Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#76

Post by TollandRCR »

So do red herrings come in darker shades?

What I wonder is whether Comey is trying to prevent the election of Hillary Clinton or trying to ensure the election of Donald Trump. They are somewhat different sets of motivations and perhaps of actions.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#77

Post by p0rtia »

listeme wrote:
TollandRCR wrote:Why would Hillary's assistant Huma have been sending classified e-mails to her husband? It makes no sense in any world in which Huma is assumed to be competent. So I suspect this is all a red herring.
She wasn't.

Her account wasn't for classified communications.
Also too, I'm hearing that Huma used the computer to send/receive emails. So it's not an issue of emails to/from AW from Huma, it's emails to/from Huma and whoever.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#78

Post by esseff44 »

TollandRCR wrote:So do red herrings come in darker shades?

What I wonder is whether Comey is trying to prevent the election of Hillary Clinton or trying to ensure the election of Donald Trump. They are somewhat different sets of motivations and perhaps of actions.
Or maybe neither. It seems to me he is just Comey being Comey and not thinking about or caring about the consequences of his public statements. He likes to think of himself as being independent and above the politics of it all but of course he's completely wrong about that. But the media and the voters have an obligation as well to carefully look at all the information and the context. The problem is that the loud spinning and deliberately misleading headlines are as far as most people get. If the voters can't be bothered to inform themselves, then we get what lousy government we get. When unsupported opinions and beliefs rule over facts and reality, we all have to suffer the consequences.

That is one of the reasons we need a lot more debunking fora and also places people can go to for objective fact-checking that is reliable and trustworthy.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#79

Post by p0rtia »

esseff44 wrote:
TollandRCR wrote:So do red herrings come in darker shades?

What I wonder is whether Comey is trying to prevent the election of Hillary Clinton or trying to ensure the election of Donald Trump. They are somewhat different sets of motivations and perhaps of actions.
Or maybe neither. It seems to me he is just Comey being Comey and not thinking about or caring about the consequences of his public statements. He likes to think of himself as being independent and above the politics of it all but of course he's completely wrong about that. But the media and the voters have an obligation as well to carefully look at all the information and the context. The problem is that the loud spinning and deliberately misleading headlines are as far as most people get. If the voters can't be bothered to inform themselves, then we get what lousy government we get. When unsupported opinions and beliefs rule over facts and reality, we all have to suffer the consequences.

That is one of the reasons we need a lot more debunking fora and also places people can go to for objective fact-checking that is reliable and trustworthy.
This. I heard/read the same thing twice this morning. The Arrogance of Comey.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#80

Post by esseff44 »

p0rtia wrote:
listeme wrote:
TollandRCR wrote:Why would Hillary's assistant Huma have been sending classified e-mails to her husband? It makes no sense in any world in which Huma is assumed to be competent. So I suspect this is all a red herring.
She wasn't.

Her account wasn't for classified communications.
Also too, I'm hearing that Huma used the computer to send/receive emails. So it's not an issue of emails to/from AW from Huma, it's emails to/from Huma and whoever.
The accounts I read said that there was a laptop used by Huma and Anthony and it found there were e-mails on it that were in an account that Huma had that was on the Clinton server. I don't think this is new information that Huma and other people connected to the Clinton Foundation had e-mail accounts on the private server. In all liklihood, there are no new e-mails that have not been reviewed already that were related to State Department affairs. I think it has to do with the account being on the Clinton server which was the subject of the investigation.

If this is the case, Comey should have made that clear. As the DoJ people have said, putting the information out this way is very irresponsible and he needs to clean up the misunderstandings his letter has created. He owes the American people an apology for the equivalent of screaming 'Fire' in a crowded theater without knowing if there was a fire or not.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#81

Post by kate520 »

I know someone who went to law school and worked with Comey in NY a while back. Arrogance, yes, but partisan, too.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#82

Post by p0rtia »

I wonder if Comey had the common sense to realize that it would take a new york minute for the connection to the Weiner investigation to materialize. Heard somewhere this morning that he should not have referred to that investigation at all--but he as good as did, didn't he?
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#83

Post by p0rtia »

kate520 wrote:I know someone who went to law school and worked with Comey in NY a while back. Arrogance, yes, but partisan, too.
When Comey held his press conference this past summer, I googled the hell out of him, and found unanimous praise of his non-partisanship. So I bought into that. But Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.

Anyway, your post reminds me that another thing I heard this morning as I flipped through the xm channels was somebody saying that he prides himself on being non-partisan--which leads to him being unable to see when he _is_ being partisan as well as leads to the non-partisan reputation.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#84

Post by MRich »

I think the Clinton campaign has done as good a job as possible putting out this fire. And I've seen many journalists with tweets and articles about how this is a whole lot of nothing.

My fear is that people won't search out this information and will just throw up their hands and say "that's it! She's corrupt!". Hopefully anyone who has already made up their minds won't change them due to this. But unfortunately this country is full of voters who don't do any research; I hate that someone like that will cancel out my vote!
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#85

Post by Kriselda Gray »

TollandRCR wrote:Why would Hillary's assistant Huma have been sending classified e-mails to her husband? It makes no sense in any world in which Huma is assumed to be competent. So I suspect this is all a red herring.
Hillary preferred to read messages on paper rather than on the small screen of her phone, so Huma would forward messages she'd receive and felt Hillary needed to read to the laptop she and her husband shared as it was connected to a printer. She would then give Hillary the paper copies of the messages. The messages were neither to nor from Hillary and Hillary never saw the electronic copies.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#86

Post by esseff44 »

Kriselda Gray wrote:
TollandRCR wrote:Why would Hillary's assistant Huma have been sending classified e-mails to her husband? It makes no sense in any world in which Huma is assumed to be competent. So I suspect this is all a red herring.
Hillary preferred to read messages on paper rather than on the small screen of her phone, so Huma would forward messages she'd receive and felt Hillary needed to read to the laptop she and her husband shared as it was connected to a printer. She would then give Hillary the paper copies of the messages. The messages were neither to nor from Hillary and Hillary never saw the electronic copies.
It strikes me as very strange that the FBI has had possession of this laptop for months and have just now discovered that Huma had an e-mail account that they must have known about previously and that she had accessed that account on this device. I am sure that she accessed the account on many devices just like many of us do.

The more I think about it, the more hinky the whole 'review' appears to be. :confused: :nope: :nope:
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#87

Post by Karen Walker »

I realize this thread is meant to debunk bogus info but I would not be surprised if this comes up eventually or at least it should be considered.

One potential scenario that has not been widely discussed... With all the rat-fucking Russia has done to date is it *that* unreasonable to consider Weiner was an easy target to compromise & hack his devices? Ignoring for a minute the Orange Menace's previous statement before the depth of the hackings were known publicly- maybe he slipped his inside info from his BFF Putin?

I'm not saying Weiner doesn't deserve to be investigated for his disgusting behaviour. He is a scumbag & deserves what he gets. I'm suggesting the "other investigation" may not *only* be about his correspondence with the minor but may also have ties to the Russia hackings.

Once Russia got into his device(s) Huma was also compromised. They could have planted bogus emails, correspondence, etc. that appear to be from, to or by her and/or infiltrated her legitimate email accounts that she accessed from those devices.

Consider this scary scenario: Russian hacker writes a bogus "top secret" email/document from Huma's account & deletes it before she ever sees it. Huma would never know about the deleted email/doc but it would be recoverable by the FBI.

Anyway... just a thought.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#88

Post by MsDaisy »

esseff44 wrote: :snippity:
It strikes me as very strange that the FBI has had possession of this laptop for months and have just now discovered that Huma had an e-mail account that they must have known about previously and that she had accessed that account on this device. I am sure that she accessed the account on many devices just like many of us do.

The more I think about it, the more hinky the whole 'review' appears to be. :confused: :nope: :nope:
I haven't seen that information anywhere, If that's true this is even more fucked up. I don't believe for a minute Comey didn't intend to undermine the Clinton campaign by pulling this stunt. He claims he was briefed on this the day before he sent that letter. Did he lie about that I wonder?
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#89

Post by Plutodog »

Clearly, the guy decided it was cool to insert doubt into the election that cannot be eradicated before election day, no matter what. If anything is political, this was. :evil:
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#90

Post by MsDaisy »

MRich wrote: :snippity:
My fear is that people won't search out this information and will just throw up their hands and say "that's it! She's corrupt!". Hopefully anyone who has already made up their minds won't change them due to this. But unfortunately this country is full of voters who don't do any research; I hate that someone like that will cancel out my vote!
Of course there are many trumpsters out there who already believe this to be true and will reject outright any claim or evidence that it isn't.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#91

Post by esseff44 »

IMHO, Comey has a duty to the country to come out and clean up his mess.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#92

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Interfering with a national election? Who the hell does Comey think he is, head of the CIA?
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#93

Post by bob »

Karen Walker wrote:One potential scenario that has not been widely discussed... With all the rat-fucking Russia has done to date is it *that* unreasonable to consider Weiner was an easy target to compromise & hack his devices?
Dennis Montgomery told Arpaio this would be an easy way to destroy someone.

But I'm not saying Arpaio, Montgomery, and Zullo conspired to hack Weiner's account. :evil:
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#94

Post by Hercule Parrot »

listeme wrote:She did not decide to use her blackberry for classified communications. She did not set up a server in her basement for classified communications. Y'all are saying "gosh, it was such bad judgment for her to do this thing for classified communications!"
I didn't specify classified communications. Clearly that would have been even worse.

But regardless, what HRC did in this situation was an extremely bad judgement. All her communications in her official capacity are the property of the government, and were required by regulations to be conducted via official systems. It was a foolish and arrogant decision to declare herself exempt from that normal process. And her subsequent high-and-mighty attitude made the situation worse.

For a long time HRC falsely claimed that this arrangement was normal and authorised by the State Dept, and that she had done nothing wrong at all. She and her close advisers refused to co-operate with the State Department inspector general's investigation. It took 21 months before HRC finally handed over the records of her official activity, and even then she firstly deleted 30,000 emails which she had arbitrarily decided the government shouldn't have. Perhaps the most offensive gesture of all was to only provide the disclosed emails as paper print-outs (55,000 pages), plainly calculated to obstruct search, analysis or indexing of her official communications whilst in public service.

I don't understand how anyone can defend this. It's so very clearly wrong to operate a public office from a secretive, private communications system, and to then resist any accountability for that behaviour. We can't condemn Sheriff Glenn Palmer for doing this, but then say that HRC was a special snowflake and the rules don't apply to her.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#95

Post by TollandRCR »

As the technical reasons for Secretary Clinton's use of a private server are stated, I become more amazed. Sending e-mails to the laptop that Huma shared with her husband so that they could be printed (is that right?) is more than slightly absurd. Even back when she was Secretary it was possible to buy and operate a printer in one's office or even at one's home. Why involve Huma and Weiner?
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#96

Post by Dan1100 »

The Trump supporters think it proves what they already know, that Hillary is corrupt and belongs in prison.

The Hillary supporters think it proves what they already know, that Hillary didn't do anything wrong and it is all a right wing conspiracy to discredit her.

Anyone who has worked on an IT help desk for the government or a large business think it proves what they already know, that users in management and executive positions are idiots and shouldn't be allowed to have computers.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#97

Post by RoadScholar »

Hercule Parrot wrote:
listeme wrote:She did not decide to use her blackberry for classified communications. She did not set up a server in her basement for classified communications. Y'all are saying "gosh, it was such bad judgment for her to do this thing for classified communications!"
But regardless, what HRC did in this situation was an extremely bad judgement. All her communications in her official capacity are the property of the government, and were required by regulations to be conducted via official systems. It was a foolish and arrogant decision to declare herself exempt from that normal process. And her subsequent high-and-mighty attitude made the situation worse...
I don't understand how anyone can defend this. It's so very clearly wrong to operate a public office from a secretive, private communications system, and to then resist any accountability for that behaviour. We can't condemn Sheriff Glenn Palmer for doing this, but then say that HRC was a special snowflake and the rules don't apply to her.
Get a grip. Compare what she did (which apparently many other Cabinet members have done in the past) with the Bush-Cheney cabal. They completely ignored Congressional summonses, and deleted millions of emails. They outed the identity of a CIA agent to cover up the lies they were selling about why they had to go into Iraq. Just for starters.

So take a deep breath and please calm the rhetoric a bit. All these "investigations" are nothing more than a witch-hunt based on a fishing expedition.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#98

Post by RoadScholar »

TollandRCR wrote:As the technical reasons for Secretary Clinton's use of a private server are stated, I become more amazed. Sending e-mails to the laptop that Huma shared with her husband so that they could be printed (is that right?) is more than slightly absurd. Even back when she was Secretaryit was possible to buy and operate a printer in one's office or even at one's home. Why involve Huma and Weiner?
That's just it; she wasn't at home most of the time. She was running around operating through her Blackberry, which is problematic to print from. So Huma made hard copy and handed it to her. So what? What so many are calling heinous, wildly irresponsible behavior seems to me just typical bureaucratic sloppiness in the press of events, and other public figures are probably doing the same thing even as we speak.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#99

Post by Hercule Parrot »

RoadScholar wrote:Get a grip. Compare what she did (which apparently many other Cabinet members have done in the past) with the Bush-Cheney cabal. They completely ignored Congressional summonses, and deleted millions of emails. They outed the identity of a CIA agent to cover up the lies they were selling about why they had to go into Iraq. Just for starters.
Yes, very probably so. But that doesn't make HRC's own behaviour right. The shabbiest excuse anyone can make is to point to another and say "but he's doing worse". Speeding drivers say that the Police should be catching burglars, burglars say that the Police should be catching rapists, and the rapists say that the Police should be catching murderers. It's like excusing Abu Ghraib because ISIS are more cruel to their prisoners.

I don't think the email thing disqualifies HRC, and I don't doubt that she's by far the better candidate over Trump. But I refuse to wear rose-tinted glasses. This episode demonstrates an arrogant and dishonest aspect of her character.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#100

Post by esseff44 »

TollandRCR wrote:As the technical reasons for Secretary Clinton's use of a private server are stated, I become more amazed. Sending e-mails to the laptop that Huma shared with her husband so that they could be printed (is that right?) is more than slightly absurd. Even back when she was Secretary it was possible to buy and operate a printer in one's office or even at one's home. Why involve Huma and Weiner?
We do not know that any of the e-mails at issue were from or to HRC. From the leaks (because nothing is official about the involvement of Huma and sexty husband or their devices) it appears that Huma had an e-mail account on the Clinton server. We also know the server had been used before HRC became SoS and had been used for Clinton Foundation business. Huma had two positions. We do not know if any of the e-mails at issue had anything to do with State Department business at all. The speculation is running rampant and most of it is based on false assumptions.

Comey has just made everything worse by using a veil of transparency to obfuscate and obscure. He has a duty to clean this mess up.
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