Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#201

Post by Foggy » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:07 pm

Wifehorn has the candy bowl. Why won't she let me have any? :violin: :crying:

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#202

Post by Foggy » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:10 pm

I seriously would like to see what probable cause there is for that warrant. Jeez. :roll:

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#203

Post by June bug » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:20 pm

Foggy wrote:I seriously would like to see what probable cause there is for that warrant. Jeez. :roll:
So would Chuck Grassley. In fact he wants any FBI affidavits in support of a warrant released to the public...so more unproven allegations can be tossed around just prior to the election.

OTOH, from Karen upthread:
but the warrant was likely issued because Huma swore under oath she'd turned over all devices & emails. Ooopsss...

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#204

Post by listeme » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:35 pm

Would that be something like "warrant for things we already got a warrant for but didn't get all of" in some sort of legal lingo then?
We're used to being told it's our fault that men don't listen to us.

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#205

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:11 pm

An IMHO: After I heard that Comey was already about two weeks aware of "Clinton" emails on Weiners machine, I still wonder why Comey was unable to get the authority in short time as an "emergency considering the Election cycle", to at least make limited a triage and ensure that (hopefully) no emails were from HRCs time as SoS and keep any legally locked for a later investigation. Then he could have come forward and said there was no fire where a Weiner was smoking. I don't know how long Huma Abedin used her home computer for printoffs. It would be a really bad sign on governance had she used it to print official documents outside of any secure environment. And as a PS inrefernece to official documents, should any be discovered, I don't believe there will be any new, eg to date unknown emails, only duplicate of already known stuff.

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#206

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:15 pm

At a Nevada rally, Drumpf is so diplomatic he directly thanks a potential child molester...

[bbvideo=560,315][/bbvideo]

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#207

Post by Hercule Parrot » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:17 pm

Suranis wrote:
Hercule Parrot wrote: Perhaps also piqued by envy and denied privilege, and vulnerable to making a rash decision.
Thanks for playing. Have a nice day. :roll:
I'm not playing, Suranis. It's just my opinion, sincerely expressed. I do think that HRC is flawed by a sense of entitlement, perhaps naturally given the lifestyle she is used to. I also think that she has an unfortunate tendency towards paranoia & secrecy, perhaps naturally given the attacks she has been subjected to. Others may disagree, that's how opinions are.

I think that she made a spectacularly poor decision re the off-grid email server, perhaps relying too much upon her closest advisers who will of course tend to share her worldview. I think she made that situation worse by prolonged denial and obstruction, and her staff have made it worse by leaving unsecured data all over the place. It's an utter fiasco. Against any rival but the idiotic Trump, this might have cost her the election. As Neera Tanden remarked - "“Do we actually know who told Hillary she could use private email? And has that person been drawn and quartered? Like the whole thing is fucking insane.

Nonetheless I don't think this makes HRC a bad person, or unfit to serve in office. Many other politicians have many worse traits. I personally have worse traits. I don't need to put her on a pedestal, I can respect and admire her in the totality of her achievements - warts and all. She is the better candidate, and I would be voting for her without hesitation if I lived in the US.

PS : As long as she promised not to murder Vince Foster again, obviously... :lol:

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#208

Post by TexasFilly » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:19 pm

RTH10260 wrote:An IMHO: After I heard that Comey was already about two weeks aware of "Clinton" emails on Weiners machine, I still wonder why Comey was unable to get the authority in short time as an "emergency considering the Election cycle", to at least make limited a triage and ensure that (hopefully) no emails were from HRCs time as SoS and keep any legally locked for a later investigation. Then he could have come forward and said there was no fire where a Weiner was smoking. I don't know how long Huma Abedin used her home computer for printoffs. It would be a really bad sign on governance had she used it to print official documents outside of any secure environment. And as a PS inrefernece to official documents, should any be discovered, I don't believe there will be any new, eg to date unknown emails, only duplicate of already known stuff.
I think you heard wrong. The FBI agents investigating Weiner knew about the "other" emails since early October. They just went to Comey on Thursday about it.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#209

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:28 pm

In this case my local newspapers picked up the timing wrongly from their sources. I was left with the impression that Comey knew of the quicksand already.

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#210

Post by esseff44 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:32 pm

I know Keith can seem overwrought at times, but that piece is just how I feel right now. Damn their Grand Old Hides to someplace where the sun don't shine.

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#211

Post by Notorial Dissent » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:25 pm

Epectitus, of the twenty-five one hundredths of one percent of the total emails recovered, that were CLASSIFIED, I wonder how many of them actually were of any actual import or significance? Since anything can be classified, and often is, saying they are classified is relatively meaningless.

I still don't think her using a private server was the smartest thing I've heard of recently, but hardly criminal, and considering the actual hemorrhaging of information that SSA, State, Defense, GAO have been subject to over the last two years. I'm actually much more concerned about the reams of personal and personnel information that were scammed out of the computer system a year ago than I am about HRC calling someone a bad name or making fun of someone, which I think is about what most of this amounts to.

What I would really like to know is HOW they managed to get 650,000 emails on a laptop, that has to be some hard drive.

What I am concerned with is the purported upwelling of threatened resignations at the FBI because the agents WEREN'T allowed to investigate. I thought they had done a whole lot of investigating over the last two years and come up with bupkis. Did I miss something?
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#212

Post by Fortinbras » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:06 pm

Tonight (Mon., Oct 31st) on HBO, Vice News Tonight included a segment on the latest e-mail fuss with a journalist (Jason Leopold) who appeared well-informed opining that the emails on Weiner's computer were most likely duplicates of emails already examined more directly. In fact, the probable explanation for why the emails wound up on Weiner's computer also explains the business about why HRC preferred using her own email server.

HRC wanted hard copy print-outs of some of her State Dept emails. However, printing was difficult from the State Dept's own email system, so Huma Abedin would copy the emails into her private email account so she could more easily print them out (as stated in Abedin's FBI interview, April 7, 2016), one of those accounts (a Yahoo account) was used by Abedin to support husband Weiner's campaign activities, which explains how come a copy was on his computer. Evidently Abedin wasn't as careful as she should have been, but the emails involved were probably already seen by the FBI in examining HRC's own machines, and FBI people do not expect to find anything remarkable.

Altho Trump keeps talking about how "devastating" those emails are, I suspect that the vast majority of them are incredibly tedious and ephemeral, if "delicate":
"Q: Are you going to the Embassy ball tonight or should we prepare an excuse?"
"A: Make an excuse for me. Goddam ambassador tried to get me drunk last time."
"Q: Should we pack the blue or the green gown for the trip to Brussels?"
"Q: Who's going to babysit Bill while you're in Cairo?"
etc.

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#213

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:40 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote: :snippity:
What I would really like to know is HOW they managed to get 650,000 emails on a laptop, that has to be some hard drive.
:snippity:
?
IFF I get my math and counting the zeros correctly, at the simple one full page email at 2000 characters, that ends up to something near net 1.3GB disk space, perhaps 2GB with file information. Nothing extrordinary by todays standard where recent units come with TB (terra byte) sizes and elderly ones would have been in the 200-500GB range.

Following the rumors that the "hidden and secreted" mails were stashed in a "Life Insurance" folder, I would even venture that Huma Abedin was truly thinking of having a backup in case their main server blew up.

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#214

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:46 pm

Please read the full article as I am am not in the mood to pick significant statements from it, just first four para as per rule
F.B.I. Begins Review of Clinton Aide’s Emails

By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT, MATT APUZZO and ADAM GOLDMANOCT. 31, 2016

WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. on Monday began loading a trove of emails belonging to a top aide to Hillary Clinton into a special computer program that would allow bureau analysts to determine whether they contain classified information, law enforcement officials said.

The software should allow them to learn relatively quickly how many emails are copies of messages they have already read as part of the investigation into the use of Mrs. Clinton’s private server. The F.B.I. completed that investigation in July and, along with prosecutors, decided not to bring any charges against Mrs. Clinton or her aides.

Whether investigators will be able to complete their review by Election Day is unclear, although they have been under intense pressure from officials in both parties to do so since Friday, when the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, revealed the existence of the emails in an explosive letter to Congress.

Robert E. Anderson Jr., a former senior F.B.I. executive, said it could take less than a day for the program to identify duplicates. He said that the program would organize the duplicates in a special folder and that F.B.I. agents and analysts would then check each of them to make sure they were indeed copies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/po ... s-fbi.html

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#215

Post by Karen Walker » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:53 pm

My theory for how they ended up on Weiner's computer is far more simple.

My son and I share an iTunes account. Before iCloud came along we would sync our iPhones to my Mac because it holds the majority of our shared music library. Glitches would happen often & our contacts, mail, notes, texts, etc. would merge. It was a huge pain in the ass.

Also too... It makes no sense for Huma to use Weiner's computer to print emails. She could have used her own laptop, yahoo account, smart phone, etc. to print off documents from home.

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#216

Post by Plutodog » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:33 pm

I just don't buy the idea that all these emails needed to be passed to outside government computers for printing out. The SOS had the power and the budget to get them all printed on gov't printers, delivered to her anywhere on earth. It was a dumb unforced error.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#217

Post by Mr. Gneiss » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:58 pm

Here's my wild arsed guess, Karen. Huma's soon to be ex somehow was aware of her Yahoo email account and password. If Yahoo is like Gmail (which I use), you can download all of your emails to a "new" device. Perhaps, Mr. Weiner accessed her account and downloaded all of her emails onto his laptop. If he had access to her account he could have disabled any notifications prior to the download.

I heard on MSNBC tonight (not sure if it was Rachel or Lawrence) that Hume's lawyer has responded. The quote below is from the New York Times - F.B.I. Begins Review of Clinton Aide’s Emails
Ms. Abedin’s lawyer, Karen Dunn, issued a statement late Monday afternoon, her first comments since the disclosure on Friday that Mr. Weiner’s laptop contained her client’s emails, a development that she said Ms. Abedin had learned of from news reports.

“From the beginning, Ms. Abedin has complied fully and voluntarily with State Department and law enforcement requests, including sitting for hourslong interviews and providing her work-related and potentially work-related documents,” the statement said. “While the F.B.I. has not contacted us about this, Ms. Abedin will continue to be, as she always has been, forthcoming and cooperative.”
Until I see proof otherwise, I'll take Ms. Abedin at her word. It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Weiner stole his wife's emails in an attempt to know what she is "up to" as the divorce proceedings continue. Just my WAG, nothing more.

P.S. BTW....thank you and the other Badass Ladies for letting me be a short-time member of the group. :thumbs:

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#218

Post by Notorial Dissent » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:04 am

Karen Walker wrote:My theory for how they ended up on Weiner's computer is far more simple.

My son and I share an iTunes account. Before iCloud came along we would sync our iPhones to my Mac because it holds the majority of our shared music library. Glitches would happen often & our contacts, mail, notes, texts, etc. would merge. It was a huge pain in the ass.

Also too... It makes no sense for Huma to use Weiner's computer to print emails. She could have used her own laptop, yahoo account, smart phone, etc. to print off documents from home.
A problem I've encountered, through a friend, whose accounts when they sync up between phone and various computers and tablets now creat copies of copies of copies of the same file on one of her computers, and because I made the mistake of letting her use one of my laptops for a while I had the same thing happening from her phone, until I totally disabled and removed all the Apple crap on my computer. For the record, I detest Apple and all its works.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#219

Post by SueDB » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:19 am

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Karen Walker wrote:My theory for how they ended up on Weiner's computer is far more simple.

My son and I share an iTunes account. Before iCloud came along we would sync our iPhones to my Mac because it holds the majority of our shared music library. Glitches would happen often & our contacts, mail, notes, texts, etc. would merge. It was a huge pain in the ass.

Also too... It makes no sense for Huma to use Weiner's computer to print emails. She could have used her own laptop, yahoo account, smart phone, etc. to print off documents from home.
A problem I've encountered, through a friend, whose accounts when they sync up between phone and various computers and tablets now creat copies of copies of copies of the same file on one of her computers, and because I made the mistake of letting her use one of my laptops for a while I had the same thing happening from her phone, until I totally disabled and removed all the Apple crap on my computer. For the record, I detest Apple and all its works.
Whether or not a sync program was a culpret, you really have to watch out for them. If you don't, you may find your 60k of E-mails spread out all over Hell's half acre.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#220

Post by busterbunker » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:31 am

Confidential Email and Private Servers are oxymorons like jumbo shrimp. They don't exist. Nothing is secure on the Internet.

I've seen a couple secure systems but they ran on modem and dial-up. There's some start-up stuff with good ad-copy, but who are you getting in bed with?

Meanwhile,we're all playing fast and loose. Hackers gonna hack. There will be a lot more of this.

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#221

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:38 am

Plutodog wrote:I just don't buy the idea that all these emails needed to be passed to outside government computers for printing out. The SOS had the power and the budget to get them all printed on gov't printers, delivered to her anywhere on earth. It was a dumb unforced error.
My understanding is that it wasn't a problem with the actual printers, but rather a problem with the email network communicating with the printers. We have one printer here at the house that will only print from my husband's laptop about 50% of the time. No rhyme or reason why or when it will print, but when it doesn't, we have to turn the printer off and back on, and then it may print 5 copies. If the .gov email system was as horsey as reports indicate, I can easily understand trying to bypass the entire system for the sake of convenience.

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#222

Post by Lani » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:18 am

I think we are speculating about the emails to a great extent. We don't know if they involve Clinton at all. Huma emailed something to herself, pre or post Clinton as SOS? Who sent what where and when is currently unknown.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#223

Post by Slim Cognito » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:54 am

Mr. Gneiss wrote:
....Until I see proof otherwise, I'll take Ms. Abedin at her word. It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Weiner stole his wife's emails in an attempt to know what she is "up to" as the divorce proceedings continue. Just my WAG, nothing more.

...!
If I could add my $0.02 to that, just my observations of life.... sometimes people who are doing bad things suspect/assume an important person in their life is doing the same thing and are looking for ammunition. For example, I have an ex who was always trying to catch me doing things I wasn't doing. Then we found out that's exactly what HE was doing. And that's my WAG.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#224

Post by Reality Check » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:00 am

Slim Cognito wrote: If I could add my $0.02 to that, just my observations of life.... sometimes people who are doing bad things suspect/assume an important person in their life is doing the same thing and are looking for ammunition. For example, I have an ex who was always trying to catch me doing things I wasn't doing. Then we found out that's exactly what HE was doing. And that's my WAG.
I think you just gave a perfect description of Donald Trump. He keeps calling Hillary a criminal when in fact it is he who has been getting away with fraud for years.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#225

Post by Gnarly Goat » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:16 am

Epectitus wrote:My $0.02. If I am being redundant with other posts, I apologize for not having read the entire thread.

Context: I have held a TS/SCI clearance as a member of the US Armed Forces with personal custodial responsibility for nuclear weapons. So I have more than a passing familiarity with the real world handling of classified information. And I have also spent much of my career as an IT professional who was involved in implementing email systems at three of the largest corporations in America, giving me some insoght into the general technical competence of senior executives.

1. Between the private server emails voluntarily produced by Secretary Clinton (roughly 30,000) and those subsequently recovered through forensic and other means by the FBI (roughly 14,900), investigators identified a total of 110 that were classified. This is twenty-five one hundredths of one percent of the total emails recovered. This tells us that however "careless" anyone chooses to believe that Secretary Clinton and the State Department might have been, there was rather clearly a concerted effort to keep classified information off the server. Because there can be little doubt that as a general rule, more than 25 one hundredths of one percent of the Secretary of States business is classified.

2. No one has provided (or likely even performed) a comparable audit of the unclassified email systems of other sensitive government departments of the DoD. I would be willing to bet (and this is informed by personal experience) that a "failure rate" of 25 one hundredths of one percent would be typical. These are human systems run by humans. They will contain human mistakes.

3. With perhaps the exception of executives at technology companies like Microsoft, outside of the IT department senior executives simply do not have the technical chops to make decisions regarding systems architecture and infrastructure of the sort Secretary Clinton is being pilloried for. Anybody who imagines for a nanosecond that it was Clinton's idea to host her email on a personal server because she understood for a second what that even meant has probably been vacationing here in Colorado and smoking some of our primo legal bud. There can be little doubt that she took some very, very bad technical advice. And it is likely that the bad advice was generated by what I consider the Secretary's singe least endearing (even if completely understandable) characteristic; a desire for privacy driven by paranoia. There were probably better technical solutions to that problem, but she was still dependent on her geeks for advice, and they failed her more than she failed herself (or us).
Great summary but I would like to offer a slightly different point of view.

Like you, I also held a TS/SCI clearance and was briefed into several different programs during my time in the Navy which included custodial responsibility for nuclear weapons, nuclear power plants, and Communications Material Systems (CMS) aka cryptographic codes. I would say that a 0.025% failure rate in handling classified data would have been unacceptable and resulted in disciplinary action. I witnessed an officer receive a letter of caution for leaving a Tomahawk sealed authenticator on a wardroom table, a chief radioman go to Captain's Mast for failing to properly maintain a CMS inventory, and another crew member referred to a General Court Martial for revealing mission details.

With the exception of the last example, the mishandling wasn't malicious but just good people who brain dumped and did something stupid entirely within the confines of a submarine. Even the guy who was court martialed was "only" trying to impress a woman. However, they mishandled classified materials/info in their care and were held accountable for their actions.

Based on my training, experiences, and personal beliefs, I find this entire mail server affair inexcusable although I agree that it was motivated by one of her least endearing qualities. While HRC's staff let her down by failing to hold firm and implementing an approved solution within the existing government policies and standards, at the end of the day HRC is fully accountable for failing to safeguard the classified materials in her possession. Several years ago you wrote a brilliant post explaining why leaders are held to a higher standard - I completely agreed with you then and I see no reason why HRC shouldn't be held to a higher leadership standard.

IMO this entire affair has been a series of unforced errors which has unfortunately played on existing narratives and opinions about HRC and how she operates which has blown this to epic proportions.

To be perfectly clear, I voted for HRC a couple of weeks ago and last Friday's revelations wouldn't have changed by my vote. However, I happen to believe that leaders must be held to a higher standard and be accountable for their actions. I can't excuse this away.
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