Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

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realist
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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#226

Post by realist »



From the same article (which is great, by the way)...ConclusionWhile traditional adherence to quaint philosophic concepts might make it appear that the evidence overwhelmingly favors the conclusion that Barack Obama is a United States citizen, it is clear that this cannot be the case so long as we don’t pay any attention to the idea that there is an objective reality.Cognitive Realism, the Law of Attraction, and Norse Mythology all provide plausible philosophic justification for ignoring evidence and logic. Accordingly, because Obama’s claim to American citizenship is only supported by evidence and logic, he must not be an American citizen. Thus, Barack Obama is not eligible to be President of the United States.It’s perfectly logical.Our mistake has been to try to understand birthers from a logical viewpoint...the real answers were right before us, we just could not grasp them. Boy, do I feel stoooopid now.
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elliewyatt
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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#227

Post by elliewyatt »



I don't think he can claim he found the "Pakistan travel ban" on the Intarwebz. I think Phil was the one who ORIGINATED it. OK, actually it was world-renowned paralegal/researcher Lisa Liberi.Actually, the lie was concocted by Janet Porter of Faith2Action on WorldNetDaily.



[linkbtn]Dr Conspracy's account,http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/ ... -passport/[/linkbtn]



So, Berg or his assistant did find it on the webnuttubes.I don't agree with Dr. C's conclusion that Janet Porter originated the story. Janet Porter's article was posted November 2008.



Many months ago, I traced the origins of this as far as I could. As far back as I could find, was a single blog reader's comment made, copied and pasted to at least a dozen blog sites by a single person in one day. It looked like a plant to me, much like the "Muslim" story.



Without bothering to search for the original again now, this one is similar enough that it was evidently taken from the original. This was posted in MAY 2008, about two weeks after Obama's reference to the trip and six months before Porter.



It all sounds very innocent, "a college trip to Pakistan".



Pakistan was in turmoil in 1981 and ruled of martial law. Millions of Afghan refugees were living in Pakistan, while the Afghan Mujahedeen operated from bases inside Pakistan in their war with the Soviets. One of the leaders that based his operation in Quetta, Pakistan was Usama Bin Laden (The Sheik).



Pakistan was on the banned travel list for US Citizens at the time and all non-Muslim visitors were not welcome unless sponsored by their embassy for official business.



The would be only a few reasons a young Westerner of the Muslim faith would travel to Pakistan in 1981:



To Participate in Jihad, which is the duty of every "True Believer".



For religious education in a Wahabbi sect, Saudi funded, Madrassa.



In order to purchase drugs from the drug marketplace.



Pakistan was not a tourist stop nor the place to hang out with someone's family in 1981.



Posted by: Rob | May 3, 2008 2:13:43 AM



The original mentioned travel ban, gun smuggling, drugs and Jihad, but not Madrassa.



The gun smuggling, drugs and Jihad didn't 'stick', but the "travel ban" did.



I don't think this came originally from Porter.

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Butterfly Bilderberg
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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#228

Post by Butterfly Bilderberg »



Posted by: Rob | May 3, 2008 2:13:43 AMCould that be Rob Lamb??????????????? As in, Ed's pigpen Rob? As in, Orly's Rob?
"Pity the nation that acclaims the bully as hero,
and that deems the glittering conqueror bountiful."
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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#229

Post by Addie »



I agree. I thought I remembered in the Spring of 2008 it was posted on DU..I don't think this came originally from Porter.Edit: typo
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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#230

Post by Paul Pieniezny »



I don't think he can claim he found the "Pakistan travel ban" on the Intarwebz. I think Phil was the one who ORIGINATED it. OK, actually it was world-renowned paralegal/researcher Lisa Liberi.Actually, the lie was concocted by Janet Porter of Faith2Action on WorldNetDaily.[linkbtn]Dr Conspracy's account,http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/ ... -passport/[/linkbtn]So, Berg or his assistant did find it on the webnuttubes.I don't agree with Dr. C's conclusion that Janet Porter originated the story. Janet Porter's article was posted November 2008.Many months ago, I traced the origins of this as far as I could. As far back as I could find, was a single blog reader's comment made, copied and pasted to at least a dozen blog sites by a single person in one day. It looked like a plant to me, much like the "Muslim" story.Without bothering to search for the original again now, this one is similar enough that it was evidently taken from the original. This was posted in MAY 2008, about two weeks after Obama's reference to the trip and six months before Porter....The original mentioned travel ban, gun smuggling, drugs and Jihad, but not Madrassa.The gun smuggling, drugs and Jihad didn't 'stick', but the "travel ban" did.I don't think this came originally from Porter.To be fair on the Doc, he never really said Porter invented it. His account seems to confine itself to people who dared to put their name under their lies. Unlike that lying sack of shit, Polarik. Porter made it "official" - if you give any credence to WingNutDaily, of course.Doc also has Linda Starr pushing it, and not Lisa Liberi. I was never an habitué of ObamaCrimes, so I do not know whether he is right there.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#231

Post by elliewyatt »



To be fair on the Doc, he never really said Porter invented it. His account seems to confine itself to people who dared to put their name under their lies. Unlike that lying sack of shit, Polarik. Porter made it "official" - if you give any credence to WingNutDaily, of course.Doc also has Linda Starr pushing it, and not Lisa Liberi. I was never an habitué of ObamaCrimes, so I do not know whether he is right there.Yes, Doc C's article is a bit unclear. Porter was one to push it and WND, but just for the sake of history, I wanted to note what I'd found.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#232

Post by Loren »



I don't agree with Dr. C's conclusion that Janet Porter originated the story. Janet Porter's article was posted November 2008.Many months ago, I traced the origins of this as far as I could. As far back as I could find, was a single blog reader's comment made, copied and pasted to at least a dozen blog sites by a single person in one day. It looked like a plant to me, much like the "Muslim" story.Without bothering to search for the original again now, this one is similar enough that it was evidently taken from the original. This was posted in MAY 2008, about two weeks after Obama's reference to the trip and six months before Porter.I was tracing the travel ban last night (so all my research is at home), and I also found a singular example from May 2008, but May 3 beats me. I think mine was May 15, but the text appears to have been copied.The travel ban also got brief mention from both TexasDarlin and Pam Gellar (of AtlasShrugs) in July and August 2008, and it had gotten enough exposure to have to be rebutted by What's Your Evidence in October.Still, as was pointed out, Janet Porter put it in a 'news' story, which then allowed folks to cite a source allegedly more authoritative than a blog post.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#233

Post by Addie »



I was at this yesterday, too, Loren.On [/break1]abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obamas-college.html]May 3, 2008 somebody named "Rob" revisited Jake Tapper's April 8 piece, the one following up on Obama's 1981 trip to Pakistan, and added to the earlier comments in the thread:It all sounds very innocent, "a college trip to Pakistan".Pakistan was in turmoil in 1981 and ruled of martial law. Millions of Afghan refugees were living in Pakistan, while the Afghan Mujahedeen operated from bases inside Pakistan in their war with the Soviets. One of the leaders that based his operation in Quetta, Pakistan was Usama Bin Laden (The Sheik).Pakistan was on the banned travel list for US Citizens at the time and all non-Muslim visitors were not welcome unless sponsored by their embassy for official business.-snipPosted by: Rob | May 3, 2008 2:13:43 AMThe next thing I saw was [/break1]spaces.live.com/blog/cns!EBAB74DA8F94C559!5351.entry]May 15, 2008 on something called "Daily Musings"NOW, It all sounds very innocent, "a college trip to Pakistan".Pakistan was in turmoil in 1981 and ruled of martial law. Millions of Afghan refugees were living in Pakistan, while the Afghan Mujahedeen operated from bases inside Pakistan in their war with the Soviets. One of the leaders that based his operation in Quetta, Pakistan was Usama Bin Laden (The Sheik).Pakistan was on the banned travel list for US Citizens at the time and all non-Muslim visitors were not welcome unless sponsored by their embassy for official business.In [/break1]yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=120283]August 2008 American Patriot Friends Network sent out an email that said all sorts of stuff, but included this:Like Barack Obama's 1981 'innocent' visit with a college friend and his family in Pakistan, when Pakistan was on the banned travel list for all US Citizens at the time, as non-Muslim visitors were not welcome unless sponsored by their embassy for official business?-snipBut, any 3rd grader should know 'WHY' (more IMPORTANT than Who, What, or Where to SMART JOURNALISTS) a young Westerner would travel to Pakistan, a country banned from U.S. Citizen travel in 1981:1. To participate in a Jihad, which is the duty of every 'True Believer' of Islam.2. For religious education in a Wahabbi sect, by a Saudi funded, Islamic 'Madrassa' School.That email was posted in very many places in the Summer and Fall 2008, such as [/break1]jihadwatch.org/archives/022524.php]Jihad Watch, but I didn't note them all.And on [/break1]ornery.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=012241;p=0]October 5, 2008, on the Ornery American, the May 3, 2008 comment from Tapper’s original piece on April 8, 2008, was posted.And [/break1]com/archive/why-so-many-201-obama-donations]November 20, 2008 posted on Sweetness & Light. From what I saw, Godlike Productions Forum picked it up again in [/break1]godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message798966/pg1]May 2009.[/break1]craigslist.org/pol/1265554158.html]July 11, 2009, Craig’s List Houston.[/break1]newsvine.com/_news/2009/07/23/3057966-birthers-new-burst-of-attention-for-old-doubts?commentId=8396126]July 24, 2009, Newsvine comments.From what I saw, there's two or three basic versions, but they're repeated everywhere, mostly in comment sections.
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LM K
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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#234

Post by LM K »



Basically there's a number of people that have come out and said that he was born in Kenya. There's some questionable documentation showing that he was born in Hawaii. Documentation that could have been forged. It's a simple question to clear up yet it is ignored.Jeff, would you answer the question I asked before? Trying to look at the situation objectively, would you say that the evidence that he was born in Kenya is stronger than the evidence that he was born in Hawaii?No I wouldn't say that the evidence that he was born in Kenya is stronger than in Hawaii. I really look at it like the magic analogy I gave you. The trick is never behind what is obvious. It's behind the area that most wouldn't think to look.As for those asking why Kenya and not somewhere else? Simply because there's a number of people from Kenya that have come out and said he was born there, namely his grandmother and some state official on a radio show.Hi Jeff,So, have you listened to the 5 min interview with Sarah Obama or the one that is over 10 min long? Berg cut Sarah Obama's statement.Who else are you referring to that stated Obama was born in Kenya? And why would you believe some random folks in Kenya whom have provided NO evidence and yet not believe the state of Hawaii, the official BC, the hospital birth announcements in 2 different newspapers, the lady who stopped forward and stated that she was in the hospital with Stanley Ann on Aug 4th, giving birth to twins? The woman was in labor and delivery with Stanley Ann!!!My perception is that you are believing folks who won't reveal their real names and yet claim to be "experts". But you refuse to believe people whom, in their official capacity, have stated blatantly that Obama was born in Hawaii. You refuse to believe that the majority of US citizens believe Obama is eligible to be POTUS. You refuse to believe the electoral college and Congress believe Obama to be a NBC. You refuse to believe McCain, Hillary Clinton, Pelosi, the gov of Hawaii and the representatives for the DOH of Hawaii.Jeff, I could get a couple people to say you were on the moon. I could state that your BC is fraudulent. I could state that your birth announcements were planted. I could say that your father isn't your father. Would you give me the time of day? How would you prove you were not born on the moon? All I need to do is say that your BC is wrong and say that I feel I am right...but I wouldn't be.
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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#235

Post by LM K »



Deleted comment to Don...didn't know he wasn't returning until I read further along the thread.
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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#236

Post by Justin »



There's a simple explanation for no birthers even ATTEMPTING to see the document... an anonymous guy on the Internet told them it didn't exist, so obviously, it didn't make sense to go see the ... hologram? Edit: I bet if they paid an extra $2 at the door though, they'd be handed the special glasses that let you see it for real.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#237

Post by Patricia »



At this point, they are truly losing all connection with reality. It's so sad to watch people surrendering their better judgment to their wishful thinking. How did they get ensnared in this? Is it possible that all of them had a pre-existing thinking problem? I have yet to encounter one of them online who doesn't exhibit an inability to process new information or think critically about things they accepted merely because someone said them.I wonder if some psychological approach to them might work -- some approach that doesn't directly restate the facts that are counter to their allegations, but some approach that offers them a parallel situation in which they might be able to see that, for example, they would never just believe that a giant 24-ft.-tall spider landed in downtown Atlanta, but there's little difference between that and believing that Obama was born in Kenya.Just thinking out loud. To watch these people descend into what can only end (it seems) in madness is astonishing painful to me. Maybe I overdramatize, maybe not.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#238

Post by LM K »



Deleted comment to Don...didn't know he wasn't returning until I read further along the thread.
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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#239

Post by Patricia »



Don said: "Berg was offered a trip, from a PJ member. That does not count. Besides, if what you are saying is true, then tell me why has NONE of his attorneys ever say that it was open for inspection. They all manage to leave that tid bit out."---------Their function is only to represent him; they're not responsible for reminding you or anyone else of things that were widely known or explaining anything to you. They say the minimum necessary to deal with the issue involved in defending their client. That's why. You should be asking Nancy Pelosi why she swore to the states he was eligible. If you're a Democrat, that should be easy.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#240

Post by Youtube-said-so »



Has anyone picked up on this?



Date: March 02, 1981



Aircraft Type: Boeing 720-030B



Registration: AP-AZP



Crew: 9 on board (Complete list of crew is at the bottom of this page)



Passengers: 132 on board



Number of hijackers: 3



Total on board: 144



Victims: 1 passenger



Flight: Karachi - Peshawar



Flight number: PK-326



Description: On March 2, 1981, Pakistan International's flight PK-326 began as a routine domestic hop from Karachi to Peshawar . In midair three heavily armed men seized the plane, diverted it to Kabul, Afghanistan, and demanded the release of 92 "political prisoners" from the Pakistani jails. On March 7, twenty nine hostages including women, children and sick men were released in Kabul. The Boeing 720B sat in Kabul for a week, and when Pakistan's President Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq refused to give in, the hijackers shot a Pakistani diplomat Tariq Rahim in full view of the other passengers and dumped his body onto the tarmac.



Next, on March 9, the plane flew to Damascus, Syria, and by the time ordeal ended there on March 14, more than 100 hostages had endured 13 days of tension and squalor. At that time it was the longest hijacking episode in the history.



The gunmen repeatedly threatened to blow up the plane, but were talked into long extensions while negotiations continued by radio with Pakistani and Syrian officials in the Damascus control tower. Finally the hijackers said they would settle for just 55 prisoners - but they coupled the concession with a grim warning: they would soon kill the three Americans on board. "Be ready to pick up the bodies," they told the tower. Just twenty minutes before the deadline President Zia gave in, ordering that the prisoners be flown to sanctuary in Libya. "It's over," said Pakistani negotiator Sarfraz Khan.Ep mine



http://www.historyofpia.com/hijackings.htm



1981 three Americans flying on a domestic flight in Pakistan.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#241

Post by Res Ipsa »



What's the over/under on Jeff returning to this thread to provide the "information to back up" his opinion?
Thanks pal.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#242

Post by June bug »



At this point, they are truly losing all connection with reality. It's so sad to watch people surrendering their better judgment to their wishful thinking. How did they get ensnared in this? Is it possible that all of them had a pre-existing thinking problem? I have yet to encounter one of them online who doesn't exhibit an inability to process new information or think critically about things they accepted merely because someone said them.I wonder if some psychological approach to them might work -- some approach that doesn't directly restate the facts that are counter to their allegations, but some approach that offers them a parallel situation in which they might be able to see that, for example, they would never just believe that a giant 24-ft.-tall spider landed in downtown Atlanta, but there's little difference between that and believing that Obama was born in Kenya.Just thinking out loud. To watch these people descend into what can only end (it seems) in madness is astonishing painful to me. Maybe I overdramatize, maybe not.Patricia, may I please tell you how much I admire you? Your posts are thoughtful and well-reasoned even when I disagree with you (which is most of the time. politically at least!). Most unfortunately, I'm very much afraid that you're right. These folks do have a "pre-existing thinking problem". I hate to generalize and I realize it may not be true for everyone, (and I believe Jeff may be one of the exceptions even if also incorrect in his beliefs) but I really believe most of them truly cannot accept the idea that their ideology is no longer in charge and that a black man has become president. I also suspect many of the people who really hew to birtherdom are bitter and unhappy in their own lives and need to find something outside of themselves to blame.It's a very sad thing and I understand your pain.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#243

Post by Patricia »



He hasn't yet acknowledged that it makes sense to look at information before forming an opinion.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#244

Post by Jeff »



I've been away for a while so have lost touch with this conversation. I did come across some proposed bumper stickers that I thought some of you might like through. =D>
bumper.JPG

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#245

Post by jsnbase »



Not that your belief in his ineligibility is politically motivated, right Jeff?

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#246

Post by neonzx »



I've been away for a while so have lost touch with this conversation. I did come across some proposed bumper stickers that I thought some of you might like through. =D>That's fun! But what does it have to do with the "eligibility" issue? :?
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#247

Post by Jeff »



Not that your belief in his ineligibility is politically motivated, right Jeff?Not at all. I just have the luck of having my political views aligned properly with my sense of right vs. wrong.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#248

Post by jsnbase »



Not that your belief in his ineligibility is politically motivated, right Jeff?Not at all. I just have the luck of having my political views aligned properly with my sense of right vs. wrong.That is lucky. Now all you need is to properly align your sense of right vs. wrong with your ability to evaluate evidence and think critically and you're good to go.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#249

Post by PatGund »



And those bumper stickers have to do with eligibility why??Oh, and BTW, there are quite a few gun owners who support Obama. Myself included.

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Why birthers think Obama is ineligible

#250

Post by mimi »



That first bumper sticker reminds me of Billionaires for Bush. You know... thanking all those who work so that they can keep their tax loopholes and remain rich. Fun group.

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