Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

User avatar
RTH10260
Posts: 18080
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Near the Swiss Alps

Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#1

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:50 am

to note a historical event
MARTIN LUTHER AND THE 95 THESES

Martin Luther Sparks a Revolution
The German monk's questioning of Catholic dogma leads to the Protestant Reformation.

Born in Eisleben, Germany, in 1483, Martin Luther went on to become one of Western history’s most significant figures. Luther spent his early years in relative anonymity as a monk and scholar. But in 1517 Luther penned a document attacking the Catholic Church’s corrupt practice of selling “indulgences” to absolve sin. His “95 Theses,” which propounded two central beliefs—that the Bible is the central religious authority and that humans may reach salvation only by their faith and not by their deeds—was to spark the Protestant Reformation. Although these ideas had been advanced before, Martin Luther codified them at a moment in history ripe for religious reformation. The Catholic Church was ever after divided, and the Protestantism that soon emerged was shaped by Luther’s ideas. His writings changed the course of religious and cultural history in the West.



User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 16066
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#2

Post by Suranis » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:17 pm

October 31, 1517: Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg with hammer strokes which echoed throughout all of Europe. This act has been portrayed numerous times thoughout the centuries, and until the 21st century it was accepted as fact. It has become a symbol of the Reformation as nothing else has.

It was like a slap in the face when the catholic Luther researcher, Erwin Iserloh, asserted in 1961 that the nailing of the theses to the door of the Castle Church belonged to the realm of legends.
The facts are convincing, the first written account of the event comes from Philipp Melanchthon who could not have been an eye-witness to the event since he was not called to Wittenberg University as a professor until 1518.
Also, this account appeared for the first time after Luther's death and he never commented on 'nailing anything up' in 1517.

Announcements of upcoming disputes were supposedly regularly hung on the door of the Castle Church. But, openly hanging the theses without waiting for a reaction from the Bishops could have been seen as a clear provocation of his superiors. Luther would not have done that because he only wanted to clear up some misunderstandings.

It is also worth noting, that there was no open discussion of the theses in Wittenberg and that no original printing of the theses could be found.

One thing is sure: Luther wrote a letter to his superiors on October 31, 1517 in which he denounced the sale of indulgence and asked for repayment and removal of the misunderstandings. With the letter he included 95 theses which were to be the basis for a discussion on the topic.

Today, the majority of Luther researchers see it as fact, that Luther did not nail his theses to the door of the Castle Church on that day. But the picture of Luther nailing the theses to the door of the church is still today the most common in regards to Luther, the reformation and Lutherstadt Wittenberg.
http://www.luther.de/en/legenden/tanschl.html


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

noblepa
Posts: 1009
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Bay Village, Ohio
Occupation: Network Engineer

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#3

Post by noblepa » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:26 pm

Part of what inspired Luther to write his 95 Theses was the lack of opportunity in the middle ages.

If one was not born to the Nobility or Royalty, you had no hope of advancing in life. You could not vote or hold high office. You could probably not own property, even a small shop. The best you could hope for was to be a skilled craftsman, such as a shoemaker or a silversmith. Even in the army, you could be no more than a foot-soldier. Officers were drawn from the Nobility, no matter how incompetent.

Except for the church. One did not need to be of noble birth to become a priest. A commoner could join the priesthood and advance to a position of power and wealth. For this reason, many men were becoming priests for all the wrong reasons. If was the only avenue available to an ambitious commoner.

Consequently, this lack of true religious vocation led to many of the abuses identified by Luther.

It is only fair to point out that the Catholic Church did, indeed, correct many of the abuses that Luther pointed out, such as the excessive sale of indulgences. But by then, the damage had been done. The Lutheran Church was established and there were other protestant denominations popping up, as well.



User avatar
ZekeB
Posts: 14806
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:07 pm
Location: Northwest part of Semi Blue State

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#4

Post by ZekeB » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:51 pm

Are indulgences any different from a Church requiring it's members to contribute 10% or lose their path to salvation?


Ano, jsou opravdové. - Stormy Daniels

Nech mě domluvit! - Orly Taitz

User avatar
Azastan
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:42 am

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#5

Post by Azastan » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:08 pm

ZekeB wrote:Are indulgences any different from a Church requiring it's members to contribute 10% or lose their path to salvation?
Indulgences are like a surcharge.



User avatar
Chilidog
Posts: 9063
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#6

Post by Chilidog » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:46 pm

:rotflmao:



User avatar
RoadScholar
Posts: 7374
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Baltimore
Occupation: Historic Restoration Woodworker
Contact:

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#7

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:07 pm

You know, I'm seeing a pattern that helps explain the American public's frustration and anxiety:

"We don't really care about you; we just want your money." ---sincerely, the Church.

"We don't really care about you; we just want your money." --- sincerely, the Businessmen.

"We don't really care about you; we just want your money." --- sincerely, the University.

"We don't really care about you; we just want your money." --- sincerely, the Government.

An exaggeration, maybe... but no wonder folks are depressed.


The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.
X3

User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 16066
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#8

Post by Suranis » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:22 am

OT, but I've been reading a few things lately that suggest Calvanism has had a far greater influence on the American Psyche than Lutherism or any of the rest.


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

User avatar
Mikedunford
Posts: 9719
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#9

Post by Mikedunford » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:55 am

Suranis wrote:OT, but I've been reading a few things lately that suggest Calvanism has had a far greater influence on the American Psyche than Lutherism or any of the rest.
I'd say Arminian more than strictly Calvinist.


"I don't give a fuck whether we're peers or not."
--Lord Thomas Henry Bingham to Boris Johnson, on being asked whether he would miss being in "the best club in London" if the Law Lords moved from Parliament to a Supreme Court.

User avatar
Tiredretiredlawyer
Posts: 7571
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 2:56 pm
Location: Animal Planet
Occupation: Permanent probationary slave to 2 dogs, 1 cat, and 1 horse

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#10

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:58 am

I luvs me some Martin Luther!!! As a former Catholic, I admire his grasp on the obvious use of the sale of indulgences to increase the church coffers. As a trial lawyer, I love the way he reframed the entire argument so faith only was the road to salvation. As a former teacher and literacy volunteer, I admire his translation of the Bible into German so the "peoples" could circumvent the Church's propaganda arm. As an activist, I admire his courage to do something about the Church's fiction about indulgences. As a not so closet rebel, I revel in his challenge to the Catholic Church hierarchy. He wasn't perfect, but what a guy!


"The people must know before they can act, and there is no educator to compare with the press." - Ida B. Wells-Barnett, journalist, newspaper editor, suffragist, feminist and founder with others of NAACP.

User avatar
ZekeB
Posts: 14806
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:07 pm
Location: Northwest part of Semi Blue State

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#11

Post by ZekeB » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:08 am

I had a Bible Thumper approach me when I was in the Air Force. He told me all I needed to do to get to heaven was get down on my knees and believe. This was the first I heard of such nonsense. Is a shady mechanic going to heaven because he believes, yet is a small pimple on the butt of mankind? There are several passages in the Bible that say no. The passage that states "all you need to do" is not found in every Bible. Otherwise I don't disagree with Luther and his thesis.


Ano, jsou opravdové. - Stormy Daniels

Nech mě domluvit! - Orly Taitz

User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 16066
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#12

Post by Suranis » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:08 am

From wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_tra ... nto_German
Pre-Lutheran German Bibles

There are still approximately 1,000 manuscripts or manuscript fragments of Medieval German Bible translations extant.[1] The earliest known and partly still available Germanic version of the Bible was the fourth century Gothic translation of Wulfila (c. 311–80). This version, translated primarily from the Greek, established much of the Germanic Christian vocabulary that is still in use today. Later Charlemagne promoted Frankish biblical translations in the 9th century. There were Bible translations present in manuscript form at a considerable scale already in the thirteenth and the fourteenth century (e.g. the New Testament in the Augsburger Bible of 1350 and the Old Testament in the Wenceslas Bible of 1389). There is ample evidence for the general use of the entire vernacular German Bible in the fifteenth century.[1] In 1466, before Martin Luther was even born, Johannes Mentelin printed the Mentel Bible, a High German vernacular Bible, at Strasbourg. This edition was based on a no-longer-existing fourteenth-century manuscript translation of the Vulgate from the area of Nuremberg. Until 1518, it was reprinted at least 13 times. In 1478–79, two Low German Bible editions were published in Cologne, one in the Low Rhenish dialect and another in the Low Saxon dialect. In 1494, another Low German Bible was published in the dialect of Lübeck, and in 1522, the last pre-Lutheran Bible, the Low Saxon Halberstadt Bible was published. In total, there were at least eighteen complete German Bible editions, ninety editions in the vernacular of the Gospels and the readings of the Sundays and Holy Days, and some fourteen German Psalters by the time Luther first published his own New Testament translation.[1] An Anabaptist translation by Ludwig Hetzer and Hans Denck was published at Worms in 1529.[2]
Luther's translation was certainly very influential, but to suggest it was the first German translation, or the church was suppressing vernacular translations is just wrong.


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

User avatar
Flatpointhigh
Posts: 7716
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:05 pm
Location: Hotel California, PH23
Occupation: Voice Actor, Podcaster, I hold a Ph.D in Procrastination.
Contact:

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#13

Post by Flatpointhigh » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:51 pm

500 years of anti-Semitism as we know it today. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... _Jews.html
I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.
Learn from this, dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, "When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine commandments...
Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self­glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.

* * *
Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch­thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.
Let the government deal with them in this respect, as I have suggested. But whether the government acts or not, let everyone at least be guided by his own conscience and form for himself a definition or image of a Jew.
What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly ­ and I myself was unaware of it ­ will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.

Fifth, I advise that safe­conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.

Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.
fuck you martin luther.



"It is wrong to say God made rich and poor; He only made male and female, and He gave them the Earth as their inheritance."- Thomas Paine, Forward to Agrarian Justice
Cancer broke me

User avatar
MN-Skeptic
Posts: 2388
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:36 pm
Location: Twin Cities

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#14

Post by MN-Skeptic » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:59 pm

Hidden Content
This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.


MAGA - Morons Are Governing America

User avatar
Whatever4
Posts: 11615
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:36 am
Location: Mainely in the plain
Occupation: Visiting doctors.

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#15

Post by Whatever4 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:23 pm

I was heavily influenced by the [National lampoon? Mad Magazine?] cartoon of Martin Luther nailing 95 feces to the cathedral door. The actual act of nailing theses never comes to mind.

:crying:


"[Moderate] doesn't mean you don't have views. It just means your views aren't predictable ideologically one way or the other, and you're trying to follow the facts where they lead and reach your own conclusions."
-- Sen. King (I-ME)

User avatar
RoadScholar
Posts: 7374
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Baltimore
Occupation: Historic Restoration Woodworker
Contact:

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#16

Post by RoadScholar » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:52 pm

Whatever4 wrote:I was heavily influenced by the [National lampoon? Mad Magazine?] cartoon of Martin Luther nailing 95 feces to the cathedral door. The actual act of nailing theses never comes to mind.

:crying:
I tried unsuccessfully to locate that image. But I remember when it came out.

(I know... :geezertowel: )


The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.
X3

User avatar
Tiredretiredlawyer
Posts: 7571
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 2:56 pm
Location: Animal Planet
Occupation: Permanent probationary slave to 2 dogs, 1 cat, and 1 horse

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#17

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:42 pm

I stand corrected on Martin Luther's German Bible not being the first. I also had no idea of his repulsive anti-Semitism. Thank you for setting me straight.


"The people must know before they can act, and there is no educator to compare with the press." - Ida B. Wells-Barnett, journalist, newspaper editor, suffragist, feminist and founder with others of NAACP.

User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 16066
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#18

Post by Suranis » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:56 pm

Well, Luthers Translation was an extremely influential translation so its an understandable mistake. A lot of people cant believe that the King James wasn't the first English Translation either :D

I had no idea about Luthers anti-semitism myself.


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

User avatar
Sam the Centipede
Posts: 6209
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:25 pm

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#19

Post by Sam the Centipede » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:47 pm

Suranis wrote:Well, Luthers Translation was an extremely influential translation so its an understandable mistake. A lot of people cant believe that the King James wasn't the first English Translation either :D

I had no idea about Luthers anti-semitism myself.
A lot of fundamentalists in the US seem not to believe that the King James Version actually is a translation. Surely Jesus spoke English?

I'm no theologian but I thought Luther's anti-semitism was well known ... but perhaps seminaries don't bother teaching in depth about the other Christian sects? (Except to say why they're all wrong!)



User avatar
Plutodog
Posts: 11945
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:11 pm

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#20

Post by Plutodog » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:50 pm

There should be no issue in the condemnation of the harm any humans have undertaken in the name of any theist institution or their concept of any related deity. Also, we ought to grant that all or most of the above are to one degree or another learning and following reasons for reform as society advances. One can only hope that all will engage and continue in such reforms, and insist upon separation of church and state, until the day no theism, no deity is used to oppress or abuse man or beast.

I would think it counter-productive and something of a waste to spend too much time as apologists for earlier regimes of any religion. Leave the dead to bury their dead, as one book (Matt 8:22) said, whilst we go about taking care of the living and the yet to live.


The only good Bundy is an Al Bundy.

noblepa
Posts: 1009
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Bay Village, Ohio
Occupation: Network Engineer

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#21

Post by noblepa » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:55 pm

ZekeB wrote:I had a Bible Thumper approach me when I was in the Air Force. He told me all I needed to do to get to heaven was get down on my knees and believe. This was the first I heard of such nonsense. Is a shady mechanic going to heaven because he believes, yet is a small pimple on the butt of mankind? There are several passages in the Bible that say no. The passage that states "all you need to do" is not found in every Bible. Otherwise I don't disagree with Luther and his thesis.
I believe this comes from the fact that Jesus said "He that believeth in me and is baptized, shall be saved". No "might be saved", or "may be saved".

Now, most Christian sects believe that more is required than simply saying "I believe". If one truly believes, one will act like it and try to live his/her life according to Christian beliefs. I have known several people who claimed to be born-again Christians, who were constantly saying "Praise the Lord" and such things, while acting in the most vile manner toward other people.



User avatar
RoadScholar
Posts: 7374
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Baltimore
Occupation: Historic Restoration Woodworker
Contact:

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#22

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:34 pm

Is that "shall" definition captured from Aramaic, Greek, Latin, or what?


The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.
X3

User avatar
magdalen77
Posts: 5384
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:43 pm
Location: Down in the cellar

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#23

Post by magdalen77 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:25 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Suranis wrote:Well, Luthers Translation was an extremely influential translation so its an understandable mistake. A lot of people cant believe that the King James wasn't the first English Translation either :D

I had no idea about Luthers anti-semitism myself.
A lot of fundamentalists in the US seem not to believe that the King James Version actually is a translation. Surely Jesus spoke English?
When I was in the Krazy Kristian Kult that was, sadly, a prevalent view. The ministers didn't teach it, but a lot of the members believed it.



User avatar
Volkonski
Posts: 18874
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast and North Fork of Long Island
Occupation: Retired Mechanical Engineer

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#24

Post by Volkonski » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:59 pm

Considering that the front page of the King James Bible clearly states that it is a translation and has done so since 1611, those folk are not very observant. ;)

Image


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 16066
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Re: Martin Luther - 500yrs of the 95 Theses

#25

Post by Suranis » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:46 am

Conteyning the Old Teftement? I thought my spelling was bad. :mrgreen:


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

Post Reply

Return to “Religion”