


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17760

Post by Kendra » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:11 am

realist wrote:Rancher Rebellion at the Malheur Refuge Is Nothing New. Just Ask Nancy Ferguson.

In 1980, bird-watching visitors to Malheur National Wildlife Refuge complained that the cows were destroying critical wildlife habitat. So Nancy and Denzel Ferguson, the husband-and-wife naturalist team who lived just down the road from the sanctuary headquarters, started a letter-writing campaign to draw attention to grazing abuses.

They got some cattle off the refuge, but ranchers were furious. The Fergusons received telephone death threats on many nights. A group of ranchers threw them out of a local dance in the early '80s.

That night, a caller told Nancy that "a bunch of us guys are coming over to get you." She politely asked who was calling. "Dwight Hamm—" she recalls the caller stammered, before being drowned out by other voices in the background.

Dwight Hammond Jr., the same rancher whose prison sentence for arson sparked the militants' recent takeover of the refuge's headquarters, had been one of the people whom Nancy says pushed the Fergusons out of the dance. (Hammond and his son Steven Hammond are in federal prison. Larry Matasar, the Hammonds' attorney, declined to comment.)
http://www.wweek.com/news/2016/01/13/ra ... -ferguson/
That would be those wonderful Hammonds that Ammon & Co. spoke so highly of?

FYI, the Fergusons wrote a book, Sacred Cows at the Public Trough. IMHO they make a very good case why cattle are not good for our western lands.



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17761

Post by RVInit » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:09 pm

Kendra wrote:
realist wrote:Rancher Rebellion at the Malheur Refuge Is Nothing New. Just Ask Nancy Ferguson.
:snippity:
That night, a caller told Nancy that "a bunch of us guys are coming over to get you." She politely asked who was calling. "Dwight Hamm—" she recalls the caller stammered, before being drowned out by other voices in the background.

Dwight Hammond Jr., the same rancher whose prison sentence for arson sparked the militants' recent takeover of the refuge's headquarters, had been one of the people whom Nancy says pushed the Fergusons out of the dance. (Hammond and his son Steven Hammond are in federal prison. Larry Matasar, the Hammonds' attorney, declined to comment.)
http://www.wweek.com/news/2016/01/13/ra ... -ferguson/
That would be those wonderful Hammonds that Ammon & Co. spoke so highly of?

FYI, the Fergusons wrote a book, Sacred Cows at the Public Trough. IMHO they make a very good case why cattle are not good for our western lands.
Yes, Dwight Hammond has been menacing anyone he has a disagreement with for many years. He and his son both have been involved in a number of confrontations that resulted in legal actions and for years they received the same result in every one of them - very gentle slaps on the wrist.


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17762

Post by KXG » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:45 pm

Death threats from some in the ranching community are nothing new to those that have traveled or worked in eastern Oregon or the intermountain west. With regards to the Hammonds, read about the Choate party, a private hunting group, being forced to flee when the Hammonds started a burn upwind of them. It's not unusual for private parties to be run off public land that ranchers think they own. There were a number of these incidents in Wyoming, google for articles on the subject. Wheeler County OR also had a few in the late '60s and early '70s.




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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17764

Post by tek » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:51 pm

FYI, I'm renewing my Friends of the Malheur NWR membership..

That seems like such a long time ago..


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17765

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:55 pm

tek wrote:FYI, I'm renewing my Friends of the Malheur NWR membership..

That seems like such a long time ago..
I got my notice too. It seems like ages ago.


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17766

Post by Burn'em Down » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:19 pm

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
tek wrote:FYI, I'm renewing my Friends of the Malheur NWR membership..

That seems like such a long time ago..
I got my notice too. It seems like ages ago.
Please bear w the Friends group, their executive director had to retire due to a massive stroke. They are in the process of reorganizing and restaffing. Friends of mine tell me they hope to be more active this summer.

Thank you for your continued support of this important group in our county.



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17767

Post by June bug » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Burn'em Down wrote:
Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
tek wrote:FYI, I'm renewing my Friends of the Malheur NWR membership..

That seems like such a long time ago..
I got my notice too. It seems like ages ago.
Please bear w the Friends group, their executive director had to retire due to a massive stroke. They are in the process of reorganizing and restaffing. Friends of mine tell me they hope to be more active this summer.

Thank you for your continued support of this important group in our county.
I renewed this morning online. So sorry about the E.D.'s stroke - this is a truly worthy group.



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17768

Post by Mary Quite Contrary » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:42 pm

I just renewed mine too.

So sorry to hear about the director. With everything thing they have had to deal with I'm sure that had to be hard for all. I hope more people re-up their membership.


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17769

Post by Azastan » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:49 pm

I will be renewing my membership.



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17770

Post by Dolly » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:44 am

Malheur refuge reopens headquarters, with new 'security measures' in place

Once occupied and long closed to the public, the headquarters at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge is finally back open - but with some new security measures in place.

The refuge headquarters re-opened last week, according to Brent Lawrence, public affairs officer for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, though the visitor's center (also known as the nature center) will remain closed until later this spring.

"It's a public facility, it's public lands and we welcome members of the public" to come visit, Lawrence said. "All things associated with it."

That includes the sprawling desert wetlands - home of more than 320 species of migratory birds - as well as the armed occupation of its headquarters in Jan. 2016, an act that lasted 40 days and led to the arrest of 27 people. Since then, the headquarters has remained closed to the public, as the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service cleaned up damage left by the occupiers.

Officials have also been busy installing new "Department of Interior-recommended security measures," Lawrence said, which includes security cameras, additional fencing and some gates. It may also include the continued presence of refuge law enforcement officers, which have been stationed at the shuttered station since the end of the occupation.
....................
Now the public is encouraged to return, and the timing couldn't have worked out better. The annual Harney County Migratory Bird Festival runs from April 6 to 9 at the refuge and in nearby Burns, and is sure to draw flocks of bird enthusiasts back to Malheur.
.........
http://www.oregonlive.com/travel/index. ... eadqu.html


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17771

Post by Grumpy Old Guy » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:01 am

Good news!



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17772

Post by Burn'em Down » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:18 am

Grumpy Old Guy wrote:Good news!

Just in time for the birdfest. If you've ever considered visiting this is a good time.
http://www.migratorybirdfestival.com/



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17773

Post by ZekeB » Thu May 18, 2017 4:01 pm



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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17774

Post by Volkonski » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:08 pm

Other FBI agents present at scene of LaVoy Finicum shooting testified before federal grand jury

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-stando ... at_sc.html
Other members of the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team who were involved in the stop of refuge occupation spokesman Robert "LaVoy'' Finicum's truck on Jan. 26, 2016 testified before a federal grand jury that returned an indictment against their colleague, Agent W. Joseph Astarita, according to prosecutors. 

The government has asked the court for permission to share transcripts of the agents' grand jury testimony with a nationally-recognized ballistics and trajectory expert who they may call as a witness at trial.

The government's case against Astarita, accused of firing two shots at Finicum or his truck and then lying about it, rests on videos taken by an FBI airplane flying overhead, the cell phone video from passenger Shawna Cox riding in Finicum's truck and on ballistics and trajectory evidence developed by the state police crime lab and the Deschutes County Sheriff's  Office, the prosecutors said in a recent court filing.

"The central issue in this case is whether defendant fired two rounds at Finicum or Finicum's truck then lied about doing so to both the FBI and to Oregon State Police detectives who were investigating Finicum's death,'' Assistant U.S. Attorney Gary Sussman wrote in a motion seeking the grand jury transcript disclosure.


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Re: SovCits forcibly occupy Malheur Wildlife Refuge

#17775

Post by Volkonski » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:10 pm

PBS to air documentary filmed during armed occupation of Oregon's Malheur wildlife refuge

http://www.oregonlive.com/expo/erry-201 ... ilmed.html
"No Man's Land," a documentary that airs on PBS' "Independent Lens" series on May 7, explores a more recent, but equally controversial chapter of Oregon history, the Ammon Bundy-led armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 2016.
Must rememeber to program the DVR. :-D


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