CIA assessment: Russia helped Trump win & Senate knew it

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MsDaisy
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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#76

Post by MsDaisy »

Sugar Magnolia wrote:How long before Trump's refusal to listen to the intelligence professionals results in one or more deaths to American citizens? And how long after that before the Republicans wake the fuck up to it?
Republican powers that be know exactly how big a Threat Trump is to this country and to our reputation around the world. But they're in power now, or at least they think they are so they don't give a shit. "IF" news had broken that the CIA had hard core evidence that Russia hacked the U.S. Election to get Hillary elected and she'd actually won every republican in the House and Senate would have gone up like a mushroom cloud. They'd be apoplectic!

From the news week article:
REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS BREAK WITH TRUMP ON RUSSIA

:snippity:
When it comes to Russia the veteran Kentucky senator laid out a much darker view of bilateral relations than Trump, who has advocated a renewed dialogue. “Let me just speak for myself, the Russians are not our friends,” he replied when asked about Trump’s overtures to Moscow. a, “They invaded Crimea. Senator McCain and I and some of our Democratic friends met with a delegation from the Baltic countries just this past week. To say that they’re nervous about the Russians would be to put it mildly.” Ryan, too, criticized Russia as “an aggressor that consistently undermines American interests.” McConnell also reiterated his support for the NATO alliance; Trump questioned the utility of the pact repeatedly on the campaign trail.

Both McConnell and Ryan cautioned, however, that recent leaks from the intelligence community vis-à-vis Russian hacking may be partisan in their purpose. “Exploiting the work of our intelligence community for partisan purposes does a grave disservice to those professionals and potentially jeopardizes our national security,” Ryan said in a statement issued Monday afternoon. “As we work to protect our democracy from foreign influence, we should not cast doubt on the clear and decisive outcome of this election.”

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-gop-russia-531207
In other words, "yes, this is pretty fucked up but hay, lets not question the results!" Hell would freeze over before they'd accept Clinton after a revelation like what the CIA has exposed.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#77

Post by Slim Cognito »

A great piece by Michael Hayden in WaPo

The second paragraph (of this snip) kicked me in the gut
First is the question of how the incoming administration values intelligence. On Sunday, the president-elect again rejected the Russian role, adding that he was smart enough that he didn’t want or need a daily briefing.

This creates more than hurt feelings. The intelligence community makes great sacrifices, and CIA directors send people into harm’s way to learn things otherwise unavailable. And directors have seen stars carved on the agency’s memorial wall because of it. If what is gained is not used or wanted or is labeled as suspect or corrupt — by what moral authority does a director put his people at risk?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... def0ea4dcf


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#78

Post by GreatGrey »

Sugar Magnolia wrote:How long before Trump's refusal to listen to the intelligence professionals results in one or more deaths to American citizens? And how long after that before the Republicans wake the fuck up to it?
Already happened.
Never


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#79

Post by Addie »

The Atlantic
Why Trump’s Republican Party Is Embracing Russia

Through his public statements and presidential appointments, Donald Trump is remaking Republican foreign policy in two fundamental ways. The first concerns Russia. Previous GOP leaders like Mitt Romney and John McCain described Moscow as an adversary. Trump describes it as a partner. The second concerns Islam. Previous GOP leaders—most notably George W. Bush—insisted that the U.S. had no beef with Islam, or with the vast majority of Muslims worldwide. Trump and his top advisors disagree. They often describe Islam itself as a hostile force, and view ordinary Muslims as guilty of jihadist sympathies until proven innocent.

On the surface, these two shifts seem unrelated. But they’re deeply intertwined. Before Trump, Republican leaders generally described the United States as fighting an ideological struggle against the enemies of freedom. Now, Trump and his advisors describe America as fighting a civilizational struggle against the enemies of the West. Seen through that very different lens, Muslims look more nefarious and Vladimir Putin looks more benign.

To understand this shift, it’s worth distinguishing two different strains of conservative foreign-policy thinking during the cold war. Civilizational conservatives like Jerry Falwell and Pat Buchanan saw the cold war as a struggle between two countries defined primarily by their view of God: The Judeo-Christian United States versus the atheistic Soviet Union. Ideological conservatives like Paul Wolfowitz and Elliot Abrams, by contrast, saw the cold war as a conflict between two countries defined primarily by their view of government: the liberty-loving United States versus the totalitarian USSR. (A third group, composed of realists like Henry Kissinger and George Kennan, saw the cold war as a traditional great power conflict between two countries defined primarily by their geopolitical heft.)

In the 1990s, after the Soviet Union collapsed, ideological conservatives and civilizational conservatives parted ways. The clearest example was the former Yugoslavia. In the 1990s, Serbs brutalized the largely Muslim breakaway republic of Bosnia. Ideological conservatives like Robert Kagan urged NATO to intervene in the name of human rights. Cultural conservatives like Buchanan wondered why the U.S. was going to war to defend Muslims against Christians. Ideological conservatives saw Russia, Serbia’s traditional ally, as defending tyranny and ethnic cleansing. Cultural conservatives saw Russia as defending Christendom. ...

Partly, they’re aping Trump. But there’s something deeper at work. Ideological conservatives loathe Putin because he represents an authoritarian challenge to the American-backed order in Europe and the Middle East. But many civilizational conservatives, who once opposed the Soviet Union because of its atheism, now view Putin’s Russia as Christianity’s front line against the new civilizational enemy: Islam. Among the alt-right, Putin is a very popular man. He’s popular because he resists the liberal, cosmopolitan values that Muslims supposedly exploit to undermine the West. Richard Spencer, who was until recently married to a pro-Putin Russian writer, has called Russia the “sole white power in the world.” Matthew Heimbach, another prominent figure in the alt-right, recently told Business Insider that “Russia is the leader of the free world.” In 2013, Pat Buchanan penned a column entitled, “Is Vladimir Putin a paleoconservative? In the culture war for mankind’s future, is he one of us?”


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#80

Post by kate520 »

They should move there, then, and leave the rest of us out of it.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#81

Post by PatGund »

TollandRCR wrote:I sort of understand your frustration, Pat, but we are far from reaching "The United States of America is now a Russian colony." The U.S. is too big an entity for one stupid, uneducated man to make that happen. It even looks like some Republicans are waking up.
I'll believe it when I see it. What I see right now is a batch of Republicans in CYA mode or trying to figure out how to blame Obama and the Democrats, with McConnell leading the blamecasting


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#82

Post by Flatpointhigh »

Foggy wrote:How long before Trump gets caught passing secret information compromising our national security to the Russians? :think:
what makes you think he isn't doing that already?


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#83

Post by RoadScholar »

The key word being "caught."


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#84

Post by Addie »

WaPo
Putin, Trump and the West’s new ideological alliance

In a year of surreal political developments, a curious flipping of the script is playing out in Washington: Democrats furious about reports of alleged Russian interference in the American electoral process are the main ones banging the drum about Kremlin perfidy; conservatives, once at the vanguard of the Cold War, are now more circumspect in their criticism of Moscow and, in some instances, rushing to its defense.

Even if the CIA's allegations of deliberate Russian meddling in the American election in Trump's favor prove to be flimsy, a profound new reality is reshaping Western politics.

Soon, governments in Washington and Moscow will be both led by figures who embrace a similar brand of right-wing nationalism, one that harps on the primacy of national sovereignty, invokes myths of a greater past, trumpets Christian values and rejects multiculturalism and cosmopolitanism. Their ideological brethren have also found firm footing in parts of Europe and threaten to rewind decades of liberal integration on the continent.

Russia under its autocratic president, Vladimir Putin, is not pulling all the strings in this vast, rightward turn. But his government has actively pushed for such a realignment. A November report published by the Atlantic Council outlined how, through a network of media affiliates and political alliances in various European countries, Russia “seeks to infiltrate politics, influence policy, and inculcate an alternative, pro-Russian view of the international order.”


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#85

Post by Addie »

This is a long piece in yesterday's New York Times. It would be a crime to snip, so I won't.
The Perfect Weapon: How Russian Cyberpower Invaded the U.S.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#86

Post by rifleman1635 »

All of this nonsense only goes to show that the Hillarybots are just as "fact-free" in their conspiracy theorizing as when they created the "vast right-wing conspiracy" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vast_righ ... conspiracy ...
Have ANY of you bothered to review the news as to the actual nature of the so-called "hacking"? It doesn't look like it. The whole "scandal" comes down to a Podesta staffer falling for a phishing email sent to Podesta's GMAIL account. There was NO hacking. The Phishers got access to Podesta's email because his staff GAVE it to them.
There was NO intrusion into government computers (the DNC is NOT a government entity nor is it supposed to be using government assets such as phones or computers).
http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity ... email-hack

Exposing those embarrassing emails is the full extent of the so-called "Russian Interference" in the US elections. Not really all that different from our own interference in Russian politics back in the 80s.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#87

Post by Suranis »

rifleman1635 wrote:Hacking isn't hacking, and if you think hacking techniques are actually hacking techniques you are stoopid, becasue I watched Wargames once. Hiel Trump
Er, ok.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#88

Post by kate520 »

I'm going to break the rules here. Maybe foggy will ban me. :mrgreen:

Rifleman, you are an ass. You are here for one reason only now, to pick fights and rub our noses in the mess you helped create. There was, and still is, a vast right wing conspiracy, beginning in the 70's. Can't you smell it? it smells like shit to me.

Y'all are still fighting hippies, who were vanquished by the the forces of capitalism, not by rednecks with pithy slogans.

Ignore. There's a button for that.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#89

Post by Foggy »

rifleman1635 wrote:Have ANY of you bothered to review the news as to the actual nature of the so-called "hacking"?
I suppose you didn't notice the link in the post immediately before yours to the New York Times piece, and a very clear statement by Addie that she'd read every word of it.

Meanwhile, it's you who doesn't seem to understand that what the CIA is talking about is a lot more than just Podesta's emails. Have YOU bothered to review the news as to the actual nature of the hacking?

WHY are you taking the side of Russia against the United States? What make you think you know more about this than the CIA?

Go away and stop trolling us, please. We don't appreciate fake news on this site, thank you very much. :smoking:


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#90

Post by Fortinbras »

The Alt-Reich press is going for straightforward denial:

http://www.naturalnews.com/2016-12-10-w ... hacks.html


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#91

Post by Foggy »

... except the information came from the Central Intelligence Agency. The Washington Post only reported it.

The CIA says it has a lot of really solid evidence. Of course, rifleman1635 knows a lot more than the CIA about the situation.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#92

Post by YellowMustard »

rifleman1635 wrote:All of this nonsense only goes to show that the Hillarybots are just as "fact-free" in their conspiracy theorizing as when they created the "vast right-wing conspiracy" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vast_righ ... conspiracy ...
Have ANY of you bothered to review the news as to the actual nature of the so-called "hacking"? It doesn't look like it. The whole "scandal" comes down to a Podesta staffer falling for a phishing email sent to Podesta's GMAIL account. There was NO hacking. The Phishers got access to Podesta's email because his staff GAVE it to them.
There was NO intrusion into government computers (the DNC is NOT a government entity nor is it supposed to be using government assets such as phones or computers).
http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity ... email-hack

Exposing those embarrassing emails is the full extent of the so-called "Russian Interference" in the US elections. Not really all that different from our own interference in Russian politics back in the 80s.
I disagree with all of that, but let's assume that's true. So, give us one shred of evidence that Trump isn't Putin's bitch. I'm not asking you to prove a negative, but at least try to make an argument that would tend to indicate Trump isn't Putin's bitch. Something like "well, he talked nice about Putin during the campaign but he's filling his cabinet with anti-Putin people." We know that's not true. Or "ya know he might have gotten a little help during the election but he probably didn't know about it and it backfired on Putin anyway because now he's strengthening NATO." Nope. Maybe "Well, he may not want to investigate too deeply because it might turn up something that liberals could spin to make him look bad, but at least he's treating it seriously." Nope. He denies it even happened at all.

Since trump started running for president, everything he's ever said or done regarding Russia has been pro-Russia.
I don't know if the hacks got him elected, but ignoring them and looking at his actual actions, it's impossible to deny he's Putin's bitch.

Are you ok with that as long as these hacks don't make him look bad? As long as you can dismiss the hacks as liberal conspiracies, are you ok with his actual pro-Putin actions?


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#93

Post by Foggy »

I suspect Trump is being blackmailed. There's no other reason that seems to fully explain why he favors Russia over the United States.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#94

Post by RVInit »

Foggy wrote:I suspect Trump is being blackmailed. There's no other reason that seems to fully explain why he favors Russia over the United States.
It would be interesting to know how much business he has outside of the US as opposed to inside the US. We know he doesn't build anything anymore. All he does is sell his name. His attempts at actually doing business aside from selling his name appear to be mostly dismal failures. His son is on the record essentially saying that a large portion of their income is from Russia. I wouldn't be surprised if he is being blackmailed, but I suspect at the very least he has a lot of income on the line.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#95

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Foggy wrote:I suspect Trump is being blackmailed. There's no other reason that seems to fully explain why he favors Russia over the United States.
Equally likely... some lucrative business prospect dangled in front of him for when he leaves office.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#96

Post by Mikedunford »

Doing a longer post on this for my blog, and don't have a lot of time to expand, but -

I think the Russian involvement in our election is hugely concerning and needs to be investigated. The lack of a bipartisan consensus on this foreign threat is at least as concerning as the foreign involvement itself.

But I just don't see how it could have thrown the election to Trump.

As far as I can tell, nothing that was leaked created any new narrative about Clinton. The information just reinforced (in some cases only after massive spinning) already-existing narratives about Clinton's views on big business, the involvement of the DNC in the primary, and so on. I just can't see anything in there as being game-changing enough to have persuaded enough voters who would have voted for Clinton to either vote for Trump or not vote at all. For that to have happened, there could had to be tens of thousands of voters in three states who were persuaded to not vote Clinton on the strength of leaks that basically contained no new storylines.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#97

Post by June bug »

By itself, what we know of Russian interference wasn’t enough to tip the election to Trump…though arguably it might have made the game close enough to undermine confidence in the results had Hillary won. However, combine it with Clinton’s 9/11 stumble and the attendant conspiracy theories plus, most importantly, Comey’s letter, and you’ve got a steady drip, drip, drip of vitriol spreading through social media and the internet. That was enough to validate the Clinton fears of Trump supporters who were on the fence after the debates and the “p” video. In my opinion, it was also more than enough to give “Bernie bros” and others on the left a justification not to dirty their hands by voting for Clinton.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#98

Post by kate520 »

Comedy's letter swung the election four points away from Clinton, it has been determined.
Democrat Hillary Clinton would have won the US election if it was held the day before FBI director James Comey released an incendiary letter saying he was not done investigating her email scandal.

That's according to pollster Nate Silver, and other experts, who are examining what they're calling the "Comey effect" — a sharp swing in voter polls towards Donald Trump after the FBI director said he was investigating a newly discovered batch of Clinton emails on 28 October.

"Clinton would almost certainly be President-elect if the election had been held on Oct. 27," wrote Silver online Sunday. The American statistician gained notoriety for predicting things like the 2010 FIFA World Cup and election of President Barack Obama in 2008.

Less than two weeks before Election Day Comey wrote to eight different congressional committees that the "the FBI has learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the [Clinton] investigation." After the FBI analysed the trove of thousands of emails to see if they contained any classified or previously unknown information, Clinton was then cleared, without charges on 7 November, the day before the election.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hillary-clinto ... ls-1596078

Comedy's action was a direct result of the leaks, so I say they had exactly the desired effect.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#99

Post by bob »

Foggy wrote:The CIA says it has a lot of really solid evidence. Of course, rifleman1635 knows a lot more than the CIA about the situation.
Ob. birther: Obama's CIA.


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Re: CIA assessment: Russia tried to help Trump win & Senate knew it

#100

Post by rifleman1635 »

Foggy wrote:... except the information came from the Central Intelligence Agency. The Washington Post only reported it.

The CIA says it has a lot of really solid evidence. Of course, rifleman1635 knows a lot more than the CIA about the situation.
You mean the same CIA that assured us that Iraq had WMD back in 2001?

Oh - and so far, no one from the CIA has OFFICIALLY (or any other agency from all the news articles) stated that the Russians hacked anything.

There was the early warnings from the FBI to the DNC about a compromised machine "phoning home" but how the machine got compromised is unknown.

So far, you ppl are bleating your heads off saying "Russia! Russia! Russia!" with the same rational logic that so many regressives on the right are bleating "Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!" ...

This whole thing is a bunch of NONSENSE that is taking time and resources away from addressing the REAL problems this nation is facing - like poverty, the coming healthcare crisis, and the housing crisis.


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