Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#101

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Nonsense, Hercule. This episode shows that a very busy person doesn't have time to learn what most people know about computers. Just like she probably can no longer drive a car.

As for sending emails to her assistant's computer so the emails could be in paper form, I think all that demonstrates is that Mrs. Clinton didn't drag a printer around with her. That's not disqualifying nor does Mrs. Clinton deserve excoriation for it.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#102

Post by MsDaisy »

Karen Walker wrote: One potential scenario that has not been widely discussed... With all the rat-fucking Russia has done to date is it *that* unreasonable to consider Weiner was an easy target to compromise & hack his devices? Ignoring for a minute the Orange Menace's previous statement before the depth of the hackings were known publicly- maybe he slipped his inside info from his BFF Putin?
Anything is possible but it doesn’t make sense that Comey, as the supposedly “politically neutral” director of the FBI would make the “extremely careless” crack in the first place when he announced no evidence to support charges. Why would he do that? He was appointed by Obama and from what I see hasn’t been overtly right-wing. Now he goes off the partisan deep end against department policy with this bombshell 11 days before the election? There has to be a reason for him to do that. What if he’s being blackmailed? Not like that’s never happened before.

It did strike me as odd that someone who was raised Roman Catholic and a registered republican his entire life, until recently, would be a signatory to an amicus curiae brief in support of same sex marriage in Hollingsworth v. Perry in 2013, but according to his Wikipedia page he was. I’m pretty sure not many Roman Catholic Republicans would do that. Maybe he has a skeleton somewhere that came back to haunt him. :?

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#103

Post by Reality Check »

Sterngard Friegen wrote:Nonsense, Hercule. This episode shows that a very busy person doesn't have time to learn what most people know about computers. Just like she probably can no longer drive a car.

As for sending emails to her assistant's computer so the emails could be in paper form, I think all that demonstrates is that Mrs. Clinton didn't drag a printer around with her. That's not disqualifying nor does Mrs. Clinton deserve excoriation for it.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#104

Post by Dan1100 »

Sterngard Friegen wrote:Nonsense, Hercule. This episode shows that a very busy person doesn't have time to learn what most people know about computers. Just like she probably can no longer drive a car.

As for sending emails to her assistant's computer so the emails could be in paper form, I think all that demonstrates is that Mrs. Clinton didn't drag a printer around with her. That's not disqualifying nor does Mrs. Clinton deserve excoriation for it.
Exactly. It is not like computer incompetence is a rare thing among high ranking executive types.

She probably can't set the clock on her microwave and DVD player either.

edit: To quote my mother, "Why in God's name does the microwave need to know what time it is?"
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#105

Post by listeme »

Adding my thumbs up to RC's, re Stern's post.

P.S. I can't operate a TV remote control, myself. Too many buttons anymore.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#106

Post by esseff44 »

Hercule Parrot wrote:
RoadScholar wrote:Get a grip. Compare what she did (which apparently many other Cabinet members have done in the past) with the Bush-Cheney cabal. They completely ignored Congressional summonses, and deleted millions of emails. They outed the identity of a CIA agent to cover up the lies they were selling about why they had to go into Iraq. Just for starters.
Yes, very probably so. But that doesn't make HRC's own behaviour right. The shabbiest excuse anyone can make is to point to another and say "but he's doing worse". Speeding drivers say that the Police should be catching burglars, burglars say that the Police should be catching rapists, and the rapists say that the Police should be catching murderers. It's like excusing Abu Ghraib because ISIS are more cruel to their prisoners.

I don't think the email thing disqualifies HRC, and I don't doubt that she's by far the better candidate over Trump. But I refuse to wear rose-tinted glasses. This episode demonstrates an arrogant and dishonest aspect of her character.
I strongly disagree with your characterizations and do not think it demonstrates anything like you suggest. I think it was a mistake not to use completely separate accounts for personal communications and work communications. I don't blame her for using a private server that was already set up in her house. She did consult with IT people and apparently followed their advice. The State Department's set up was from all accounts not a very good set up and was proven not to be secure. This does not demonstrate arrogance. It demonstrates caution and practicality. Those are traits for which she is known and I for one appreciate. I do not blame her for not wanting to turn over her private e=mails to he sworn enemies to comb through. There is nothing dishonest about that. She had other people to protect as well. Any work related e-mails should have been preserved in the State Department's own system and would have been available to the IG and to the investigator's. She herself would have not have the capacity to destroy them. I would imagine that for most work e-mails that there were many people copied and that they also remained in the system. So, where's the problem?

Don't forget that the whole thing started with the Benghazi witch hunt. The GOP committee members were determined to boil her in oil one way or another.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#107

Post by tek »

Rudy, in NH, paraphrasing from his clip on teevee:

"I know James Comey well, he worked for me, he's an extremely honest person. So I can't see him writing this letter unless he's found something really damaging"

Rudy, go f'k yourself. You might need to use a paper bag to complete the task.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#108

Post by MsDaisy »

FBI Director James Comey Defied Attorney General With Email Announcement
Snip
Attorney General Loretta Lynch wanted Comey to follow DOJ protocols and traditions and not reveal the discovery of new emails that might be pertinent to Clinton’s case, The Huffington Post was able to confirm on Saturday, following the account of a Justice Department official in The Washington Post.

Snip
“My view is that there should be an investigation” into Comey’s behavior, she added. “Under the rules that he violated, that investigation should be secret. That’s the point.”

There are exceptions to this protocol under unusual circumstances, but Comey would have had to consult with a senior official at DOJ before doing so, according to Werner-Simon, who instructed federal prosecutors about these protocols as senior litigation counsel at DOJ, the last position she held there.

“Who gave him permission? If he is going to use unusual circumstances under the U.S. Attorneys’ Manual, who did he discuss it with?” Werner-Simon said.
More
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/com ... qjw21vpldi
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#109

Post by TollandRCR »

Sterngard Friegen wrote:Nonsense, Hercule. This episode shows that a very busy person doesn't have time to learn what most people know about computers. Just like she probably can no longer drive a car.

As for sending emails to her assistant's computer so the emails could be in paper form, I think all that demonstrates is that Mrs. Clinton didn't drag a printer around with her. That's not disqualifying nor does Mrs. Clinton deserve excoriation for it.
It is unclear to me that Hillary took the advice of State Department IT experts. She certainly should have done so.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#110

Post by Dan1100 »

TollandRCR wrote: It is unclear to me that Hillary took the advice of State Department IT experts. She certainly should have done so.
She obviously wasn't administering the server herself. It was a private server, so she obviously had hired some kind of IT consultant to manage it. Either this consultant or someone from their sales department no doubt had a financial interest in Hillary having a server.

This whole mess probably boils down to some semi-ethical IT salesperson selling yet another unneeded server to yet another clueless executive.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#111

Post by listeme »

I'm 1 degree of separation from anyone who worked on her server. If I understand the degrees of separation game, which I might not.

(It's a small pool of people and I was married to one of the people in the pool. I'm 1 degree from Petraeus, etc. If I understand the degrees.)

Eta: not claiming any knowledge here.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#112

Post by busterbunker »

I worked with a guy who went on to be the Internet director for HRC's 2008 campaign. So he claims on his website. He was really good at puffing himself up and making himself look smarter than he really was. That's a skill in itself - that's how you you get the job.

As I've watched this go down, I have a pretty good idea of those who were actually responsible. No offense to NYC cats, but they're consistently behind the curve in many areas of IT.

A more responsible IT person would take a much harder line with their client. They wouldn't be afraid to say "no, you can't do that," even if it were to imperil their contract.

You'll get a lot more work if you tell your client what they want to hear. Anyone can do it; it's boring. And dangerous in the long run.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#113

Post by bob »

Many see the server as a molehill. Those who see a mountain, or at least a large hill, are having their nuanced position drowned out by the "LOCK HER UP!" mob.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#114

Post by Kriselda Gray »

Hercule Parrot wrote: But regardless, what HRC did in this situation was an extremely bad judgement. All her communications in her official capacity are the property of the government, and were required by regulations to be conducted via official systems. It was a foolish and arrogant decision to declare herself exempt from that normal process. And her subsequent high-and-mighty attitude made the situation worse.
Perhaps she believed it was OK since both Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice had made use of similar non-official setups during their tenure as SoS and were never even chided for it, much less subjected to years of investigation. Granted, she probably shold have realised that since she's Hillary Clinton - who's likely to be investigated if one of her sneezes came out sounding like "Ah-chee!" instead of "Ah-choo!" - that *some* Republican would pitch a fit about it, even though they didn't give a damn when their own SoSes (oh, and their president & vice president using the RNC server in a similar way and loosing *millions* of e-mails) did essentially the same thing.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#115

Post by Kriselda Gray »

TollandRCR wrote:As the technical reasons for Secretary Clinton's use of a private server are stated, I become more amazed. Sending e-mails to the laptop that Huma shared with her husband so that they could be printed (is that right?) is more than slightly absurd. Even back when she was Secretary it was possible to buy and operate a printer in one's office or even at one's home. Why involve Huma and Weiner?
Here's how Kurt Eichenwald explains it at Newsweek:
The disclosure by the Federal Bureau of Investigation late on Friday, October 28 that it had discovered potential new evidence in its inquiry into Hillary Clinton’s handling of her personal email when she was Secretary of State has virtually nothing to do with any actions taken by the Democratic nominee, according to government records and an official with knowledge of the investigation, who spoke to Newsweek on condition of anonymity.

[...]

This new evidence relates to how Abedin managed her emails. She maintained four email accounts—an unclassified State Department account, another on the clintonemail.com domain and a third on Yahoo. The fourth was linked to her husband’s account; she used it to support his activities when he was running for Congress, investigative records show. Abedin, who did not know Clinton used a private server for her emails, told the bureau in an April interview that she used the account on the clintonemail.com domain only for issues related to the Secretary’s personal affairs, such as communicating with her friends. For work-related records, Abedin primarily used the email account provided to her by the State Department.

Because Clinton preferred to read documents on paper rather than on a screen, emails and other files were often printed out and provided to her either at her office or home, where they were delivered in a diplomatic pouch by a security agent. Abedin, like many State Department officials, found the government network technology to be cumbersome, and she had great trouble printing documents there, investigative records show. As a result, she sometimes transferred emails from her unclassified State Department account to either her Yahoo account or her account on Clinton’s server, and printed the emails from there. It is not clear whether she ever transferred official emails to the account she used for her husband’s campaign.

Abedin would use this procedure for printing documents when she received emails she believed Clinton needed to see and when the Secretary forwarded emails to her for printing. Abedin told the FBI she would often print these emails without reading them. Abedin printed a large number of emails this way, in part because, investigative records show, other staff members considered her Clinton’s “gatekeeper” and often sent Abedin electronic communications they wanted the Secretary to see.

This procedure for printing documents, the government official says, appears to be how the newly discovered emails ended up on the laptop shared by Abedin and her husband. It is unclear whether any of those documents were downloaded onto the laptop off of her personal email accounts or were saved on an external storage device, such as a flash drive, and then transferred to the shared computer. There is also evidence that the laptop was used to send emails from Abedin to Clinton; however, none of those emails are the ones being examined by the FBI. Moreover, unless she was told by Abedin in every instance, Clinton could not have known what device her aide was using to transmit electronic information to her.
More at: http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton ... din-514918
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#116

Post by esseff44 »

Dan1100 wrote:
TollandRCR wrote: It is unclear to me that Hillary took the advice of State Department IT experts. She certainly should have done so.
She obviously wasn't administering the server herself. It was a private server, so she obviously had hired some kind of IT consultant to manage it. Either this consultant or someone from their sales department no doubt had a financial interest in Hillary having a server.

This whole mess probably boils down to some semi-ethical IT salesperson selling yet another unneeded server to yet another clueless executive.
The server was already in place and in use when she was asked to be SoS. It had been used by her 2008 campaign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_C ... ontroversy
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#117

Post by Suranis »

Kriselda Gray wrote: that *some* Republican would pitch a fit about it, even though they didn't give a damn when their own SoSes (oh, and their president & vice president using the RNC server in a similar way and loosing *millions* of e-mails) did essentially the same thing.
Those emails were not lost, the server was programmed to delete emails after a month. And it wasn't the SOS, etc, it was the entire republican party.

Seriously, if people had said a year ago that the worst the GOP would have on Clinton was that she used an email server and SAVED ALL HER WORK EMAILS so they could be handed over when requested, you would all have laughed at how pathetic it was.

The Press made a mountain out of fuck all. Yeah, she broke internal rules without asking permission, but there was nothing illegal here. Hell holy Colin Powell was proven to have lied his ass off about when he met Clinton to give advice over email practices, but no-one talks about that

Put this in perspective. This is a minor scandal blown up by an unethical FBI head who needs to be fired for interfering in an election like this.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

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Post by Plutodog »

He would be but he'd then become a martyr to the Drumpf Corps. But his future is toast.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#119

Post by Fortinbras »

Quite right. If this is the worst that the Republicans/Trump can come up with, even with the latest little blip, compared with all the Trump crookedness, the choice is obvious, at least to me.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#120

Post by TollandRCR »

It is odd that Hillary's personal assistant, Huma, was not aware of the private server. It makes a bit more sense knowing that the server was there before she became Secretary. I presume that it was in her Washington home, not her Chappaqua home.

I wonder if the State Department network could be accessed remotely. Many government agencies don't have much connection to the Internet -- a very wise precaution. Without remote access, how was the private server connected to anything?

I don't think that this will change the results of the election. Hillary will win. Unfortunately, she may not pound Trump into the sand. I was hoping for that. I would prefer that nobody ever give serious consideration to a single word that he says, unless he is ordering another cheeseburger. He can't eat too many cheeseburgers, IMHO.
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#121

Post by Karen Walker »

tek wrote:Rudy, in NH, paraphrasing from his clip on teevee:

"I know James Comey well, he worked for me, he's an extremely honest person. So I can't see him writing this letter unless he's found something really damaging"

Rudy, go f'k yourself. You might need to use a paper bag to complete the task.
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani blasted FBI Director James Comey saying, “it’s mind boggling what he did here,” regarding his decision that no charges be brought against former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for using a private email system during an appearance on Fox Business Network’s “Mornings with Maria.”

Giuliani was deeply concerned and puzzled by Comey’s decision, especially the way the FBI director manipulated statutes covering the handling of national security information. “The director of the FBI made a really wrong decision, completely incorrect, and gave people a completely wrong impression of how you prove intent. And then ignored the two statutes that don’t require intent and gave no explanation of why there would be no indictment on those statutes.”
:snippity:
By making this decision Giuliani feels, “James Comey somehow has put himself and Mrs. Clinton above the law.”
:snippity:
According to Giuliani, the FBI interview “was just for television, for show.”

Giuliani concluded, “...the failure to indict her under the two, let's call them non-intent statutes, is a total outrage. He laid out a case that a first-year prosecutor could prove in court.”
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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#122

Post by Foggy »

Why are James Comey and Vladimir Putin working together to help elect a narcissistic sociopathic crook? Is it kosher for the Director of the FBI to join a former KGB thug in a blatant attempt to disrupt a free and fair election because they don't like the projected winner?

Comey appears to be a great Russian patriot.


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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#123

Post by RTH10260 »

Hannity is having an orgasm:

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#124

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Re: Hillary Clinton's e-mail /Debunking the lies

#125

Post by Chilidog »

p0rtia wrote:
listeme wrote:
TollandRCR wrote:Why would Hillary's assistant Huma have been sending classified e-mails to her husband? It makes no sense in any world in which Huma is assumed to be competent. So I suspect this is all a red herring.
She wasn't.

Her account wasn't for classified communications.
Also too, I'm hearing that Huma used the computer to send/receive emails. So it's not an issue of emails to/from AW from Huma, it's emails to/from Huma and whoever.

To and from herself.

If you want to print something at home, that's generally how you do it.
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