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Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:33 pm
by esseff44
It's about time we have a thread to debunk the prominent lies and misconceptions surrounding Hillary's e-mail issues which have become central to doubts and claims about her trustworthiness. They have become the equivalent of the birther questions Obama had to deal with. However, Obama did not have almost all of the mainstream media buying into the misconceptions and promoting the lies.

Since the issue is continuing to haunt her in the final days, as sick and tired as we all are of hearing about Hillary's e-mails, some basic facts need to be made clear.

Cross posted from the Hillary thread:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cass ... hief-forum
Clinton, of course, has also made some statements in the past that have turned out to be incomplete or downright false. At the start of the forum, Lauer spent quite a lot of time grilling Clinton about her private e-mail server, and whether she had mishandled classified information, subjects on which Clinton’s language has, shall we say, evolved. She insisted that none of the e-mails she sent or received as Secretary of State had a proper classified header. But she didn’t point out—as the Washington Post’s Fact Checker column did—that, according to James Comey, the director of the F.B.I., three e-mails sent to her server bore the marking “(c),” which stood for “confidential.”
She didn't point those things out because she was cut off. On top of that she was criticized for even trying to clarify as much as she did and it was dismissed as 'defensive' and 'legalistic.' How else could she have answered the question?

Comey answered a question from one of the GOP committee members. Did Clinton say there was no classified information included in e-mails that were sent and received on her server. The answer was 'yes.' Was there classified information included in e-mails sent and received on her private server. He answered 'yes.' However at different times, he answered questions from Dem committee members that qualified those answers and that is not what is being made clear to the public. Some of what has since been 'upclassified' was not marked as such when it was sent and recieved. It was 'upclassified' when sent to different agencies and each has it own rules for classification. It is not uniform across the government.

Then, the were the infamous three e-mails that contained the (c) for 'confidential' markings that the State Department said were left in messages but should have been taken out before they were sent to the Secretary. However, those messages did not have the headers and footers that would have indicated that the message contained confidential information. Without those stamps, the internal (c) before a paragraph could have been taken for other purposes.

This is the sort of thing that people who handle classified information would know. This is why the FBI and Comey came to the conclusion that the was no intentional mishandling of classified information.

What is unclear to me (and I doubt we will find out anytime soon if ever) is how serious was the breech if there was one of any consequence with information that was later 'upclassified.' Of course we can't know or find out because it is now classified and no one can talk about it. :brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall: So, that leaves openings for all kinds of claims of incompetence, negligence, extreme carelessness, etc. against which it is impossible to defend.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:32 pm
by esseff44
I can't link to this WaPo editorial:

The Hillary Clinton email story is out of control

It covers several of the issues such as what Colin Powell told her about the dangers of using private e-mail and how he did it to avoid leaving a record.

It covers Comey's memo about the criticism of the FBI investigation of the e-mail and server.

The editorial says there is no evidence that any damage was done to national security as a result of the mistakes that were made.
Last is a finding that 30 Benghazi-related emails that were recovered during the FBI email investigation and recently attracted big headlines had nothing significant in them. Only one, in fact, was previously undisclosed, and it contained nothing but a compliment from a diplomat. But the damage of the “30 deleted Benghazi emails” story has already been done.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:43 pm
by vic
esseff44 wrote:I can't link to this WaPo editorial:

The Hillary Clinton email story is out of control

It covers several of the issues such as what Colin Powell told her about the dangers of using private e-mail and how he did it to avoid leaving a record.

It covers Comey's memo about the criticism of the FBI investigation of the e-mail and server.

The editorial says there is no evidence that any damage was done to national security as a result of the mistakes that were made.
Last is a finding that 30 Benghazi-related emails that were recovered during the FBI email investigation and recently attracted big headlines had nothing significant in them. Only one, in fact, was previously undisclosed, and it contained nothing but a compliment from a diplomat. But the damage of the “30 deleted Benghazi emails” story has already been done.
The Google search for the title has the story as the first hit. WaPo lets you read stories when you are coming from google, click on the link here, then click on the story link that google returns:

google search for the title

If you don't mind using incognito/private browsing, here's the direct link (hint- you can usually right-click on the link and select something like "open link in incognito window") :

link to WaPo story

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail - more investigation as of 10/27

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:32 pm
by Kriselda Gray
Per WaPo, the FBI is going to do another investigation re: Hillary's emails...
In a letter to Congressional leaders, Comey said that the FBI had, in connection with an “unrelated case,” recently “learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the Clinton investigation.”

Comey indicated that he had been briefed on the new material yesterday. “I agreed that the FBI should take appropriate investigative steps designed to allow investigators to review these emails to determine whether they contain classified information, as well as to assess their importance to our investigation,” he wrote.
http://wapo.st/2eVf9jQ

The Bundys go free, Trump is arching up in some poll's (CNN moved Florida and Nevada back to "battleground" from "Leans Democratic" and now this. I hope the local drug stores have a good amount of ant-acids in stock... I'm going to need them...

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:35 pm
by BillTheCat
BREAKING NEWS OCT 28 2016, 1:27 PM ET
FBI Says It Will Investigate New Emails From Clinton's Server
We're fucked. :blackeye: Watch her numbers tank over this. :madguy: This is BAD FUCKING NEWS.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:44 pm
by MN-Skeptic
The DOW just dropped 140 points. The idea of Trump winning the election puts a whammy on the stock market.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:47 pm
by MN-Skeptic
The peso just tanked too.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:48 pm
by BillTheCat
This what everyone worried about. And now it's happening.

Dammit to hell. :evil:

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:51 pm
by SuzieC
Anyone know what "unrelated case"? Hello,October surprise. Fortunately millions have already voted.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:53 pm
by p0rtia
Just saw this on the tv. Wonderful timing. I am reminded of a quote from Lily Tomlin (or her writers):

No matter how cynical I get, it's never enough to keep up.

:explode:

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:06 pm
by Karen Walker
Fuckin' Chaffetz and dumbass media for not bothering to read the actual letter first!!!
:cussing: :smokeears:
IMG_2776.JPG
IMG_2777.JPG
:explode:

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:08 pm
by Karen Walker
And yes... even if Comey follows up with a statement - it's too late now to make the distinction. Chaffetz and the media have set the narrative in stone.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:08 pm
by BillTheCat
Mark my words: Her numbers are going to tumble.

Just look at the fucking field day every MSM org is having out there. :madguy:

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:09 pm
by Sterngard Friegen
Look at the bright side. This is catnip heroin for Trump and most people don't care any more. Trump's only slim chance has been to get on the economic messages and to lay off the personal attacks. This will knock him off the message that actually helped him last month and that he was, reluctantly, returning to this week.

While James Comey is bound and determined to want to affect this election (like the football refs who make the game all about the penalties they over call), this may actually work to Mrs. Clinton's benefit. (On the whole, though, Comey should have just shut the fuck up.)

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:11 pm
by BillTheCat
Sterngard Friegen wrote:this will actually work to Mrs. Clinton's benefit.

I don't see how that's possible, at all. Not even a little.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:12 pm
by listeme
BillTheCat wrote:Mark my words: Her numbers are going to tumble.

Just look at the fucking field day every MSM org is having out there. :madguy:
Almost 20 percent of voters have voted.

Who is going to change their minds over this? I am certainly not.

I don't think they'll tumble. Tighten, prolly, but not tumble. Simmer down :)

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:13 pm
by listeme
Sterngard Friegen wrote:Look at the bright side. This is catnip heroin for Trump and most people don't care any more. Trump's only slim chance has been to get on the economic messages and to lay off the personal attacks. This will knock him off the message that actually helped him last month and that he was, reluctantly, returning to this week.

While James Comey is bound and determined to want to affect this election (like the football refs who make the game all about the penalties they over call), this may actually work to Mrs. Clinton's benefit. (On the whole, though, Comey should have just shut the fuck up.)
Comey is WAY out of line unless there's something criminal, and I very much doubt there is anything criminal.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:15 pm
by BillTheCat
PERCEPTION and OPTICS are all that matters to the more uninformed voters. Who cares if there is something "criminal"? Like anyone cares about facts.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:17 pm
by listeme
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Sam SteinVerified account
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Pete Williams has sources saying not about Clinton world w/holding emails. Not about Podesta emails. Not emails from Clinton.
Pete Williams sources also say it isn't going to be a game changer. But will take more than 11 days
Pete Williams sources say in course of a separate investigation, FBI came across "a device." found emails there. but emails NOT from HRC

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:19 pm
by p0rtia
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
:snippity:

While James Comey is bound and determined to want to affect this election (like the football refs who make the game all about the penalties they over call), this may actually work to Mrs. Clinton's benefit. (On the whole, though, Comey should have just shut the fuck up.)
It boggles what's left of the mind. All the time the FBI/JD/whoeverthefuck has dribbled out emails over the past year, I've though, "Gee that seems below the belt. I wonder if it's being done to affect the election." I don't have any doubt at this point, because seriously, this is disgraceful.

The idea that it may work in HRC's favor also occurred to me--at least in terms of those already planning to vote for her (though the excitement of her antagonists will explode). Because this is just so blatant. I think. Reading the actual letter, it seems pretty tame. But then nobody in Comey's position would ever be that bone-jarringly naive.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:20 pm
by p0rtia
listeme wrote:
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Sam SteinVerified account
‏@samsteinhp
Pete Williams has sources saying not about Clinton world w/holding emails. Not about Podesta emails. Not emails from Clinton.
And if not, what the fuck is Comey doing sending a letter worded as this letter was worded?

:twoup:

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:23 pm
by Mikedunford
1: Comey is politically untouchable, can do whatever he wants, and knows it.
2: Given the way the last day has gone, I'm almost willing to be that the unrelated investigation involves the Denis Montgomery bullshit.
3: But Trump will find a way to make this worse. For him. And that will probably relate to his frustration when this sucks all the attention away from his overly orange face.

4: I'm going to have one bourbon, one scotch, and one beer. And go to bed.

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:24 pm
by p0rtia
Karen Walker wrote:And yes... even if Comey follows up with a statement - it's too late now to make the distinction. Chaffetz and the media have set the narrative in stone.
Exactly. On MSNBC just now (right before they interview effing Jan Brewer :brickwallsmall: ) They had a text that read:

FBI Director says "We're taking a new look at the Clinton emails."

In quotes. Just like that.

It's early, but I'm not seeing where he said anything like that.

:explode:

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:24 pm
by RoadScholar
Comey didn't say there was a single iota of bad news for Hillary. His statements were carefully worded. But he IS playing the old "I'm just asking the question" gambit like Birthers have done for years, and look at the people who still believe that. He obviously wanted for his words to be TAKEN as indicating something alarming going on. :evil:

Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:33 pm
by listeme
RoadScholar wrote:Comey didn't say there was a single iota of bad news for Hillary. His statements were carefully worded. But he IS playing the old "I'm just asking the question" gambit like Birthers have done for years, and look at the people who still believe that. He obviously wanted for his words to be TAKEN as indicating something alarming going on. :evil:
Yup.

My trump-voting relatives are having a rare happy afternoon, I will say that, though.