Finicum Lawsuit

noblepa
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#376

Post by noblepa » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:53 pm

Kendra wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:20 am


The Finicum Cowboy Experince
4 days and 3 nights
We decided that as a family we want to invite some people to enjoy the experience of working with my dad's cattle and enjoy the cowboy experince. It will be 4 days and 3 nights of rounding up cattle on horseback, enjoying stories of LaVoy and the different memories we shared, some Good ole Cowboy stories written by Louis Lamour around the campfire, Cowboy cooking, branding the calves, camping, and finally a day to get cleaned up and dressed and take some cattle to auction personally with Jeanette Finicum where you will be treated to a nice dinner and be able to spend time and ask her questions!
The rest of it:
► Show Spoiler
What state are they in?

Wouldn't the fact that they are not a charitable organization and that they are charging $25 for a CHANCE to win a spot in their "Cowboy Experience" (please note correct spelling), run afoul of gambling laws?



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Curmudgeon
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#377

Post by Curmudgeon » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:58 pm

What state are they in?
Rancho Bob is in Cane Beds, Ariz.


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scirreeve
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#378

Post by scirreeve » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:12 pm

NMgirl wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:45 pm
I haven't the time to do any in-depth research on the number of cow-calf units an acre of land in Kanab, Utah will support, but I offer a guideline on the amount of forage required to raise cattle in general, and New Mexico in particular, more arid than Kanab, admittedly, but Kanab is still a very, very dry place to raise cattle.
A typical 900- to 1,000-lb steer requires roughly 20 lbs of forage each day—7,300 lbs of forage annually. An acre of arid rangeland in fair to good range condition, with 10–12 inches of precipitation, might be expected to produce approximately 600 lbs of standing forage during the year, of which, rangeland experts suggest, only 25%–50% should be consumed or utilized by livestock in order to leave sufficient vegetation for regeneration and wildlife use. Following the conservative utilization rate of 25% suggested for many arid areas with high precipitation variability (Holechek, 1988; Holechek & Pieper, 1992; Galt et al., 2000) this leaves about 150 lbs of forage per acre per year for grazing. The result is that each steer requires nearly 50 rangeland acres or its equivalent, or roughly a stocking rate of 13 animals per 640-acre section of land.
http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/research/live ... nge/RR759/

Kanab receives just a bit over 15 inches of rain per year.

https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/k ... s/usut0127

My conclusion is that Jeanette has leased BLM land. You couldn't possibly justify a "round-up" on five acres in Kanab.

Round-ups are dangerous. I've been to several, the last round-up resulting in injuries to seven out of ten of the "cowboys" on a horse (rather than in a jeep or similar vehicle, which is quite common). Every person on a horse was a seasoned rancher.

Edited to add: The Finicum ranch is actually in Cane Beds, AZ. I had the location wrong, but my argument stands for Cane Beds, which gets an average of only twelve inches of precipitation per year, less than Kanab. Apologies for the misinformation! :bag:
She has grazing rights on a couple of allotments (winter and summer). This article was written before she sorted out the dispute with the BLM. It does have details about the number of cows etc. https://www.tsln.com/news/finicum/



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Whip
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#379

Post by Whip » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:15 pm

is 'cattle' a euphemism for government subsidized children?



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poplove
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#380

Post by poplove » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:19 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:58 pm
What state are they in?
Rancho Bob is in Cane Beds, Ariz.
I wonder how close this place is to the finiranch: https://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/53289


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TollandRCR
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#381

Post by TollandRCR » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:34 pm

I did this in the Hill Country of Texas on my father-in-law's ranch a couple of decades ago. We had the assistance of trained, very smart dogs. It was not that hard on the humans so long as we avoided the rattlesnakes. It must be much harder in the Utah/Nevada desert. There was grass in the Hill Country.


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Re: Finicum Lawsu

#382

Post by Grumpy Old Guy » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:36 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:35 pm
poplove wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:33 pm
It's certainly harassment of people outside of LE, like Harry Reid and the Center of Biological Diversity.
I wonder if the widder has contemplated the effects of a counter-suit -- or attorney's fees?
... or has she literally bet the farm?
When she loses, will she not be liable for the winners’ costs? (I am not a lawyer and I am not in the US.)



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Kendra
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#383

Post by Kendra » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:59 pm

The more I think about this, the more :confused: I get. $25 a head? Would that even cover the food? And if someone's hurt, did she check with her insurance company to make sure she's covered? Or will her guests be asked to sign liability waivers?
Edit: Clean up typo kitty left after walking on keyboard
:bag:



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Kendra
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#384

Post by Kendra » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:50 pm

Might have known it was Cry Me A River Challice was behind this new plan to grift $$$. Worth watching the first of the video to see how she stumbles over depositions. LOL.
► Show Spoiler
Video is huge, spoiler tagged.



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JohnPCapitalist
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#385

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:02 pm

Kendra wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:59 pm
The more I think about this, the more :confused: I get. $25 a head? Would that even cover the food? And if someone's hurt, did she check with her insurance company to make sure she's covered? Or will her guests be asked to sign liability waivers?
Edit: Clean up typo kitty left after walking on keyboard
:bag:
Remember, the $25 is a single raffle ticket where the winner will be chosen. If they claim it's a $2,500 value to have this luxury dude ranch vacation, they're expecting to sell 200 tickets. Wonder how many they'll actually get...



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Kendra
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#386

Post by Kendra » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:08 pm

I finished listening to her video after posting comments above. She said they're also offering the option to pay to get in = $2500. Also says she hopes that someone comes in that's never ridden a horse before - WTF? And Jet Set Jeanette is taking whoever it is that wins out to dinner after the auction. How the hell is she going to make any $$ to pay for lawyers after feeding everyone?

Oh, and a couple of interesting comments about why they aren't on Go Fund Me, something about they wouldn't work with them. Hmmmm.



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Azastan
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#387

Post by Azastan » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:10 pm

Kendra wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:08 pm
I finished listening to her video after posting comments above. She said they're also offering the option to pay to get in = $2500. Also says she hopes that someone comes in that's never ridden a horse before - WTF? And Jet Set Jeanette is taking whoever it is that wins out to dinner after the auction. How the hell is she going to make any $$ to pay for lawyers after feeding everyone?

Oh, and a couple of interesting comments about why they aren't on Go Fund Me, something about they wouldn't work with them. Hmmmm.
Oh my. I don't know what kind of horses the Widder would be using (but probably Quarter Horses), but my little Arabian friend Azastan can spin so fast I would get slung off in less than a second if I didn't know how to ride. I actually practice spins on her because it's a good way to learn how to ride a horse that's spooking.

" U.C.A. 1953 § 78B-4-201 - 203

This Utah section states that it is presumed that participants in equine or livestock activities are aware of and understand that there are inherent risks associated with these activities. Thus, an equine activity sponsor, equine professional, livestock activity sponsor, or livestock professional is not liable for an injury to or the death of a participant due to the inherent risks associated with these activities. The section also requires an equine professional to give notice to participants of the limitation of liability, either by the posting of a sign or by the execution of a written release. "



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Kendra
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#388

Post by Kendra » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:24 pm

Poots are all cowboys because they are poots, so all them should be OK :sarcasm:

This will not end well.



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vic
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#389

Post by vic » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:09 pm

Kendra wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:24 pm
Poots are all cowboys because they are poots, so all them should be OK :sarcasm:

This will not end well.
Maybe not for the POOTs, but there should be videos galore for FailArmy



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Kendra
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#390

Post by Kendra » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:15 pm

Whoever does win this 'prize', I hope they livestream for us. ;)



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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#391

Post by NMgirl » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:16 pm

The real question is why The Widder runs any cattle at all? Just to maintain the rancher image?
In 2002, Finicum filed for bankruptcy while living in New Mexico and doing business as "Southwest Horse and Trails".[10][11] By 2008, Finicum operated a foster home for troubled boys near Chino Valley, Arizona.[12] According to a 2010 tax filing, Catholic Charities Community Services in Arizona paid the family US$115,343 to foster children in 2009. In January 2016, the state removed all of Finicum's foster children due to his involvement with the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge (discussed below). Finicum said this took away his family's main source of income.[3]

During that time, Finicum also operated a ranch that did not produce income. After the state removed his foster children, Finicum told the media, "My ranch, well, the cows just cover the costs of the ranch."[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVoy_Finicum

It is difficult to make any kind of profit at all on dry western cattle ranches. If a rancher does make a profit, it's often because he/she overgrazes the land. That being said, I have no idea what kind of land Jeanette has available to her. Still, if LaVoy couldn't make it as a rancher, how does Jeanette make it as a rancher?


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Curmudgeon
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#392

Post by Curmudgeon » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:20 pm

It is difficult to make any kind of profit at all on dry western cattle ranches. If a rancher does make a profit, it's often because he/she overgrazes the land. That being said, I have no idea what kind of land Jeanette has available to her. Still, if LaVoy couldn't make it as a rancher, how does Jeanette make it as a rancher?
Grifting along with the tumbling tumbleweeds.


Delusion: A poot who thinks that he/she is one of "we the people." ;)

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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#393

Post by Curmudgeon » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:31 pm

'where's Shawna ("Gun It. Gun it.") Cox in all of this surely she knows how to work cattle, including castrating bull calves. :daydream:


Delusion: A poot who thinks that he/she is one of "we the people." ;)

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Whip
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#394

Post by Whip » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:46 pm

Azastan wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:10 pm
Kendra wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:08 pm
I finished listening to her video after posting comments above. She said they're also offering the option to pay to get in = $2500. Also says she hopes that someone comes in that's never ridden a horse before - WTF? And Jet Set Jeanette is taking whoever it is that wins out to dinner after the auction. How the hell is she going to make any $$ to pay for lawyers after feeding everyone?

Oh, and a couple of interesting comments about why they aren't on Go Fund Me, something about they wouldn't work with them. Hmmmm.
Oh my. I don't know what kind of horses the Widder would be using (but probably Quarter Horses), but my little Arabian friend Azastan can spin so fast I would get slung off in less than a second if I didn't know how to ride. I actually practice spins on her because it's a good way to learn how to ride a horse that's spooking.

" U.C.A. 1953 § 78B-4-201 - 203

This Utah section states that it is presumed that participants in equine or livestock activities are aware of and understand that there are inherent risks associated with these activities. Thus, an equine activity sponsor, equine professional, livestock activity sponsor, or livestock professional is not liable for an injury to or the death of a participant due to the inherent risks associated with these activities. The section also requires an equine professional to give notice to participants of the limitation of liability, either by the posting of a sign or by the execution of a written release. "
Image



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woodworker
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#395

Post by woodworker » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:57 pm

noblepa wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:53 pm
Kendra wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:20 am


The Finicum Cowboy Experince
4 days and 3 nights
We decided that as a family we want to invite some people to enjoy the experience of working with my dad's cattle and enjoy the cowboy experince. It will be 4 days and 3 nights of rounding up cattle on horseback, enjoying stories of LaVoy and the different memories we shared, some Good ole Cowboy stories written by Louis Lamour around the campfire, Cowboy cooking, branding the calves, camping, and finally a day to get cleaned up and dressed and take some cattle to auction personally with Jeanette Finicum where you will be treated to a nice dinner and be able to spend time and ask her questions!
The rest of it:
► Show Spoiler
What state are they in?

Wouldn't the fact that they are not a charitable organization and that they are charging $25 for a CHANCE to win a spot in their "Cowboy Experience" (please note correct spelling), run afoul of gambling laws?
Please tell me that they are going to have a dramatic reading of toilet's book -- I want a video of that, especially the part where he, IIRC, spalms the pistol and shoots down the stinking feds. And why haven't the conservative media put that on the big screen yet.

As for the cowboying, are the suckers supposed to bring their own personal accessories, such as gloves, hats, kerchiefs, canteens, first aid, ropes, chewing tobacco, etc. I see a rush to buy cowboy boots and, knowing this crowd, they will go out and buy the fanciest boots they can find, not taking into account what type of boot actually works, not have properly fitted -- they will all go for the 2 inch heel and the silver tips. I want video.


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scirreeve
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#396

Post by scirreeve » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:19 pm

This nut from MA helped her last year. I don't think she charged him $2500 for the privilege BUT he did it on his honeymoon (along with poot reporting from the LV trial). Same guy that hosted Cloven at some poot gathering in MA a few months ago.
Capture.JPG
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scirreeve
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#397

Post by scirreeve » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:22 pm

Here is a pic of Poot Dave branding a cow at Dorthea's place.
Capture.JPG
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Curmudgeon
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#398

Post by Curmudgeon » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:24 pm

scirreeve wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:19 pm
This nut from MA helped her last year. I don't think she charged him $2500 for the privilege BUT he did it on his honeymoon (along with poot reporting from the LV trial). Same guy that hosted Cloven at some poot gathering in MA a few months ago.Capture.JPG
Branding is not nearly as much fun as pregnancy testing, nor is it as much of a "reach."


Delusion: A poot who thinks that he/she is one of "we the people." ;)

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pipistrelle
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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#399

Post by pipistrelle » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:32 pm

I will pay Mrs. Finicum $25 for video of Jason, Ammon, Sean, et al., cowboying on horseback. Jason and Sean are pretty hefty. May need a Percheron in lieu of the traditional Quarter horse.

I'm sure some people are born with a knack for working with horses, but doesn't it take a little effort to learn how to sit and post properly, how to manage the horse, etc.? That's before you get into things like tight turns.

Sadly, it reeks of desperation. Not having foster child income is probably pinching quite a bit. If I valued my cattle, I'd hire pros to handle 'em. But what do I know.

As for Cane Beds and rainfall, there is a reason Wisconsin is known for cheese.



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Re: Finicum Lawsuit

#400

Post by LtDansLegs » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:44 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:24 pm
scirreeve wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:19 pm
This nut from MA helped her last year. I don't think she charged him $2500 for the privilege BUT he did it on his honeymoon (along with poot reporting from the LV trial). Same guy that hosted Cloven at some poot gathering in MA a few months ago.Capture.JPG
Branding is not nearly as much fun as pregnancy testing, nor is it as much of a "reach."
They're surprisingly reluctant to pee on that little stick.



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