Religion / Atheism

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Sam the Centipede
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Religion / Atheism

#276

Post by Sam the Centipede » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:01 pm

Keep evolving, folks!(Or grow a big white beard?)



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mimi
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#277

Post by mimi » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:51 am

I'm not sure if this is the correct topic to put this, but anyway....



There's a post about a Christian minister who prayed to open a Tennessee General Assembly session.



http://bluenationreview.com/christian-m ... are-needy/



I had to click through to the TN General Assembly page to see the video.



That kinda stuff should not happen. And, it seems to be the norm.



http://tnga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.ph ... ip_id=9867



And, not that it's relevant to that nonsense, but the post says she was invited by Frank Nicely. Old-timers here will remember that he was one of Orly's first birther plaintiffs



I've always been on the fence about prayer at meetings. I mean, it never bothered me much if somebody wanted to open a meeting by praying for wisdom or guidance. But I think I've just been pushed off that fence.



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#278

Post by ZekeB » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:55 am

Religion. No religion has it right. What's depressing is that so many kill one-another over beliefs that have a very high probability of being wrong.


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mimi
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#279

Post by mimi » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:02 pm

Nashville Scene has the 'prayer' transcribed:











State Senate Trots Out Wingnut To Pray ... Against Insure Tennessee?



Posted By Steve Cavendish on Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:38 AM



I've never really heard a prayer like this before. At the start of the state Senate's business today, a guest of Sen. Frank Nicely (R-Strawberry Plains), June Griffin, offered the following prayer, with her voice sometimes breaking as she beseeched the Maker:



Almighty God of our fathers, I thank you for this privilege of speaking before this august body, thou who didst lead John Sevier, Alvin York, Brownlow and those great men in our history, I pray that your spirit would be in this chamber. And I want to especially speak about our great heritage of standing up for God and the bible. I thank you that you have preserved us to this hour.







I pray for the people of Tennessee who have been so downtrodden by the wicked courts from on high that they have been subject to tyrannical judiciary. And I pray that you would save Tennessee from the edicts of Washington DC that would go against the plain wishes of the people of Tennessee, particularly pertaining to the 9th and 10th Amendment.



I pray that you would sanctify this state, that it would be holy and would be a leader among the other states. That they would see that there is a God that lives, that you love the people of Tennessee. That you gave your life that we might be saved from our sins. I pray that you would forgive the many sins of carelessness or lethargy or desperation. The compromises.



Oh lord save Tennessee for Jesus sake, and I pray that your will would be done that you would be our coverage, that we would not be forced into these edicts from Washington DC or any other quarter, but let the people know that our coverage is the same as with Moses and the children of Israel when they went through the wilderness with only the divine providence of almighty God.



So I pray that everywhere there are meetings, and there is considerations and deliberations, that you would give these men and women who have been elected, give them the backbone and the remembrance of the Tennessee Declaration of Rights, Article 1, Section 2 — we are ordered to resist arbitrary power.



And I pray that this Bill Ketron would know your healing hand, that you would be with him and show him his responsibility. And show him that you are Jehovah Rapha, I am the lord thy God that healeth thee. I pray that healing would come to our state. That you would show that you favor us, because we love thee. Our fathers loved thee. And so we ask all of these things through our great and merciful high priest, who prays for us night and day. Save us from all of the enemies of our holy liberties. In Jesus holy name, Amen.

















more:

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/arch ... -tennessee





WTF kinda prayer is that?



And, a bit of background:







June Griffin, the pastor of the American Bible Protestant Church, gave what can only be charitably described as a bizarre opening benediction before the Tennessee State Senate, the Times Free Press reports.



Griffin — who in 2006 was arrested for stealing a Mexican flag from a Hispanic grocery store because “there was nothing English in the store,” and has advocated burning copies of the Koran — was invited to speak by Republican Senator Frank Niceley, and she began the prayer conventionally enough, asking that God protect the state.









When asked about the unusual nature of her speech, the senator who invited her said, “in this country of ours, we need a certain amount of conservatives that pay attention to the details. There are things that happen in this country that scare everybody.”



Sen. Niceley is, himself, a controversial figure with ties to Neo-Confederate organizations identified as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center.





more:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/musl ... nn-senate/



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#280

Post by gupwalla » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:06 pm

Supreme Court had a "civic prayer" case recently. It's considered ok to have such prayers and there is no special criterion for considering non-mainstream viewpoints.

I'd rather do without such prayers but current law allows them. If local citizens are upset about the tone or content then maybe local political pressure is the best way to address.


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mimi
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#281

Post by mimi » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:20 pm

Tennessee wants more God.







House Joint Resolution 71, proposed by state Rep. James VanHuss (R-Jonesborough), would add the language, “We recognize that our liberties do not come from governments, but from Almighty God, our Creator and Savior” to Article I of the Constitution of Tennessee.



The Tennessean included the legislation in its list of “bizarre” new bills. “That reference to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness in the U.S. Constitution isn’t enough for” VanHuss, the paper joked.



The new language could clash with Article I, Section 3 of the Tennessee constitution, which declares “no preference shall ever be given, by law, to any religious establishment or mode of worship.”



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/tenn ... stitution/



And they also note this bill:







That's in addition to Rep. Jerry Sexton's bill that would make the Bible the official book of Tennessee.



http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/po ... /23378347/



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MN-Skeptic
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#282

Post by MN-Skeptic » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:02 pm



Tennessee wants more God.





And they also note this bill:





That's in addition to Rep. Jerry Sexton's bill that would make the Bible the official book of Tennessee.



http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/po ... /23378347/





Which begs the question: Which version of the Holy Bible? The Catholic version or the Protestant version? Should it be the King James version? The Revised Standard version which I grew up with? Maybe the New International Version?



I see failure written all over this proposal.


MAGA - Morons Are Governing America

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SueDB
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#283

Post by SueDB » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:06 pm

Why, The Vulgate of course... right???


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Sugar Magnolia
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#284

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:11 pm

I see failure written all over this proposal.Oddly enough, it actually failed in Mississippi recently.



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#285

Post by SueDB » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:18 pm

Failing countrywide has never bothered Tennesseans.


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#286

Post by ZekeB » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:37 pm





Failing countrywide has never bothered Tennesseans.





The eastern third was quite pro Union. That kept some of the Cornfed army tied up keeping those locals in check.


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#287

Post by ducktape » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:37 pm











Failing countrywide has never bothered Tennesseans.





The eastern third was quite pro Union. That kept some of the Cornfed army tied up keeping those locals in check.







That was before Fox News.



When I worked for the TV station in Chattanooga, I was putting together the weekly Friday ad for the major book store, and one week, the Bible (Revised Standard Version) was one of the books on the sale. The announcer walked out and refused to read the ad, and I had to run all over the station to find someone with announcer chops who would do it.



At the time, I had never heard of the KJV being the only Bible "Authorized" by god.



ETA: 1968



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Re: Religion / Atheism

#288

Post by Volkonski » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:49 pm

In America religion is increasingly a thing dominated by old people. I suspect that this explains a lot of Republican thinking and the divide between old (mostly white) Americans and the rest of the population.
When Malone-Wardley arrived, just over 3 percent of the conference's ordained pastors were younger than 35. Nationally in her denomination - America's largest mainstream Protestant group - more than half of ordained ministers now are 55 or older. Among Southern Baptists - the biggest evangelical Protestant group - half of senior pastors are 55 or older and fully 20 percent are on the gray side of 65. Among Catholic priests, the median age is 59 - up 14 years in just over four decades.

Like their pastors, American congregations are getting older as well, with a Pew Research Center study finding a direct correlation between age and affiliation with a religious group. All but 11 percent of Americans ages 70-87 are affiliated; more than a third of those ages 19-25 are not.

"At the most basic level," said Bishop Janice Huie of the Methodist Texas Annual Conference, "our retirements will far exceed our incoming elders (ordained ministers). Without significant change, there will be a significant shortage. At another level, when we look at millennials, we find a group that's among the least formally religious." To reach them, she said, pastors should at least approximate them in age, be adept at using social media and understand that, while not overtly religious, many still feel "spiritual" and have an idealistic desire to better the world.

Duke Divinity School theologian Greg Jones traces the denominations' woes to the 1970s, when, he said, a generation of potential clerics, disillusioned by the Vietnam war, turned its back on institutions, including organized religion. Complacency compounded the problem as church leaders failed to recognize signs of a coming pastoral shortage. "The problem is that once you wake up, you can't fix things overnight," he said. "It's a pipeline kind of question."
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ho ... mpid=btfpm


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Re: Religion / Atheism

#289

Post by TollandRCR » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:40 pm

I have observed the same thing in Anglican churches in England. European friends, is it more broadly true in Europe?


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Re: Religion / Atheism

#290

Post by ZimmermansGhost » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:38 pm

The Catholic Church in Germany imports priests from Poland and Africa, who speak German only rudimentary.

In the region where I grew up there was a Pastor or Vicar in every parish. Now there is one for 5 to 10 parishs.


Please excuse my poor English. I hope you get the meaning of my words nontheless.

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Re: Religion / Atheism

#291

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:51 pm

Speak8ing locally for Switzerland, while many described themselves member of some Christian denomination, active participation by regularly visiting their church services was always low, at least since back to the 1960s, with spikes on the so called "high hollidays". After the 1968 hippie revolution it slowly became socially acceptable to openly express the nonbelieve in gods. But one never asks anybody to divulge the religious association, back then and now. In recent years several parishes merged to keep at least one of their churches full. Pastors already for decades have been recruited from Germany (common language), and I understand recently aswell from Poland. Several parishes have or try to lease out their church buildings for secular use. From the newspapers I understand that in the UK it is not uncommon that former church buildings have been liquidated and now serve very secular uses after conversion, such as appartment. Seems that in places some churches have been transferred into Muslim centers.



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Re: Religion / Atheism

#292

Post by Volkonski » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:24 pm

RTH10260 wrote:Speak8ing locally for Switzerland, while many described themselves member of some Christian denomination, active participation by regularly visiting their church services was always low, at least since back to the 1960s, with spikes on the so called "high hollidays". After the 1968 hippie revolution it slowly became socially acceptable to openly express the nonbelieve in gods. But one never asks anybody to divulge the religious association, back then and now. In recent years several parishes merged to keep at least one of their churches full. Pastors already for decades have been recruited from Germany (common language), and I understand recently aswell from Poland. Several parishes have or try to lease out their church buildings for secular use. From the newspapers I understand that in the UK it is not uncommon that former church buildings have been liquidated and now serve very secular uses after conversion, such as appartment. Seems that in places some churches have been transferred into Muslim centers.
I recall seeing a church that was converted to a restaurant in the UK that Gordon Ramsay was trying to save.


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
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Re: Religion / Atheism

#293

Post by Mockingbird » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:09 am

I may be a year late to hold forth on this but I'd say that since the King James English Version was good enough for Moses and Jesus it's good enough for Tennessee

:torches:



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Re: Religion / Atheism

#294

Post by kate520 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:44 am

Author Frank Schaefer's father, Frank Schaefer, had a church or something in Switzerland in the 60s, didn't he? He was not only Frank's father but the father of modern evangelical Christianity, the father of "I hate you if you're not Christian like me" Christianity.

RTH, do you remember him? Was he a social force in the 60's? He started out all full of the love of whatever and turned into a power hungry monster, in my eyes. Frank's son, Frank, now writes apologetic books and articles but I don't trust him.


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Re: Religion / Atheism

#295

Post by mmmirele » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:06 am

Francis Schaeffer is one of the architects of modern American Evangelicalism, in particular its obsession with abortion . His son, Frank, bailed on Evangelicalism for Eastern Orthodoxy, but now appears to have moved to "spirituality." Like kate520, I am suspicious of Frank. I remember when he presumptuously called himself "Franky Schaeffer V".



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Re: Religion / Atheism

#296

Post by RTH10260 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:37 am

kate520 wrote:Author Frank Schaefer's father, Frank Schaefer, had a church or something in Switzerland in the 60s, didn't he? He was not only Frank's father but the father of modern evangelical Christianity, the father of "I hate you if you're not Christian like me" Christianity.

RTH, do you remember him? Was he a social force in the 60's? He started out all full of the love of whatever and turned into a power hungry monster, in my eyes. Frank's son, Frank, now writes apologetic books and articles but I don't trust him.
I only happen know about L'Abri cause of interacting with a guy a decade ago on another forum system. In Switzerland they never had any influence. Back in those days any non-traditional groups (not mainline) would have been frowned upon.

Was just looking up the name to help my memory, so this link to NYT on Schaeffer:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/20/us/20beliefs.html



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Re: Religion / Atheism

#297

Post by Volkonski » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:27 am

As a "None" of the atheist variety I was pleased to see this article on the front page of this morning's Houston Chronicle. So happy I have lived to see these times. :thumbs:

Nonbelievers a growing political force in both numbers and dollars

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ho ... 843726.php
Consisting of atheists, agnostics and the religiously unaffiliated, the Nones are experiencing exponential growth and, their supporters believe, may be poised to become a bruising, anti-evangelical political force.

"This is the pivotal time for the nontheist camp to rise up and have their voices heard," said Roy Speckhardt, chief of the American Humanist Association, a group that has advocated and litigated a wide range of church-state separation issues.

:snippity:

"The way to reach those people," American Atheists director David Silverman said, "is to lead with information on issues they care about - the gender pay gap, gay rights, abortion, death with dignity. When we unite under the separation of church and state platform, everybody who wants equality wins."

:snippity:

In its most recent survey of America's religious landscape, the Pew Research Center found that, propelled by those born after 1981, almost 23 percent of adult Americans identify as atheist, agnostic or "nothing in particular."


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
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Re: Religion / Atheism

#298

Post by Plutodog » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:47 am

Volkonski wrote:As a "None" of the atheist variety I was pleased to see this article on the front page of this morning's Houston Chronicle. So happy I have lived to see these times. :thumbs:

Nonbelievers a growing political force in both numbers and dollars

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ho ... 843726.php
Yeah, The Atheist Experience has been broadcasting out of public TV and now the internet from The Atheist Community of Austin, Tx. since 1998 1997. 2:30-4:00 pm every Sunday PDT, now on Ustream and Youtube seeking to address theists questions and spread the good word on None:

[bbvideo=560,315][/bbvideo]
Edit: Edit to correct first year and add first episode
[bbvideo=560,315][/bbvideo]


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Re: Religion / Atheism

#299

Post by Volkonski » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:14 am

Professor Ceiling Cat speaks!

2016 Darwin Day Lecture- Evolution and Atheism: Best friends forever?

[bbvideo=560,315][/bbvideo]


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Re: Religion / Atheism

#300

Post by RTH10260 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:49 am

We may have missed this last December (at least I was preoccupied at the time)
Church Of The Flying Spaghetti Monster Can Officiate Same-Sex Marriages
Yes, you read that correctly.

12/16/2015 12:27 pm ET | Updated Dec 16, 2015
Cavan Sieczkowski Deputy Director, News & Analytics

If your childhood dream was to get married with the blessing of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you’re in luck — at least in New Zealand.

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which gained a following back in 2005 while protesting the teaching of creationism in Kansas public schools, is now legally able to officiate same-sex marriages in New Zealand after getting approval from the registrar-general of births, deaths and marriages last week, Stuff reports. Jeff Montgomery, who serves as registrar-general of births, deaths and marriages, made his decision based on a sub-section of the Marriages Act:

In considering the matter I have referred to the Objects of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, reviewed material available online about this organisation and considered other organisations already able to nominate marriage celebrant. A review of media and the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s international website show a consistent presentation of their philosophies. While some claim this is a ‘parody organisation’, members have rebutted this on a number of occasions.

The church announced the news on Facebook.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chu ... d4bcc011cd



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