Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

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twinx
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#1

Post by twinx » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:48 am

Look what Mario Apuzzo got hold of. 'Members of Congress Internal Memo--What to Tell Your Constituents in Answer to Obama Eligibility...' Apparently a 'Bob 1943' got it from 'a Sentaor's office'.We have obtained a copy of the talking points memorandum put out by a lawyer for the Congressional Research Service to the Members of Congress back in April 2009 as to what to tell their constituents when they write to the Members of Congress and ask questions about Obama's eligibility. Now we know why all the answers coming back to constituents sounded like they were written by the same person and were full of the same obfuscations and half truths and non-truths... [bla bla][/break1]scribd.com/doc/41131059/Members-of-Congress-Memo-What-to-Tell-Your-Constituents-in-Answer-to-Obama-Eligibility-Questions] ... -Questions[/break1]blogspot.com/2010/11/members-of-congress-memo-what-to-tell.html]http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2010/11/membe ... -tell.html

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#2

Post by Foggy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:24 am

We have obtained a copy of the talking points memorandum put out by a lawyer for the Congressional Research Service to the Members of Congress back in April 2009 as to what to tell their constituents when they write to the Members of Congress and ask questions about Obama's eligibility.Not according to the document itself. It was written to respond to:


"inquiries from congressional offices ... Many of the inquiries have questioned why ... Obama has not had to produce an original, so-called 'long' version of a 'birth certificate' ... and have asked for an assessment of the various allegations and claims of non-eligibility status."That is one HELL of a find, Twinx. You rock!





That is the Official Debunking of Birtherism by the Congressional Research Service, no less.





It's not to help congresscritters respond to the loathsome Birferstanis. It's 14 pages long; difficult to boil it down to a paragraph or three to put in a letter to a constituent.





It's to 'splain the congresscritters why Birtherism is a crock of shit, so they don't get on the Birther Bus.





I only skimmed it, don't have time to study, but it addresses Indonesian adoption ... Vattel ... the whole enchilada.





On the other hand, it's dated April 3, 2009. Just a delayed April Fools joke, I reckon. [-(
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#3

Post by rajah » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:27 am

Look what Mario Apuzzo got hold of. 'Members of Congress Internal Memo--What to Tell Your Constituents in Answer to Obama Eligibility...' Apparently a 'Bob 1943' got it from 'a Sentaor's office'. We have obtained a copy of the talking points memorandum put out by a lawyer for the Congressional Research Service ..................... [bla bla][/break1]scribd.com/doc/41131059/Members-of-Congress-Memo-What-to-Tell-Your-Constituents-in-Answer-to-Obama-Eligibility-Questions] ... -Questions[/break1]blogspot.com/2010/11/members-of-congress-memo-what-to-tell.html]http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2010/11/membe ... -tell.htmlThats is one of the best ones yet and I bet Mario cringed when he read it. I have bookmarked that for further reference
Edit: PS I just noticed that I have hit the magic number, Post No. 1000

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#4

Post by Foggy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:50 am

This is a MAJOR find. I'm opening a new thread for it. This is gonna be huge news in Birtherstan. Now we know why Michelle Bachmann told Larry King that the only birthers are "on the left". The Congressional Research Service is a non-partisan office with about 900 employees. Also known as "Congress' think tank". [/break1]wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Research_Service]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressio ... ch_ServiceJack Maskell is certainly real. [/break1]linkedin.com/pub/jack-maskell/18/187/833]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jack-maskell/18/187/833Now accepting applications to be his pretend girlfriend. 8-)
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#5

Post by Foggy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:03 am

Books by Maskell:http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5 ... AA300_.jpg [/break1]amazon.com/Congressional-Misconduct-Policies-Practices-Procudures/dp/1607411172]http://www.amazon.com/Congressional-Mis ... 1607411172http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Xr5PW0wIL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg[/break1]amazon.com/gp/product/1587331527/]
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#6

Post by Foggy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:51 am

'Course, Tes and Sternie and some folks will tell us if Jack made any mistakes, like they do. :roll:What I'm thinking is, why haven't we seen this before? Prob'ly all the Republicans who made "inquiries" and got this back kept it secret, so they could do a little sly pandering to the birthers without actually becoming birthers themselves.
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#7

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:53 am

'Course, Tes and Sternie and some folks will tell us if Jack made any mistakes, like they do. :roll: :roll:

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#8

Post by Foggy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:55 am

Sic 'em, Sternie! Did he get it all right?
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#9

Post by twinx » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:56 am

The Congressional Research Service is a non-partisan office with about 900 employees.A likely story. From the same article.Building upon a concept developed by the New York State Library in 1890, and the Wisconsin Legislative Reference Library in 1901, they were motivated by Progressive era ideasOBOTS!!!

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#10

Post by twinx » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:05 am

Here's where the document was first mentioned. In the comments at the P&EBob1943 says: Friday, October 29, 2010 at 9:09 AM A few days ago I was sent, from Senator Lincoln’s office, a 14-page document from Congressional Research Service, titled “Qualifications for the Office of President of the United States and Legal Challenges to the Eligibility of a Candidate”. It is a “memo” from Jack Maskell, Legislative Attorney, American Law Division.I have yet to find this document at this website:[/break1]com/]http://opencrs.com/

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#11

Post by verbalobe » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:10 am

It has my BS meter pegged. In particular how many terms are in quotation marks within the text of the memo that aren't foot-noted like whoever's writing is doing repeated airquotes and emphasizing terms that are classic birther terminology. I find it quite odd>I admire your skepticism, but concerning the "airquotes" I think there's a simpler explanation: I think the author is highlighting the buzzwords or key phrases that would have sparked the inquiry in the first place.





I think it's his way of saying, in part, "if you are reading this memo in search of responses to claims relating to Obama's "birth certificate" and "vetting" (i.e., questions from constituents use those exact words) then you are reading the right memo."




Edit: Also, as I reread what I just wrote, I notice that there's a precision to this usage as well. To simply write birth certificate or vetting, without quotes, would imply reference to a singular, actual, known thing or process. And while Obama certainly does possess one or more birth certificates, and did undergo some sort of vetting, none of those are what birthers are referring to when they use those words; and as we know, birthers will ascribe multiple meanings to the terms they use, or no meaning at all, in their fervor to move the goalposts and keep the questions alive.





So I think Maskell (if he's the author) is being very precise by using "birth certificate" in quotes to refer to "when a birther asks for whatever they think a birth certificate ought to be," and not Obama's actual birth certificate.

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#12

Post by Foggy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:15 am

Yeah, but Kimba's on the right track. We do need to authenticate it. 'Specially if she has any thoughts of claiming Maskell as her pretend boyfriend. A lady can't be too careful these days. ;;) It pretty much destroys the "two citizen parents" meme, plus he gives a nice overview of how presidential candidates are vetted.
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#13

Post by realist » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:19 am

IMO it's and obvious fake. There's no mention of de Vattel (or as the birthers would say - Vattel). :lol:
ImageX 4 ImageX36
Image

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#14

Post by Foggy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:24 am

This is gonna make Orly's head assplode.
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#15

Post by mimi » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:31 am

Edit: PS I just noticed that I have hit the magic number, Post No. 1000
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#16

Post by TollandRCR » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:33 am

This report is termed "Members of Congress Internal Memo" by those citing it. CRS maintains an "Open CRS" collection of CRS "Reports for the People," and this internal memo is not included -- as would be expected. I have no idea whether CRS itself is authorized to confirm the existence of this memo or is prohibited from doing so. A Member could authorize CRS to put this document into Open CRS.An external test of its provenance would involve determining if an agency that has traditionally done high-quality research, with full citations, would have produced this report. If the report has fundamental flaws, it is highly unlikely to have come from CRS.
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#17

Post by Reality Check » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:46 am

I ran the OCR feature in Adobe and got the following results:Word count for "Blackstone" = 9Word count for "Vattel" = 0
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#18

Post by ballantine » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:50 am

This report is termed "Members of Congress Internal Memo" by those citing it. CRS maintains an "Open CRS" collection of CRS "Reports for the People," and this internal memo is not included -- as would be expected. I have no idea whether CRS itself is authorized to confirm the existence of this memo or is prohibited from doing so. A Member could authorize CRS to put this document into Open CRS.An external test of its provenance would involve determining if an agency that has traditionally done high-quality research, with full citations, would have produced this report. If the report has fundamental flaws, it is highly unlikely to have come from CRS.I didn't see anything wrong. Took a lot of work to put those footnotes together. Does seem similar to some law review articles I have read out there.

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#19

Post by Reality Check » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:52 am

I question the accuracy of this statement on page 11:Despite the absence of any formal administrative or legal requirement or oversight at the federal level, orspecific state requirement to produce a birth certificate for ballot placement, it may be noted here briefly that the only "official" documentation or record that has been presented in the matter of President Obama's eligibility has been an official, certified copy of the record of live birth released by the Obama campaign in June of 2008, as an apparent effort by then-candidate Obama to address rumors and innuendos concerning the place of his birth.I thought that the birth certificate was originally released to disprove rumors that his middle name was "Mohamed" instead of "Hussein"? Or was it both?
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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#20

Post by ballantine » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:53 am

I ran the OCR feature in Adobe and got the following results:Word count for "Blackstone" = 9Word count for "Vattel" = 0I like the part about Blackstone being the most important legal work ever written in the english language and being the cominant law book in England and America for a century.

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#21

Post by mimi » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:54 am

Here's where the document was first mentioned. In the comments at the P&EBob1943 says: Friday, October 29, 2010 at 9:09 AM A few days ago I was sent, from Senator Lincoln’s office, a 14-page document from Congressional Research Service, titled “Qualifications for the Office of President of the United States and Legal Challenges to the Eligibility of a Candidate”. It is a “memo” from Jack Maskell, Legislative Attorney, American Law Division.I have yet to find this document at this website:[/break1]com/]http://opencrs.com/the link to Bob1943's comment at the P&E:[/break1]thepostemail.com/2010/10/27/the-time-for-rebellion-is-now-this-decision-must-be-ignored/comment-page-1/#comment-28747]http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/10/27/ ... ment-28747

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#22

Post by mimi » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:58 am

Some other reports by Jack Maskell:Congressional Candidacy, Incarceration, and theConstitution’s Inhabitancy QualificationSummaryThe issue of whether one is permitted to run for and hold office in the House ofRepresentatives either after a felony conviction, and/or while incarcerated in prison,specifically involves a question of the qualifications, or disqualifications, to be aRepresentative in Congress. There are three, and only three “positive” qualificationsfor Representative in Congress set out in the United States Constitution: (1) age (25years); (2) citizenship (7 years); and (3) inhabitancyPDF:[/break1]senate.gov/services/pdf_crs/congress/Congressional_Candidacy_Incarceration_and_the_Constitutions_Inhabitancy_Qualification.pdf]http://lugar.senate.gov/services/pdf_cr ... cation.pdfStatus of a Member of the House Who Has BeenIndicted for or Convicted of a FelonySummaryThere are no federal statutes or Rules of the House of Representatives thatdirectly affect the status of a Member of Congress who has been indicted for a crimethat constitutes a felony. No rights or privileges are forfeited under the Constitution,statutory law, or the Rules of the House merely upon an indictment for an offense,prior to an establishment of guilt under the judicial system. Thus, under HouseRules, an indicted Member may continue to participate in congressional proceedingsand considerations; under the Constitution, a person under indictment is notdisqualified from being a Member of or a candidate for re-election to Congress.Internal party rules in the House, however, now require an indicted chairman orranking Member of a House committee, or a member of the House party leadership,to temporarily step aside from his or her leadership or chairmanship position.PDF:[/break1]au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl33229.pdf]http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl33229.pdf

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Congressional Research Service debunking of Birtherism (2nd CRS memo found)

#23

Post by Highlands » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:13 am

GREAT FIND! :-bd





I am, however, PISSED that my tax dollars were once again wasted by birfers. What will they tell their grandchildren? :-k
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