The Post and Email

User avatar
realist
Posts: 34170
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:33 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9601

Post by realist » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:46 pm

 ! Message from: realist
Juat a quick reminder that, while we all have various opinions about birthers, including Brian, he is a member in good standing here and I would urge you all to please take care in your choice of words in questioning/criticism/responding to him here on the board.
Thanks in advance.

Carry on. :)


ImageX 4 (have met 36 Obots at meetups) Image X 4
Image

Brian Reilly
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:11 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9602

Post by Brian Reilly » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:50 pm

bob wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:58 pm
Mike Dunford wrote:Finally, I'm curious as to what measures, if any, he's taken to make amends for the real harm that his dive into baseless conspiracy theories caused to real people.
I didn't see Reilly's response to this part. :think:
I won't apologize for asking questions and getting answers to my questions. I have tried to expose the lunacy that resulted from the so called investigation and the people promoting that lunacy. If anything, hopefully the people promoting the lunacy have been exposed. I know Arpaio and Zullo have been exposed.



User avatar
bob
Posts: 22723
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:22 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9603

Post by bob » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:56 pm

Brian Reilly wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:50 pm
I won't apologize for asking questions and getting answers to my questions.
So you are not taking responsibility for the harm caused.

Noted.


Imagex5
Imagex2 Imagex3 Imagex2

User avatar
Mikedunford
Posts: 8384
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9604

Post by Mikedunford » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:57 pm

Brian Reilly wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:50 pm
bob wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:58 pm
Mike Dunford wrote:Finally, I'm curious as to what measures, if any, he's taken to make amends for the real harm that his dive into baseless conspiracy theories caused to real people.
I didn't see Reilly's response to this part. :think:
I won't apologize for asking questions and getting answers to my questions. I have tried to expose the lunacy that resulted from the so called investigation and the people promoting that lunacy. If anything, hopefully the people promoting the lunacy have been exposed. I know Arpaio and Zullo have been exposed.
For clarity: you will not apologize for impugning the life's work of a dedicated public servant, despite the fact that your decision to launch the assault on him was based on your admittedly incompetent assessment of a digital document?

Also for clarity: You are one who launched the lunacy in the first place. You get no brownie points for "exposing" the people who "promoted" the lunacy that you launched unless you do your fair share of cleaning up your mess.


I believe that each era finds a improvement in law each year brings something new for the benefit of mankind.

--Clarence Earl Gideon

User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 41872
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Trump International - Malibu

Re: The Post and Email

#9605

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:13 pm

"Just asking questions" is what we all heard a lot in 2012. Asking questions of the black guy, like "where are your papers, boy?"
Edit: ETA: "These papers? From Hawai'i? They aren't good enough. Our fake experts have found problems with them. So where are your real papers, boy?"



Brian Reilly
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:11 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9606

Post by Brian Reilly » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 pm

Mikedunford wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:31 pm
bob wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:58 pm
Mike Dunford wrote:Finally, I'm curious as to what measures, if any, he's taken to make amends for the real harm that his dive into baseless conspiracy theories caused to real people.
I didn't see Reilly's response to this part. :think:
Nor did I; apparently, a more direct explanation may be required.

Brian:

You understand, do you not, that when you took your request to Arpaio, you were suggesting that Dr. Alvin Onaka was complicit in a fraud on the American people. You, personally, saw fit to impugn his integrity. And you literally chose to impugn his integrity as it relates to the area of his life's work. And you did so on the basis of your own analysis of a pdf - something you had no knowledge about or experience in, and predictably enough performed with utter incompetence. You then took your accusations to Joe Arpaio, a man who already had an international reputation for using his office to target political opponents.* The result, as you well know, was a press conference that was covered in the international media, in which Onaka's work was further impugned by Arpaio.

We know how much that troubled you - because it was after that point, was it not, that you accepted the badge, car, and gas card?

How do you think that made Dr. Onaka feel? Particularly when Joe Arpaio - a man you personally asked to conduct the investigation despite the fact that he was already well-known for using the power of his office against political opponents at the time you went to him - went on to make public accusations which achieved national press coverage? I can assure you, Dr. Onaka was not ignorant of the accusations that were made. I strongly suspect that he was hurt by the implication that he would perpetuate a fraud at all, let alone in an area in which he had invested so many years - decades - of his life.

Dr. Onaka is not the only person that was harmed by the downslope effects of the little snowball that you decided to start rolling. But he's as good a place to start as any.


*Literally an international reputation; I've been asked about his rounding up of reporters and county officials by foreign attorneys I've had drinks with, in bars in other countries. This is why I, while acknowledging Orlylicious' point about Joe's role, hold Reilly equally culpable.
We moved to Arizona a year before I asked Arpaio to conduct the investigation. As a Conservative Republican, I believed all of Arpaio's campaign marketing newsletters. I read about Republican presidential candidates who sought Arpaio's endorsement. How could all the of these prominent Republicans be wrong, so wrong about Arpaio? How could he have a dark side? Through this request and the experiences that I've gone through because of the investigation request, I saw a side of Arpaio that truly concerned me. Randy Murray, the producer of "The Joe Show," film documentary once invited my wife Denise and I to a private screening of "The Joe Show" at his studio, in Phoenix, based on a letter my wife wrote to Randy. We met his wife Theresa and his staff. We then went out to promote his film in Arizona. Randy Murray told us that Arpaio is one of the most evil politicians he's ever met. Murray, surprisingly went on to say that he liked Arpaio, who indeed is a very likable person. I won't apologize for Arpaio's or Zullo's antics. I had no control where they took my idea. Eventually, I began to expose what was happening with this project. One of the very best compliments I have ever received about our efforts came from former Phoenix New Times reporter, Stephen Lemons, who told me at an Arpaio federal civil contempt court hearing that what I and my wife have done regarding exposing Joe Arpaio was "courageous." I was humbled. I respect Stephen Lemons and the work he has done to expose Arpaio. I thought exposing the truth was simply the right thing to do. And by the way, I've tried to communicate with the Hawaii Department of Health, to no avail. Think what you may of me, you have no idea what I and my wife have contributed to the legal effort to expose Arpaio's actions. I won't go into specifics.



User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 14540
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Re: The Post and Email

#9607

Post by Suranis » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:32 pm

People have good and bad sides.

Except me, of course. :mrgreen:

I watched one of Arpiao's speeches once to a friendly crowd, and he was extremely funny, and charming. I can see why people liked him.

I'm sure the Birther thing was just one of a long list of cons he had on the go, and money was his reason. I think he locked up Hispanics because it got money and votes, not because he was racist per se. If there was money in it he would have been dangling whites upside down over a slow fire. It's Joe vs the world.


"The devil...the prowde spirite...cannot endure to be mocked.” - Thomas Moore

User avatar
Mikedunford
Posts: 8384
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9608

Post by Mikedunford » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:52 pm

Brian Reilly wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 pm
Mikedunford wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:31 pm
Brian:

You understand, do you not, that when you took your request to Arpaio, you were suggesting that Dr. Alvin Onaka was complicit in a fraud on the American people. You, personally, saw fit to impugn his integrity. And you literally chose to impugn his integrity as it relates to the area of his life's work. And you did so on the basis of your own analysis of a pdf - something you had no knowledge about or experience in, and predictably enough performed with utter incompetence. You then took your accusations to Joe Arpaio, a man who already had an international reputation for using his office to target political opponents.* The result, as you well know, was a press conference that was covered in the international media, in which Onaka's work was further impugned by Arpaio.

We know how much that troubled you - because it was after that point, was it not, that you accepted the badge, car, and gas card?

How do you think that made Dr. Onaka feel? Particularly when Joe Arpaio - a man you personally asked to conduct the investigation despite the fact that he was already well-known for using the power of his office against political opponents at the time you went to him - went on to make public accusations which achieved national press coverage? I can assure you, Dr. Onaka was not ignorant of the accusations that were made. I strongly suspect that he was hurt by the implication that he would perpetuate a fraud at all, let alone in an area in which he had invested so many years - decades - of his life.

Dr. Onaka is not the only person that was harmed by the downslope effects of the little snowball that you decided to start rolling. But he's as good a place to start as any.


*Literally an international reputation; I've been asked about his rounding up of reporters and county officials by foreign attorneys I've had drinks with, in bars in other countries. This is why I, while acknowledging Orlylicious' point about Joe's role, hold Reilly equally culpable.
We moved to Arizona a year before I asked Arpaio to conduct the investigation. As a Conservative Republican, I believed all of Arpaio's campaign marketing newsletters. I read about Republican presidential candidates who sought Arpaio's endorsement. How could all the of these prominent Republicans be wrong, so wrong about Arpaio? How could he have a dark side? Through this request and the experiences that I've gone through because of the investigation request, I saw a side of Arpaio that truly concerned me. Randy Murray, the producer of "The Joe Show," film documentary once invited my wife Denise and I to a private screening of "The Joe Show" at his studio, in Phoenix, based on a letter my wife wrote to Randy. We met his wife Theresa and his staff. We then went out to promote his film in Arizona. Randy Murray told us that Arpaio is one of the most evil politicians he's ever met. Murray, surprisingly went on to say that he liked Arpaio, who indeed is a very likable person. I won't apologize for Arpaio's or Zullo's antics. I had no control where they took my idea. Eventually, I began to expose what was happening with this project. One of the very best compliments I have ever received about our efforts came from former Phoenix New Times reporter, Stephen Lemons, who told me at an Arpaio federal civil contempt court hearing that what I and my wife have done regarding exposing Joe Arpaio was "courageous." I was humbled. I respect Stephen Lemons and the work he has done to expose Arpaio. I thought exposing the truth was simply the right thing to do. And by the way, I've tried to communicate with the Hawaii Department of Health, to no avail. Think what you may of me, you have no idea what I and my wife have contributed to the legal effort to expose Arpaio's actions. I won't go into specifics.
It speaks volumes that you cannot seem to even bring yourself to write Dr. Onaka's name. He's not "the Hawaii Department of Health;" he's a man who has spent literally his entire career working with vital records. He's someone who takes considerable pride in his work, someone who has received widespread recognition for his efforts to develop the field. And he's the man whose integrity you were questioning when you decided, based on your uninformed and incompetent efforts to analyze a pdf, that there were "serious questions" about the veracity of a document that had been issued by his office. Unless your attempt to communicate with the Hawaii Department of Health began with a sincere apology to Dr. Onaka that displayed genuine contrition for your role in creating the unjust attacks on his character, I'm not at all surprised that they decided not to respond. Why should they?

You were the Dr. Frankenstein to the Arpaio-Zullo investigation. You tightened the screws. You pulled the lever. You applied the lightning. All that terrible shit that happened to the village? That's on you. You own it. It was your fuck-up that led to the out-of-control monster's rampage. You don't get to disclaim responsibility for the things that the monster you created did.

Slarti stood up for your integrity earlier. Having been given an opportunity to prove him right, you seem to be doing your level best to undercut him. Courage and integrity require a willingness to stand up straight, say "I fucked up," and make amends. Nobody, and particularly not me, manages to pull that off all the time, but I'm not even seeing an effort at it here. All I'm seeing are self-serving attempts to explain why you aren't personally responsible for the things that happened as a result of your efforts - efforts which were, at absolute best, thoughtless.


I believe that each era finds a improvement in law each year brings something new for the benefit of mankind.

--Clarence Earl Gideon

User avatar
Foggy
Posts: 25010
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Fogbow HQ
Occupation: Dick Tater

Re: The Post and Email

#9609

Post by Foggy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:28 am

IMPORTANCE OF THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT TODAY

There isn't any.

Brian Reilly was a birther back in 2011. He's one of only two birthers I ever ran across who changed their minds and gave up on birtherism. I forgive him, and the whole thing happened many years ago, and I am trusting my mods to read and monitor this thread, because I am not going to waste another 5 minutes of my life writing about birthers or birtherism. It's OVER, IMHO.

I have skimmed some of the above, but I'm not going to read it and I'm not going to offer any opinions and I have better things to do with my time than to rehash a movement that, for all practical purposes, died in 2013.

My country is facing several immediate crises, and that's my focus here. None of them involve whether President Obama is a natural born citizen.

Thanks, I'm out. :wave:


... and how does that make you feel?
What is it you're trying to say?
:think:

Brian Reilly
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:11 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9610

Post by Brian Reilly » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:54 am

Mike Dunford
"I'm not even seeing an effort at it here. All I'm seeing are self-serving attempts to explain why you aren't personally responsible for the things that happened as a result of your efforts - efforts which were, at absolute best, thoughtless."

Brian Reilly
I respectfully disagree with your assessment. My effort exposed Arpaio and the operation for what it was, a sham investigation. I asked a question and I got my answer. Thanks for your comment.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=me ... &FORM=VIRE



User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 14540
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Re: The Post and Email

#9611

Post by Suranis » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:00 am

Foggy wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:28 am
My country is facing several immediate crises, and that's my focus here. None of them involve whether President Obama is a natural born citizen.

Thanks, I'm out. :wave:
Sorry Foggy, but you have to agree that Barack Obama is ineligible for the Presidency! :boxing:

(Because, with the Birthers help, he served 2 terms! :dance: )


"The devil...the prowde spirite...cannot endure to be mocked.” - Thomas Moore

Brian Reilly
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:11 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9612

Post by Brian Reilly » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:05 am

Orlylicious wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:16 pm
While I agree about Mike's question about the harm caused, and hope Brian can explain, Joe Arpaio is the responsible party. If he hadn't been wanting to milk birthers for cash (which he admitted was a motivation) Zullo and Co. wouldn't have gotten anywhere. I admire that Brian's coming forward and discussing it, as well as expressing regret for how out of control it got. Here's Arpaio in his own words from "The Joe Show". Have you seen this clip Brian? Seems like he was just using you all.


Orlylicious, Yes, Denise and I watched the entire "The Joe Show" film at Randy Murray's production studio in downtown Phoenix. We worked with Randy to spread the word about the film to encourage Tea Party members and the general public to view the film. (I didn't know we were in the Church on the Green segment of the film.) Yes, Joe was always campaigning for cash. In 2012, as I recall, the immigration issue and the birth certificate issue brought in approximately $8.2 million in donations to Joe's campaign according to county election records. Yes, Arpaio used the Surprise Tea Party for his political ends. Mike Zullo was the conduit between Arpaio and the Surprise Tea Party. The Cold Case Posse, as a non-profit 501(c)3, wasn't supposed to be utilized for political purposes, but in fact it was. Denise and I resigned from the board of the Surprise Tea Party Patriots in early June of 2012, shortly after we voted against hosting the Lord Monckton event that was put on by the STPP. Denise and I refused to attend the event. Shortly thereafter, on June 30, 2012, I resigned from the CCP. We had had enough. I'll give him credit, Joe Arpaio is a marketing and fund raising genius.



Brian Reilly
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:11 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9613

Post by Brian Reilly » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:08 am

Suranis wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:32 pm
People have good and bad sides.

Except me, of course. :mrgreen:

I watched one of Arpiao's speeches once to a friendly crowd, and he was extremely funny, and charming. I can see why people liked him.

I'm sure the Birther thing was just one of a long list of cons he had on the go, and money was his reason. I think he locked up Hispanics because it got money and votes, not because he was racist per se. If there was money in it he would have been dangling whites upside down over a slow fire. It's Joe vs the world.
Well said Suranis.



User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 41872
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Trump International - Malibu

Re: The Post and Email

#9614

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:13 am

I am not impressed with a "I sincerely believed the racists" defense.



Brian Reilly
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:11 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9615

Post by Brian Reilly » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:18 am

realist wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:23 pm
Brian Reilly wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:07 pm
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:49 pm


My view was, and remains, that those who have "questions" about President Obama's birthplace do so out of racism.
I think that the controversy over the birth certificate may have been initiated by individuals who really objected to a black president. Once the controversy was in full force, many people began to have questions about the authenticity of President Obama's credentials. However, I think it's unjustified to label all people with questions as racists. I for one could care less whether Obama was black or white. My questions came about because of the ongoing controversy, not because of any racial animosity.
Imagined controversy by a bunch of lunatics.

At the time of his run for president I understood the questioning of whether he was a natural born citizen by those completely uneducated in the the Constitution and, well, missed fifth grade civics class.

Outside of racism, however, I never understood why anyone, anyone, would question the validity of his birth certificate. And only his, by the way.
Actually, Arpaio put in a call to the Romney for President campaign and requested a copy of Romney's birth certificate. Arpaio made the request with the chuckling caveat that they not send the birth certificate if there was a problem with the document. To my knowledge Romney's birth certificate copy was never sent to Arpaio. (I was sitting across the table from Joe in the MCSO conference room when Arpaio made the call to the Romney campaign.)



User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 41872
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Trump International - Malibu

Re: The Post and Email

#9616

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:25 am

Arpaio had no problems with Romney's birth because Romney was white.



User avatar
realist
Posts: 34170
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:33 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9617

Post by realist » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:31 am

Brian Reilly wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:18 am

Actually, Arpaio put in a call to the Romney for President campaign and requested a copy of Romney's birth certificate. Arpaio made the request with the chuckling caveat that they not send the birth certificate if there was a problem with the document. To my knowledge Romney's birth certificate copy was never sent to Arpaio. (I was sitting across the table from Joe in the MCSO conference room when Arpaio made the call to the Romney campaign.)
While I appreciate your anecdotal comment about Romney's BC, the fact still is the "legitimacy" of Obama's BC was the only one ever questioned.
realist wrote:Outside of racism, however, I never understood why anyone, anyone, would question the validity of his birth certificate. And only his, by the way.
Brian wrote:Think what you may of me, you have no idea what I and my wife have contributed to the legal effort to expose Arpaio's actions. I won't go into specifics.
No, we have no idea because you refuse to enlighten us. The highlighted portion of your remark has been my problem with your "exposure" since you came out against the CCP. I expressed that early on here, and I know at Doc C's and perhaps other places. If your aim/goal is to really expose them for what we all know they are, though only you know some of the "inside" information, then let's hear all the dirt. Not a lot of cherry-picking.

That is all.


ImageX 4 (have met 36 Obots at meetups) Image X 4
Image

User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 41872
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Trump International - Malibu

Re: The Post and Email

#9618

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:32 am

:like:



Brian Reilly
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:11 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9619

Post by Brian Reilly » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:37 am

Slartibartfast wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:12 pm
Mikedunford wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:33 pm
My view is, was, and remains that there was never a good faith basis for anyone to have "questions" regarding Obama's birthplace.
This is complete and utter unscientific bullshit. There was a good faith basis (and still is) for anyone who isn't an expert of Constitutional law (or hasn't gotten an answer backed up by credible and relevant expertise) and hasn't seen the COLB to have questions regarding President Obama's natural born citizenship (or his place of birth). Otherwise, you are saying that I acted in bad faith (and, in Stern's opinion, was a racist), because I asked about President Obama's natural born citizenship after first encountering birthers at Texas Darlin's blog before the 2008 elections. I was very seriously concerned and didn't know the answer. Of course, I investigated and my ignorance was easy to alleviate -- and now I can no longer question President Obama's natural born citizenship in good faith. But I can still question, for instance, Rafael Cruz's, as :sterngard: does.

There are, of course, usually many tells in how you go about investigating if you are not acting in good faith. If you wont say what it will take to change your mind (or, even worse, simply wont change your mind period), you aren't acting in good faith. If you don't investigate by trying to prove yourself wrong (i.e. establish the conditions which would change your mind), you aren't acting in good faith. And if you don't consider any other scientific evidence you come by on its merits, you aren't acting in good faith. Too, also, avoiding any of these willfully is pretty much the definition of "bad faith"

Actually, this seems to be tautological from an epistemological point of view. If you act with scientific integrity, then your beliefs are what is most likely to be true given the evidence you have. In other words, your faith is good. If you fail to follow a scientific methodology, then there is a chance that your faith is bad (i.e. you are wrong), which increases to certainty over time.

But don't take my word for it, listen to what Tommy Jefferson had to say...
I think the educational and psychological studies I mentioned are examples of what I would like to call Cargo Cult Science. In the South Seas there is a Cargo Cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes land with lots of good materials, and they want the same thing to happen now. So they’ve arranged to make things like runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head like headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas—he’s the controller—and they wait for the airplanes to land. They’re doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the way it looked before. But it doesn’t work. No airplanes land. So I call these things Cargo Cult Science, because they follow all the apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but they’re missing something essential, because the planes don’t land.

Now it behooves me, of course, to tell you what they’re missing. But it would he just about as difficult to explain to the South Sea Islanders how they have to arrange things so that they get some wealth in their system. It is not something simple like telling them how to improve the shapes of the earphones. But there is one feature I notice that is generally missing in Cargo Cult Science. That is the idea that we all hope you have learned in studying science in school—we never explicitly say what this is, but just hope that you catch on by all the examples of scientific investigation. It is interesting, therefore, to bring it out now and speak of it explicitly. It’s a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty—a kind of leaning over backwards. For example, if you’re doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid—not only what you think is right about it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you’ve eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked—to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated.

Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given, if you know them. You must do the best you can—if you know anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong—to explain it. If you make a theory, for example, and advertise it, or put it out, then you must also put down all the facts that disagree with it, as well as those that agree with it. There is also a more subtle problem. When you have put a lot of ideas together to make an elaborate theory, you want to make sure, when explaining what it fits, that those things it fits are not just the things that gave you the idea for the theory; but that the finished theory makes something else come out right, in addition.

In summary, the idea is to try to give all of the information to help others to judge the value of your contribution; not just the information that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another.
"Just asking questions" is never wrong -- you just have to have the integrity to seek out the answers you don't want to hear, listen to them, and take them to heart. At least that's what I believe and strive to do myself.

Addendum: Sorry Stern, but you're saying that Brian was a racist because he was exposed to propaganda that he wanted to believe and, after making a good faith effort to evaluate that propaganda, decided that it wasn't correct. I say that he proved his integrity on the birther issue beyond question, something that no anti-birther can ever do (since President Obama is, in fact, a natural born citizen). Too, also, Realist, there is no way to know, a priori, that the birther foo-foo-raw was an "imagined controversy by a bunch of lunatics". Although it is easily determined on closer inspection, you can't say that the birthers, the 9/11 truthers, or the advocates of the big bang theory1 are acting in bad faith until you see them using unscientific methodologies.
  • 1. I am completely serious about this and can defend this statement. The big bang theory, true or not, is exactly the kind of cargo cult science that Feynman was describing.
Slarti, Thank you for your comment. Because of the controversy, I didn't know what to believe about the birth certificate. I had only seen pictures of President Obama's birth certificates, or a PDF representation of his birth certificate. Had there been no ongoing dishonest propaganda war from the right, I probably would have accepted the pictures at face value. My question was intended to establish, at least for me, a belief that the controversy was justified or unjustified. I'm satisfied that the controversy was unjustified as substantiated by the Verification of Birth sent by the HDOH to the Arizona Secretary of State. I'm also satisfied that the HDOH followed the requirements of HRS 338-18 in the issuance of the Verification.



User avatar
Mikedunford
Posts: 8384
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9620

Post by Mikedunford » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:39 am

Brian Reilly wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:54 am
Mike Dunford
"I'm not even seeing an effort at it here. All I'm seeing are self-serving attempts to explain why you aren't personally responsible for the things that happened as a result of your efforts - efforts which were, at absolute best, thoughtless."

Brian Reilly
I respectfully disagree with your assessment. My effort exposed Arpaio and the operation for what it was, a sham investigation. I asked a question and I got my answer. Thanks for your comment.
And still you refuse to even acknowledge that your actions, which were at best ill-informed, hurt real human beings. You wronged people, but you don’t have the courage, the integrity, the honesty, the funamental human decency to stand up, look them in the eye, and say “I messed up. I’m sorry.”

Instead, you stand there in the rubble yelling “I exposed the monster! You’re welcome!” News flash: Joe’s clothes had rotted off before you got involved. He was exposed when you first walked into his office, at least to those who took the time to look. You were one of the only people left on the planet who didn’t already know him for what he is. Many, many people had seen him for what he is long before you irresponsibly decided to give him the fruits of your incompetence to use as a weapon against a President he was already known to despise.

If Foggy is willing to forgive you, that’s Foggy’s call. I’m more old school. Forgiveness goes hand-in-hand with acknowledgment and atonement. I was in Hawai‘i when the effects of your ignorance hit, and it’s a very small state.


I believe that each era finds a improvement in law each year brings something new for the benefit of mankind.

--Clarence Earl Gideon

Brian Reilly
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:11 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9621

Post by Brian Reilly » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:02 am

realist wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:31 am
Brian Reilly wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:18 am

Actually, Arpaio put in a call to the Romney for President campaign and requested a copy of Romney's birth certificate. Arpaio made the request with the chuckling caveat that they not send the birth certificate if there was a problem with the document. To my knowledge Romney's birth certificate copy was never sent to Arpaio. (I was sitting across the table from Joe in the MCSO conference room when Arpaio made the call to the Romney campaign.)
While I appreciate your anecdotal comment about Romney's BC, the fact still is the "legitimacy" of Obama's BC was the only one ever questioned.
realist wrote:Outside of racism, however, I never understood why anyone, anyone, would question the validity of his birth certificate. And only his, by the way.
Brian wrote:Think what you may of me, you have no idea what I and my wife have contributed to the legal effort to expose Arpaio's actions. I won't go into specifics.
No, we have no idea because you refuse to enlighten us. The highlighted portion of your remark has been my problem with your "exposure" since you came out against the CCP. I expressed that early on here, and I know at Doc C's and perhaps other places. If your aim/goal is to really expose them for what we all know they are, though only you know some of the "inside" information, then let's hear all the dirt. Not a lot of cherry-picking.

That is all.
realist, Thanks for your comment. I've given many specifics, especially through the courtesy of Doc. C's website. For example, one of the things that I've exposed was the $10,000 "gift" that volunteer Posseman Mike Zullo received from Mr. Bill Wolf, who was a source for the birth certificate investigation. CBS-5 KPHO, Phoenix and Morgan Loew did an extensive review of that situation. Arpaio did nothing about the $10,000 "gift." There is a complete history of things that have been exposed over at Doc. C's. For those interested, I would recommend a visit to Doc. C's site. Also, too, when I do reveal bits of information, that I personally have knowledge about, I'm simply expressing the facts and not trying to pat myself on the back. A lot of cherry picking can eventually produce a wonderful cherry pie. Thanks again, realist.



User avatar
Reality Check
Posts: 14350
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Post and Email

#9622

Post by Reality Check » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:43 am

Brian Reilly wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:54 am
My effort exposed Arpaio and the operation for what it was, a sham investigation.
I've mostly stayed out of this discussion but I have to respond to this statement. I beg to disagree Brian. It had been exposed as a sham by others by the time it started. By the time you sent the petition to Arpaio Doctor Conspiracy had published dozens of articles debunking the birther claims that eventually were trotted out at the first press conference in March 2012. John Woodman had published four videos and a book by August of 2011 showing that there had to be an original paper source document for the multiple images of the LFBC. Yet, Zullo (and you I presume) spent all his time and effort trying to prove the PDF file was a "computer generated forgery".

By the time the investigation started Reality Check Radio had John Woodman and others as guests who debunked Corsi's and other Birther claims. I had offered a show for the Birther experts to debate John Woodman. Eventually John took on Corsi and several others by himself on a Birther radio show and pretty much wiped the floor with them. RC Radio helped shine the light on the stupid Birther Bills by having guests like Mae Beavers from Tennessee and Mark Hatfield from Georgia.

There are other people like commenters at the Politijab and Obama Conspiracy Theories blog who provided valuable information. The first suggestion that the LFBC PDF originated on a Xerox WorkCentre was made on March 20, 2012 by a commenter going by "justlw" at OCT. Other bloggers like NBC had done yeoman's work too.

I am not discounting what you did. It was important that someone inside the investigation woke up and saw the reality. You helped expose Zullo's incompetence and the mishandling of funds. I think you overplay the importance of Bennett's request for the verification from Hawaii. First, he was foolish to listen to Birther's and request it. Then he goofed up the request. The request letter from the attorneys in the Mississippi case and resulting verification corrected those deficiencies. The verifications meant nothing to Zullo and Arapio because they already thought Hawaii was complicit and still do to this day.

So I take offense that you seem to be taking so much credit for exposing Arpaio when in reality the job was done while you were still out there trying to expose Obama as a fraud.


"“If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention.”

Heather Heyer, November 2016

User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 41872
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Trump International - Malibu

Re: The Post and Email

#9623

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:00 am

Taking credit for "exposing" Joe Arpaio, after feeding his racism, is pretty much like a rooster taking credit for the sunrise after he fucked a hen and crowed at the accomplishment.



User avatar
bob
Posts: 22723
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:22 pm

Re: The Post and Email

#9624

Post by bob » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:18 pm

P&E: Hannity: In Text Messages, FBI Special Agent Admits to Withholding Documents from Congress:
HOW CORRUPT IS FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT?

In discussing the DOJ-recovered text messages of FBI Special Agent Peter Strzok and FBI attorney Lisa Page said to have been lost last Friday, “Hannity” host Sean Hannity announced at approximately 9:24 p.m. EST that one of Strzok’s text messages to Page admitted to withholding FBI witness reports known as “302s” from members of Congress in the course of its investigations into alleged political bias within upper management of the agency.

* * *

As Obama birth certificate investigator Mike Zullo has frequently said on recent radio interviews, after his five-year probe found conclusive evidence that Barack Hussein Obama’s “long-form” birth certificate and Selective Service registration form are fraudulent, there was “nowhere to turn” with the information because federal law-enforcement agencies were wholly compromised.

“This was a coordinated effort between the White House, the DOJ, the FBI, the Secret Service, and Selective Service, and mainstream media, to kill this issue,” Zullo told “Freedom Friday” host Carl Gallups on December 2.

Both Mueller and Comey served respective terms as FBI Director while the long-form birth certificate image was posted at whitehouse.gov “with the intent to deceive,” as Zullo has described it.
Even when Rondeau is watching FOX, she dreams of Zullo. :daydream:


Imagex5
Imagex2 Imagex3 Imagex2

User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 41872
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Trump International - Malibu

Re: The Post and Email

#9625

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:44 pm

I pine for the good old days, when Rondeau was dreaming of FitzFundFilcher and writing third person editorials condemning the loss of her welfare funds.



Post Reply

Return to “Miscellaneous”