Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

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Suranis
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#1

Post by Suranis » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:09 am

Something interesting popped up at [/break1]blogspot.com/2011/04/final-report-obamas-birth-announcements.html]http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2011/04 ... ments.htmlSomeone claimed this.Sam Sewell said... JJ, You are just plain wrong! “Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth [/break1]cc/254e6]http://tiny.cc/254e6 was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii. Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence. If the authorities accepted it, that was the end of it. All a person had to do was file a false statement and Hawaii took them at their word. One could not just say "My kid was born in Des Moines but I want him to have a Hawaiian birth record". But if you lied no investigation was conducted to validate your claim and the Hawaiian birth record was issued no questions asked.He also gave this text for the act in questionAN ACTTo Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth.Be it Enacted by the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii:ACT 96.AN ACTTo PROVIDE FOR THE ISSUANCE OF CERTIFICATES OF HAWAIIAN BIRTH.Be it Enacted by the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii:SECTION 1. The Secretary of Hawaii may, whenever satisfied that any person was born within the Hawaiian Islands, cause to be issued to such person a certificate showing such fact. The Secretary, with the approval of the Governor, may make such regulations respecting the form of application and certificates, the method of proof, kind of evidence, and time, place and manner of hearing, and all other matters and circumstances connected with such application, proof and hearing as to him may appear necessary, and such regulations, when so approved and published once a week for three successive weeks in a newspaper of general circulation published in the Territory, shall have the force of law, and such publication shall be deemed legal notice to all persons. The Secretary may furnish the form of such applications and certificates. All applications shall be by sworn petition, in which the party shall set forth circumstantially all the facts upon which his application rests, and shall be accompanied by sworn affidavits of witnesses. The Secretary and such persons as he may designate and appoint may examine, under oath, any applicant or person cognizant of the facts regarding any application and for that purpose he and they are hereby authorized and empowered to administer oaths, subpoena and compel the attendance of witnesses and the production of books and papers, punish for contempts and, generally, to exercise the same authority with regard to their special jurisdiction as is by law conferred on District Magistrates.SECTION 2. Any applicant or any person, who shall give or offer any false testimony, oral or written, under oath, in support or respect of any application for a certificate under the provisions of the foregoing Section, shall be deemed guilty of perjury and shall be punishable accordingly.Personally I see nothing in that act to do this. It just seems like an act granting the power to make regulations and forcing all applications to be through sworn affidavit to me. Since this looks like its going to be the legal smear du jure as the other act they lean on has been pointed out as only going into effect when Obama was 20, what are your thoughts on it?
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#2

Post by poutine » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:24 am

You are correct. The birthers have lied about this aspect of Hawaii law, and this birther seems to have confused the specific clauses at issue while trying to tell that lie. All Hawaii law provided for (and still does as I recall) was a birth certificate that accurately reports the foreign birth of some foreign-born child, to a Hawaii resident who requests the certificate for whatever reason. The certificate does not falsely indicate a Hawaii birth. And this quoted statutory language is not even the language that allows for these certificates of foreign birth anyway.

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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#3

Post by verbalobe » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:25 am

...if you lied no investigation was conducted to validate your claim and the Hawaiian birth record was issued no questions asked...And then he QUOTES.....:???


... the method of proof, kind of evidence, and time, place and manner of hearing, and all other matters and circumstances connected with such application, proof and hearing as to him may appear necessary...and:


All applications shall be by sworn petition, in which the party shall set forth circumstantially all the facts upon which his application rests, andshall be accompanied by sworn affidavits of witnesses. The Secretary and such persons as he may designate and appoint may examine, under oath, any applicant or person cognizant of the facts regarding any application and for that purpose he and they are hereby authorized and empowered to administer oaths, subpoena and compel the attendance of witnesses and the production of books and papers, punish for contempts and, generally, to exercise the same authority with regard to their special jurisdiction as is by law conferred on District Magistrates.





SECTION 2. Any applicant or any person, who shall give or offer any false testimony, oral or written, under oath, in support or respect of any application for a certificate under the provisions of the foregoing Section, shall be deemed guilty of perjury and shall be punishable accordingly.UNbelievable despicable gall. Liars and morons.





It is nothing more than the general statute establishing a birth certificate authority. Do they think the state should be able to issue birth certificates without such a statute? They quote it as if it's a special runround or loophole. How else would you write such a statute? I'm sure there is an equivalent statute (as may have been amended since) for every state.





No questions asked??? What does "method of proof" or "sworn petition" mean to them? A birth certificate submitted for registration is simply a form, and a FORM IS NOTHING BUT 'QUESTIONS'.





Liars and morons, every one.





I suppose the statute is missing the crucial language:


All applications shall be by sworn petition, in which the party shall set forth circumstantially all the facts upon which his application rests, and shall be accompanied by sworn affidavits of witnesses. The Secretary and such persons as he may designate and appoint may examine, under oath, any applicant or person cognizant of the facts regarding any application if it has been filed for a colored baby who later will grow up to be elected President and for that purpose he and they are hereby authorized and empowered to administer oaths, subpoena and compel the attendance of witnesses and the production of books and papers, punish for contempts and, generally, to exercise the same authority with regard to their special jurisdiction as is by law conferred on District Magistrates.Liars and morons.

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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#4

Post by verbalobe » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:29 am

The Secretary of Hawaii may, whenever [highlight]satisfied[/highlight] that any person was born within the Hawaiian Islands, cause to be issued to such person a certificate showing such fact.With satisfactory proof, not just to anyone walking in and saying so. I don't remember if this particular one has come up before, but what I have observed in the past is that birthers seem to think Hawaiian officials are either stupid, easily satisfied by someone's proof of being born in Hawaii, or somehow dishonest. It's disrespectful and I think it smacks of racism. I think part of the reason they would not accept Dr Fukino's statements and Janice Okubo's comments to the press is because they are small, brown women and so they don't think they can possibly be smart enough to not have been fooled or bribed by Obama. I especially get that vibe from OMG Sewell.+1 :-bd

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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#5

Post by realist » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:30 am

No one has ever denied the Act existed. The same or similar acts/laws exist in many states. It has nothing to do with Obama nor, as they continually state, could one just walk into Hawaii DOH and say my baby was born in Kenya, or Oahu, for that matter, but I want a Hawaiian BC saying he was born in Hawaii.





Hawaiian officials have stated they would require documentation and they would investigate to be satisfied there was indeed a Hawaiian birth before issuing a Hawaiian BC.





Those who believe they could just walk in an say I want a Hawaiian BC (even though not born in Hawaii) have been challenged to try it. None have or have been successful, that we know of, and I'm sure we'd know it. One of our members did try, however, and it didn't work.





“Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth [/break1]cc/254e6]http://tiny.cc/254e6 was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and [highlight]allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii[/highlight]. [not true] Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence. If the authorities accepted it, that was the end of it. All a person had to do was file a false statement and Hawaii took them at their word.
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#6

Post by verbalobe » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:35 am

Also, too, do they think the birther movement is the first group of Americans to suddenly think about and care about the veracity of vital records?





Do they think the authorities so empowered by this statute would not have as one of their first orders of business the objective of ensuring that the system was not subject to fraud?





M.O.R.O.N.S. and hate-filled liars. Did I mention that?





Sorry, but I'm steamed :D

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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#7

Post by Foggy » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:36 am

Believe it or not, Sam Sewell is [link]a member of Fogbow,memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=772[/link].But he hasn't visited since Aug. 2010 (which means he visited PJ, not Fogbow) ... I'm not sayin' lighten up on him, just pointing out an anomaly.He's the dude with the gazillion IQ who could just think us all into little shredded pieces if'n he wanted, 'cuz he's just so much smarter than anybody here, he said.
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#8

Post by verbalobe » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:48 am

No one has ever denied the Act existed. The same or similar acts/laws exist in many states. It has nothing to do with Obama nor, as they continually state, could one just walk into Hawaii DOH and say my baby was born in Kenya, or Oahu, for that matter, but I want a Hawaiian BC saying he was born in Hawaii.





Hawaiian officials have stated they would require documentation and they would investigate to be satisfied there was indeed a Hawaiian birth before issuing a Hawaiian BC.





Those who believe they could just walk in an say I want a Hawaiian BC (even though not born in Hawaii) have been challenged to try it. None have or have been successful, that we know of, and I'm sure we'd know it. One of our members did try, however, and it didn't work.





“Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth [/break1]cc/254e6]http://tiny.cc/254e6 was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and [highlight]allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii[/highlight]. [not true] Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence. If the authorities accepted it, that was the end of it. All a person had to do was file a false statement and Hawaii took them at their word.Exactly. Moreover -- to put a finer point on your "Not True" tag:





CLAIM:


"[statute] allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii"TRUTH:


"may, whenever satisfied that any person was born within the Hawaiian Islands, cause to be issued to such person a certificate showing such fact"There is NO language in the statute whatsoever that even implies that the authorities are allowed to or may issue a certificate to a person born outside the islands. Exactly the opposite.

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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#9

Post by realist » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:56 am

Proof that Hawaiian law related to registration of birth is completely different from other states. ;) Search TEX HS. CODE ANN. § 192.003 : Texas Statutes - Section 192.003: BIRTH CERTIFICATE FILED OR BIRTH REPORTED (a) The physician, midwife, or person acting as a midwife in attendance at a birth shall file the birth certificate with the local registrar of the registration district in which the birth occurs.(b) If a birth occurs in a hospital or birthing center, the hospital administrator, the birthing center administrator, or a designee of the appropriate administrator may file the birth certificate in lieu of a person listed by Subsection (a).(c) If there is no physician, midwife, or person acting as a midwife in attendance at a birth and if the birth does not occur in a hospital or birthing center, the following in the order listed shall report the birth to the local registrar:(1) the father or mother of the child; or(2) the owner or householder of the premises where the birth occurs.(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), a person required to file a birth certificate or report a birth shall file the certificate or make the report not later than the fifth day after the date of the birth.(e) Based on a parent's religious beliefs, a parent may request that a person required to file a birth certificate or report a birth delay filing the certificate or making the report until the parent contacts the person with the child's name. If a parent does not name the child before the fifth day after the date of the birth due to the parent's religious beliefs, the parent must contact the person required to file the birth certificate or report the birth with the name of the child as soon as the child is named. A person required to file the birth certificate or report the birth who delays filing the certificate or making the report in accordance with the parent's request shall file the certificate or make the report not later than the 15th day after the date of the child's birth.Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 30, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1993; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 519, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1993; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 76, Sec. 17.01(21), eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 751, Sec. 124, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 556, Sec. 81, eff. Sept. 1, 1999.Amended by:Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 68, Sec. 1, eff. May 17, 2005.(b) The section of the birth certificate entitled "For Medical and Health Use Only" is not part of the legal birth certificate. Information held by the department under that section of the certificate is confidential. That information may not be released or made public on subpoena or otherwise, except that release may be made for statistical purposes only so that no person, patient, or facility is identified, or to medical personnel of a health care entity, as that term is defined in Subtitle B, Title 3, Occupations Code, or appropriate state or federal agencies for statistical research. The board may adopt rules to implement this subsection.(c) The form must include a space for recording the social security numbers of the mother and father and the signatures of the biological mother and biological father. [highlight]These social security numbers and signatures are not a part of the legal birth certificate,[/highlight] shall be made available to the agency administering the state's plan under Part D of Title IV of the federal Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. Section 651 et seq.), and may not be used or disseminated for any purpose other than the establishment and the enforcement of child support orders.Sec. 192.004. INFORMATION OBTAINED BY LOCAL REGISTRAR. (a) The local registrar shall obtain the information necessary to prepare the birth certificate from the person reporting a birth or from another person with the required knowledge if:(1) the birth is reported under Section 192.003(c); or(2) a person who files a certificate under Section 192.003(a) or 192.003(b) cannot by diligent inquiry obtain an item of information required for the certificate.(b) A person from whom a local registrar requests necessary information shall answer correctly to the best of the person's knowledge. On request of the local registrar, a person who makes a statement under this section shall verify the statement by signing it.Delayed BC...Sec. 192.025. SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS. (a) The state registrar shall accept an application under Section 192.024 if the applicant's statement of date and place of birth and parentage is established to the state registrar's satisfaction by the evidence required by this section.(b) The certification of the state registrar shall be added to a certificate accepted for filing under this section.(c) If the birth occurred at least four years but less than 15 years before the date of the application:(1) the statement of date and place of birth must be supported by at least two documents, only one of which may be an affidavit of personal knowledge; and(2) the statement of parentage must be supported by at least one document, which may be a document qualifying for submission under Subdivision (1).(d) If the birth occurred 15 or more years before the date of the application:(1) the statement of date and place of birth must be supported by at least three documents, only one of which may be an affidavit of personal knowledge; and(2) the statement of parentage must be supported by at least one document, which may be a document qualifying for submission under Subdivision (1).(e) A document accepted as evidence under this section, other than an affidavit of personal knowledge, must be at least five years old. A copy or abstract of the document may be accepted if certified as true and correct by the custodian of the document.
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#10

Post by verbalobe » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:19 am

I've been trying to come up with a decent analogy.





It's like saying Virginia (say) doesn't have a concern for human life, because drivers are allowed to travel at any rate of speed they please without being stopped.





And then citing as your reference all the statutes about state speed limits, speed limits in general, signage, how speed limits are set, enforcement, relationship between city, county, and state police, speed traps, school zones, penalties, etc., etc., all of which basically say drivers are NOT allowed to travel at any rate of speed but must observe posted limits under penalty of law.





But... but... if someone CHOSE to speed, and no police were around, or if they paid off the police to look the other way, they COULD go just as fast as they WANT, without ANY PENALTY!Ergo -- Virginia doesn't care about safety. Yeah, right.





If Sam Sewell shows up, let me know. I'll be sure to point out my morons and liars comments before redacting them out of respect for a participating member :yawn: :twisted:

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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#11

Post by bob » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:24 am

CLAIM:


"[statute] allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii"TRUTH:


"may, whenever satisfied that any person was born within the Hawaiian Islands, cause to be issued to such person a certificate showing such fact"There is NO language in the statute whatsoever that even implies that the authorities are allowed to or may issue a certificate to a person born outside the islands. Exactly the opposite.It would have been entirely possible, of course, for someone to have engaged in document fraud, and to have used this process to falsely register a foreign-born child as being born in Hawaii.





Which would have required Obama's ancestors to have been deceitful, Hawaii officials to have been stupid, or both.





And all without a lick of actual evidence to back up these allegations of possible conduct.
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#12

Post by Sequoia32 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:51 am

Well, Sun Yat Sen got a certificate of Hawaiian birth in 1904 because his brother lied for him. Maybe this law was in reaction to that.





What is ridiculous is that Hawaii is the only US state where such a scenario is improbable due to it being out in the middle of the ocean!





Every US state has a provision for registering unattended births. CA and TX who have the highest rates of birth certificate fraud have more lax rules than Hawaii!





California will take the word of a 5 year old!


102575. "Affidavit," as used in this chapter, is defined as a written statement executed under oath by a person who at the time of birth was at least 5 years old and had knowledge of the facts of birth and shall include the full name of the person whose birth is being registered, the names of his or her parents, the date and place of his or her birth and the basis of the affiant's knowledge of these facts.[/break1]justia.com/california/codes/hsc/102575-102585.html]http://law.justia.com/california/codes/ ... 02585.html
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#13

Post by Epectitus » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:07 pm

Thank you Suranis for pointing me here. I will revise the Annoted Zullo immediately. :-bd
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#14

Post by Mikedunford » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:30 pm

Thank you Suranis for pointing me here. I will revise the Annoted Zullo immediately. :-bdHang tight. I'm at the scanner now w/ the laws in effect in 1961 in hand.
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#15

Post by Suranis » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:35 pm

Thank you Suranis for pointing me here. I will revise the Annoted Zullo immediately. :-bdWell I have to do something while I'm waiting for the world to end ;;)
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#16

Post by Mikedunford » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:41 pm

Up on Scribd now. Sorry for the delay. [/break1]scribd.com/doc/117573269/Hawaii-Statutes-of-1955-Chapter-57-Vital-Records] ... al-Records
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#17

Post by Mr. Gneiss » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:23 am

Reading through that brought back some memories, esp paragraphs 57-11 and 57-12. In the early 1990s I wrote several computer programs to create electronic databases of Iowa's vital records. QA/QC'ing the entry of the fetal death certificates was heart wrenching. :(( It looks like Hawaii & Iowa had very similar vital records statutes.Thanks Mike.

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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#18

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:54 am

Well, Sun Yat Sen got a certificate of Hawaiian birth in 1904 because his brother lied for him. Maybe this law was in reaction to that.





What is ridiculous is that Hawaii is the only US state where such a scenario is improbable due to it being out in the middle of the ocean!





Every US state has a provision for registering unattended births. CA and TX who have the highest rates of birth certificate fraud have more lax rules than Hawaii!





California will take the word of a 5 year old!


102575. "Affidavit," as used in this chapter, is defined as a written statement executed under oath by a person who at the time of birth was at least 5 years old and had knowledge of the facts of birth and shall include the full name of the person whose birth is being registered, the names of his or her parents, the date and place of his or her birth and the basis of the affiant's knowledge of these facts.[/break1]justia.com/california/codes/hsc/102575-102585.html]http://law.justia.com/california/codes/ ... 02585.htmlThat made me laff and laff.

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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#19

Post by Whatever4 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:58 am

That must have been some pregnancy.
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#20

Post by Epectitus » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:26 pm

New revision of The Annotated Zullo is posted to scribd. The additional help by Mike & Suranis here is reflected in a massively expanded discussion after Paragraph #31.Fogbowers are the best!
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Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth

#21

Post by slash2k » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:36 pm

California will take the word of a 5 year old!A lot of language like that is because of the need once upon a time for very much delayed birth certificates.For example, in genealogy research I've come across the passport application of my great-grandfather. He was already in his 50s at the time, his parents were both gone, and he was born well before the state of Texas issued birth certificates, so he had to get a sworn statement from his older sister, one of the few people left who had some personal recollection of his birth.For that matter, the Kansas State Archives used to have a program to help people born before Kansas started statewide birth registration (1911); back in the 1960s and 70s, there were a fair number of people, many of them widows trying to establish eligibility for Social Security survivor benefits, who'd gone their entire lives without birth certificates and now needed any evidence at all of their birth. (In those cases, the state vital statistics office could use old state census records as one source upon which to base a birth certificate issued sixty or more years after the fact, but statements from older siblings could also be helpful.)These days, there are not that many people still alive who were born before birth registration became mandatory, and even most of those have long since obtained the necessary paperwork, but the old language still survives in the statute books.

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