Yeats:Things fall apart

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TollandRCR
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Yeats:Things fall apart

#1

Post by TollandRCR » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:20 pm

I put this under religion because that is where Yeats put his poem. With the exploding truck at Travis, the Conditt confession and crimes, and the appointment of Bolton, it seems that things are indeed falling apart. I am too old to be scared.
The second coming

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
My problem is that I do not have any expectation of a second coming of Winston Churchill or any other effective leader in a time of chaos. I do not see our steady anchor.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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TollandRCR
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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#2

Post by TollandRCR » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:28 am

A summary of a book, When Things Fall Apart
How can we live our lives when everything seems to fall apart—when we are continually overcome by fear, anxiety, and pain? The answer, Pema Chödrön suggests, might be just the opposite of what you expect. Here, in her most beloved and acclaimed work, Pema shows that moving toward painful situations and becoming intimate with them can open up our hearts in ways we never before imagined. Drawing from traditional Buddhist wisdom, she offers life-changing tools for transforming suffering and negative patterns into habitual ease and boundless joy.
There are people on TFB who are rushing into confrontation with the ignorance, stupidity, and evil that confronts us. TFB itself is a form of that confrontation.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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Suranis
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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#3

Post by Suranis » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:39 am

Yeah, I have been wondering where to place my own mind lately. Looking at that walking POsTUle actually rots your soul, and thinking about him all the time will do the same. I think what you can do is do what you can to stop the reach of the world that they want. Its pushing back against a glacier, but if you don't so it who will?

And I think its concentrating in small things. Smile at people on the street. Wage peace in your own little life.

And pray. There is tons of research on the effect that prayer has on the brain. You can call it enhanced visualization if you want, but prayer works.


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

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TollandRCR
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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#4

Post by TollandRCR » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:52 am

Fr. Andrew Greeley, sociologist, did survey research on prayer — who prays, to whom or what they pray, why they pray, what happens when they pray.

One finding was that a surprisingly high percentage of atheists pray. This made no sense to me when Andy reported it at a conference that I organized. Now I wonder if atheist prayers might be akin to Buddhist meditation. The calming effects may be the same.

Your counsel is good, Suranis. Attending to the little things has always been an important part of wisdom.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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Suranis
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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#5

Post by Suranis » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:11 am

The main thing is - Minimize your exposure to this shit. Take it in chunks, not 12 hours a day.


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#6

Post by Chilidog » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:37 am

It's funny you should bring up Yeats.

I was thinking of a poem by TS Elliot today
Mistah Kurtz-he dead
A penny for the Old Guy


I

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

....
Reminds me of Congress



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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#7

Post by Somerset » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:07 am

TollandRCR wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:52 am
Fr. Andrew Greeley, sociologist, did survey research on prayer — who prays, to whom or what they pray, why they pray, what happens when they pray.

One finding was that a surprisingly high percentage of atheists pray. This made no sense to me when Andy reported it at a conference that I organized. Now I wonder if atheist prayers might be akin to Buddhist meditation. The calming effects may be the same.

Your counsel is good, Suranis. Attending to the little things has always been an important part of wisdom.
As someone who spends a fair amount of time in Theravadic Temples and Catholic Churches, my feeling is that prayer and meditation can both be forms of mindfulness.

I can also appreciate the wisdom of confronting that which makes you uneasy. Moving to China and going to work for a Chinese company pushed me way of my comfort zone. It was especially acute because my previous employment had been a horrible experience, in part because of the cultural differences between Singaporean Chinese (which I was used to) and Mainland Chinese (which I was not). Now, after two years in China, I have a better understanding of Chinese ways and am pretty comfortable here.



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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#8

Post by kate520 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:00 am

I’ve had a calligraphic copy of The Second Coming on my kitchen wall for 33 years. That poem and Sinclair Lewis’ It Can’t Happen Here came to life for me during Reagan’s terms, when we saw the beginning of the most recent rightward shift. :swoon:


DEFEND DEMOCRACY

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DejaMoo
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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#9

Post by DejaMoo » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:09 am

This observation by Mark Twain is what I've been pondering lately. Twain was prescient:
We teach the boys to atrophy their independence. We teach them to take their patriotism at second-hand; to shout with the largest crowd without examining into the right or wrong of the matter -- exactly as boys under monarchies are taught and have always been taught. We teach them to regard as traitors, and hold in aversion and contempt, such as do not shout with the crowd, & so here in our democracy we are cheering a thing which of all things is most foreign to it & out of place -- the delivery of our political conscience into somebody else's keeping. This is patriotism on the Russian plan.



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TollandRCR
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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#10

Post by TollandRCR » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:12 pm

Prescient indeed. This reinforces my sense that the humanities are central to our society and our lives. We cannot be citizens of a democracy without them. We cannot be fully human without them.

Walt Whitman implored us not to be silent. He wanted to hear a loud yawp.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#11

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:20 am

From Kip W at Making Light
I met a farer from a far-off strand
Who said, “Two giant feet of bronze, gone green,
In water sit, bedecked with broken chains
That show their maker well did understand
That marks of former slavery yet seen
Thus serve to show dead servitude’s remains.

Near by, a broken torch lies, dead and dark
In grimy water’s tide that, fitful, passes,
And on the base, these words my eyes did mark:
‘Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses
Yearning to breathe free.’ Here ends the poem,
The rest is eaten by the restless water.
Along the shore, starved, feral humans roam
Whose brandished weapons offered nought but slaughter.”

KW 20180310



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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#12

Post by Patagoniagirl » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:10 pm

I want this thread to stay alive. Thank you all.



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TollandRCR
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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#13

Post by TollandRCR » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:55 pm

That image of the fallen Statue of Liberty is all too frightening. Stephen Miller said that the poem on the statue distorts the meaning of the statue, which is “American liberty lighting the world.”

Those people in the White House would take cannons to the Statue that we know.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#14

Post by Suranis » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:13 am

Well, Yes. She IS French, after all.

Anyway since failing to find a more appropriate thread I'll put this here, in my "endlessly more positive series."

Someone posted this on facebook and I think it could be a good book for a lot of people, but I think the promo page is something to think anbout here. Its a book called "How To Kill A Narcissist: Debunking The Myth Of Narcissism And Recovering From Narcissistic Abuse"

I don't think the 4 para rule applies since its a press release to get you to handover your buks. Its advice to think about adapting to the task of living in the endless reality show of a weak incompetent narccisit who wats you staring at his image on the TV all the time and feeling helpless

https://www.amazon.com/How-Kill-Narciss ... B01KN1PUEQ
Narcissism is an overwhelming and confusing topic. But when you reveal its mask, you see that it is basically a lie, told to those who are vulnerable.

Narcissistic abuse, by nature, is designed to keep you trapped in shame-based vertigo. It doesn’t just go away because you know it exists. Narcissism creates a set of beliefs, behaviours and paradigms in its target which must be changed from the inside.

‘How To Kill A Narcissist’ is a book with two aims:

1. To reveal the rotten core of the narcissistic personality so you can see it clearly
2. To present you with an inside-out strategy for healing, recovery and freedom

Whether you are dealing with narcissistic parents, husbands, wives, friends, bosses or colleagues, the same philosophy will apply. After reading ‘How To Kill A Narcissist’, you will:

- Become aware of the damage narcissistic abuse has done to your psyche and how to heal it
- See how the narcissist uses shame as a weapon to fool you into feeling inferior
- Understand the playing field which narcissists thrive on and how to stop playing their game
- Learn how the narcissist uses mind control to break down and rebuild your identity for the purpose of subjugation
- Gain tools for disarming a narcissist i.e. starving them of their narcissistic supply
- Have taken a closer look beyond the label of narcissistic personality disorder

‘How To Kill A Narcissist’ takes an enlightening look at the dynamic between a narcissist and their target. It takes you on a deep journey and describes:

- How we unwittingly qualify as targets of narcissists
- The shame/grandiosity continuum and how the narcissist uses it to crush your self-esteem
- The law of grandiosity and how it influences our relationships with the self-absorbed
- The effect that narcissism has on its target including: toxic shame, a dissociated mind and a weakened ego
- The obstacles which keep you trapped in a cycle of narcissistic abuse: the psychological cage, love starvation, low shame tolerance, guilt and conditioning to shamelessness

Using an inside-out approach, ‘How To Kill A Narcissist’ presents the seven practices for recovery and healing:

1. Get allies: Boost self-esteem through limbic resonance
2. Give shape to your true self: Uncover disowned parts of the self and restore wholeness
3. Skill up: Empower yourself
4. Flex your muscles: Challenge the psychological cage and come out of hiding
5. Even the scale: Restore balance to your relationships
6. Boundaries: Foster a strong sense of self and firmly protect it
7. Scorched earth: Disengage from those who wish to manipulate you

Each practice is designed to instil you with independence, strength, emotional resilience and awareness while allowing you to cultivate balanced, loving relationships and pursue a life of passion.

This is the art of killing a narcissist.
4 and a half stars' out of 25 or so reviews, for what that's worth


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#15

Post by DejaMoo » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:41 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre's observation on anti-Semites actually applies very well to the right wing today. They employ ridiculous discourse to keep the Left busy trying to refute those statements, in the pointless hope of persuading the Right to see reason - while all the while, the Right is busy carrying out its agenda.

From Trump's tweets all the way down to the local RWNJ reciting the right's crazy talking points, the strategy is very successful. While we're agonizing over polite responses and manners, they're carrying out their nasty agenda against people who need our support far more than we need Miss Manners to tell us how etiquette requires us to respond.
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.



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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#16

Post by Notorial Dissent » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:11 pm

The question is why try to persuade or dissuade someone of something they don't to change their opinion of ?? I think something about horses and water and dead horses comes to mind.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#17

Post by DejaMoo » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:28 pm

You can a lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make her think.



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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#18

Post by Notorial Dissent » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:42 pm

DejaMoo wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:28 pm
You can a lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make her think.
:yeah:


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Yeats:Things fall apart

#19

Post by DejaMoo » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:25 am

Fascism: I sometimes fear...

I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.

Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you...

It doesn't walk in saying,
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

- Michael Rosen
http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.com/20 ... -fear.html



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