September 11, 1857

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Chilidog
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September 11, 1857

Post by Chilidog » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:12 pm

Today is also the 160th anniversary of the Mountain Meadows Masacre

This should be an unfortunate incident from American history, yet from some of the quotes in the following article, it is clear that certain people are still unwilling to accept the truth about the incident.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/09/a ... t-in-utah/

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ZekeB
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by ZekeB » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:14 pm

One of our former (Rest in Peace, Ellie) members had a real problem with that sect because of the Mountain Meadow Massacre.

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AndyinPA
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by AndyinPA » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:16 pm

Not a lot of people are familiar with that, but it's past time when they should be coming to terms with the horror they committed.

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Tiredretiredlawyer
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:25 pm

Thanks for posting. I had heard the name but never knew the facts.
“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

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Suranis
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by Suranis » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:28 pm

I'd never heard of this. It all seems so senseless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
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Chilidog
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by Chilidog » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:42 pm

There is a fair amount of evidence that points to Brigham Youngs involvement, if only indirectly. One theory is that the Masacre was his way of telling the United States Government that he could close the Oregon trail if he wanted to.

One interesting bit of trivia, the only man charged and executed for the murders was John Lee, an ancestor of a certain Utah Senator. (As well as the various Udall family members)

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:54 pm

Clearly the Mountain Meadows perpetrators' Holy Bible omitted one of the more important commandments. Or just the word "not".

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ZekeB
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by ZekeB » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:02 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:Clearly the Mountain Meadows perpetrators' Holy Bible omitted one of the more important commandments. Or just the word "not".
Well the perps were only accessories to the murders.

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mmmirele
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by mmmirele » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:18 pm

I'm going to Utah later this week and I might drive over to see Mountain Meadows when I'm there.

I lived in Utah for several years and have a lot of Utahn friends. I can't even tell you how fraught the discussion around the Mountaun Meadows Massacre (or MMM) is. The church has never really come clean on its involvement. There are two different groups representing relatives and descendants of the Fancher wagon train. One is backed by the church. There's the church-owned site, a private monument and, very recently, a guy went out and found what he thinks are the actual cairns where the US Army buried the victims.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/mormon/2015/ ... wned-land/

When I lived in Utah in the 1990s, there was a scandal when a backhoe disturbed some remains (why was it up there?) The disturbed remains were taken up to the UofU and examined. Here's a report from Archaeology magazine:

http://archive.archaeology.org/online/f ... adows.html

The examination confirmed what had long been suspected-people had been killed by bullets, bullets which came from guns the local tribes were forbidden to own. So it's pretty clear the killing was done by white men from the Mormon communities led by John D. Lee.

One of my friends, a descendant of Utah pioneers and related to half the state said to me once, "You can't claim your ancestor just held the horses at Mountain Meadows. A lot of someones killed those people." It's still political all these years.

Oh, speaking of fraught...I remember how a low income housing project had to be renamed from Mountain Meadows to something else because, well, something as innocuous as mountain meadows is a nightmare in Utah.

maydijo
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by maydijo » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:00 pm

As a Mormon I wish this was something that was discussed instead of pushed under the table. I know a lot of people who have struggled with feelings of betrayal when they find out about this. The MMM is shameful and tragic. There needs to be a full and honest account, a reckoning of sorts.

Brigham Young was a complicated man. He could be a bastard. He wasn't always; but he could be.

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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: September 11, 1857

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:49 pm

So we name major universities after a brigand and a teenager who died of typhoid fever. All I get is some Business School in Pittsboigh.

Sheesh.

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