Anti-Semitism Everywhere

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by TollandRCR » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:38 pm

I sometimes write things that are not 100% clear, and people have jumped on me because they chose to read something in an unfavorable light.

Washington Post What happens when two immigrants, five liberals and a Trump voter sit down to dinner
By Caitlin Gibson March 17 https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... bcd4c0e256

Interesting conversations. People learn things. They follow these rules for 100 dinners in the first 100 days of Trump's presidency:

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by RoadScholar » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:43 pm

FWIW, I didn't read it as anti-semitism on Fortinbras' part; I read it as him trivializing anti-semitic acts done by right-wingers. And as half my family is Jewish, that won't fly with me.

I do however agree with him and others that Trumpism probably didn't create any new racist haters, the ShitGibbon just emboldened the extant population of them to act on it.

Maybe he worded it badly, but what he said about the anti-semitic acts sounded a lot like the way right-wingers call white supremacist terrorism "isolated incidents" done by "troubled lone wolves" so they don't have to own them. If that's not an accurate reading, I owe him an apology.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Foggy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:52 pm

But most white supremacist terrorist attacks ARE isolated incidents committed by 'lone wolves'. The organized part of that is the Breitbarts, the Fox News, the WND ... it's the right wing nuttosphere that inspires these whackjobs, but - thank Dog - there are very few really organized right wing attacks.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by RoadScholar » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:13 pm

That's just it... they use those terms to claim that Fox 'News,' Breitbart, Infowars, et.al. are NOT responsible for the attacks they so obviously provoke. Isn't a prolonged, tangible pattern of stochastic terrorism tantamount to an organized phenomenon?
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by vic » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:30 am

RoadScholar wrote:FWIW, I didn't read it as anti-semitism on Fortinbras' part; I read it as him trivializing anti-semitic acts done by right-wingers. And as half my family is Jewish, that won't fly with me.

I do however agree with him and others that Trumpism probably didn't create any new racist haters, the ShitGibbon just emboldened the extant population of them to act on it.

Maybe he worded it badly, but what he said about the anti-semitic acts sounded a lot like the way right-wingers call white supremacist terrorism "isolated incidents" done by "troubled lone wolves" so they don't have to own them. If that's not an accurate reading, I owe him an apology.
:like:

Since that cold dark November day I've tried to ignore all the threads related to Trump and the election. Every so often I read all the threads I don't think fall into those categories, then do a "mark all threads as read". I wasn't sure about this one, and so saw Fortinbras' post.

I don't care whether he's a Jew or not ( know I am, and I have he circumcision certificate to prove it). I was disturbed by his post. He seemed to be attacking a straw man that the trumpism was creating racists, and in so doing, it sounded like he was saying that trumpism wasn't as bad as some "we" were saying. And that doesn't fly.

While I've avoided the trump threads here, my facebook feed is full of posts about all the crap that's happening. And while I see the SPLC and the ACLU posting about the increase in racist incidents, nowhere have I seen anyone saying that new racists were being created. So why post that something which nobody is claiming to be happening isn't happening?

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Flatpointhigh » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:45 pm

Foggy wrote:But most white supremacist terrorist attacks ARE isolated incidents committed by 'lone wolves'. The organized part of that is the Breitbarts, the Fox News, the WND ... it's the right wing nuttosphere that inspires these whackjobs, but - thank Dog - there are very few really organized right wing attacks.
It's called "Stochastic Terrorism"

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by RVInit » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:36 pm

A very interesting read with clear examples of people committing acts of aggression, including murder and attempted murder after consuming a steady diet of the likes of Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Alex Jones and other pot stirrers.

http://stochasticterrorism.blogspot.com/

Here are the opening paragraphs, and it gets better. Seems like a well researched, fact based account of how rwnj teevee works to get the crazies motivated.
Stochastic terrorism is the use of mass communications to incite random actors to carry out violent or terrorist acts that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable. In short, remote-control murder by lone wolf.

This is what occurs when Bin Laden releases a video that stirs random extremists halfway around the globe to commit a bombing or shooting.

This is also the term for what Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity, and others do. And this is what led directly and predictably to a number of cases of ideologically-motivated murder similar to the Tucson shootings. As of this writing, there is no evidence to link Jared Loughner to a specific source of incitement; but some of the other cases can be clearly linked.

The stochastic terrorist is the person who is responsible for the incitement. For example they go on radio or television and stir up hatred toward a particular person or group.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Addie » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:46 am

CBSNew York/AP
Israeli Police Make Arrest In Threats Against US Jewish Community Centers

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — Israeli police have arrested a 19-year-old Israeli Jewish man as the primary suspect in a string of bomb threats targeting Jewish community centers in the U.S.

Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said Thursday that the suspect is “the guy who was behind the JCC threats,” referring to Jewish community centers in the U.S. that have received dozens of anonymous threats in recent weeks.

The suspect’s motives are unclear.

The man, from the south of Israel, used advanced technologies to mask the origin of his calls and communications to synagogues, community buildings and public venues, Rosenfeld said. The suspect also made threats in New Zealand and Australia.

The investigation was carried out with the help of the FBI and police from other countries, Rosenfeld said.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Flatpointhigh » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:22 am

and, fuck him. He did the anti-semites (and the JDL) a favor.

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:27 am

:yeah: Nice work, dickhead. :evil:
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Fortinbras » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:04 pm

Even though I am Jewish, some people interpreted my previous message as being sympathetic to antisemitism. No, but I believe that aggregate number of antisemites in the US has not increased in the past six months even though Trump and his entourage have taken over the White House. And when newspapers report "antisemitic incidents" they are collecting and mixing things as unambiguous as firebombing a synagogue with stuff as trifling as some unknown person of unknown age scratching a swastika on a park bench. Nor was I trivializing antisemitic acts, but I resist going full drama queen over mere rudeness as contrasted to brutal ugliness. Conspicuously antisemitic acts have increased only slightly if at all, trifling acts have become more noted though perhaps not more numerous. I suspect the antisemites that already existed may have gotten a tiny bit more demonstrative under Trump but Trump didn't make them antisemites.

This latest craziness turns out to be the work of someone who was (1) Jewish and (2) Israeli. I bet he'll keep a couple of shrinks busy for a while. Was he working out some resentments of his own, or was this some sort of secret agent operation of his own contrivance to provoke a crackdown on real antisemites or maybe lure a few antisemites into the open? Lots of possibilities, and the very real embarrassment of plenty of people having blamed non-Jews for his crimes.

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Flatpointhigh » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:38 pm

Fortinbras wrote:Even though I am Jewish, some people interpreted my previous message as being sympathetic to antisemitism. No, but I believe that aggregate number of antisemites in the US has not increased in the past six months even though Trump and his entourage have taken over the White House. And when newspapers report "antisemitic incidents" they are collecting and mixing things as unambiguous as firebombing a synagogue with stuff as trifling as some unknown person of unknown age scratching a swastika on a park bench. Nor was I trivializing antisemitic acts, but I resist going full drama queen over mere rudeness as contrasted to brutal ugliness. Conspicuously antisemitic acts have increased only slightly if at all, trifling acts have become more noted though perhaps not more numerous. I suspect the antisemites that already existed may have gotten a tiny bit more demonstrative under Trump but Trump didn't make them antisemites.

This latest craziness turns out to be the work of someone who was (1) Jewish and (2) Israeli. I bet he'll keep a couple of shrinks busy for a while. Was he working out some resentments of his own, or was this some sort of secret agent operation of his own contrivance to provoke a crackdown on real antisemites or maybe lure a few antisemites into the open? Lots of possibilities, and the very real embarrassment of plenty of people having blamed non-Jews for his crimes.
I will not be at all surprised to learn he is a member of KaCh

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Slartibartfast » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:43 pm

Foggy wrote:I've read what Forty wrote three times and I don't see why people are angry. I'm almost certain Forty is a Joo. His former avatar was the Wandering Jew. His last name - which I will not disclose - is probably a Jooish name.

All he's saying is that anti-semitic people are less inhibited under Trump, just as racist people were less inhibited under Obama. I agree. And he's right that the people acting on their evil impulses are not organized, any more than the racists in the past 8 years were organized.

Forty sometimes writes things that aren't 100% clear, but his heart is in the right place. Use the Advanced Search, put in Jew as the search word and Fortinbras as the author, and see if you can find any real antisemitism there. I can't, and I implore y'all to chill out.
I've noticed something about Fortinbras. Although, as do others, I frequently disagree with him or think he is wrong or naive, I have never seen him defend a position after someone had attacked its merits nor do I believe he has said anything that isn't his honest opinion. So even if he is wrong most of the time he does the boogle a great service by forcing people to justify why he is wrong. Attacking Forty's ideas is just what the Fogbow does, but attacking Forty personally is just the opposite, in my opinion.

Chill enough for ya, Foggy?

Flatpointhigh,

KaCh? :confused:

(I'm new to this whole Joo thing...)
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by bob » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:28 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:KaCh? :confused:
From the context, I inferred it was a reference to Kahane Chai.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Slartibartfast » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:38 pm

bob wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:KaCh? :confused:
From the context, I inferred it was a reference to Kahane Chai.
Thanks. Like I said, new to the Joo thing.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Fortinbras » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:26 pm

No, I am not supportive/associated with Kahane's outfit in any way. However, I will note that Kahane's son wrote the commentary for a Passover Haggadah that is very interesting and provocative and for those of you who collect and read the haggadah annotations, I recommend it.

I am, in fact, in favor of Israeli withdrawal of the settlements in Gaza and West Bank, as I think they are indicative of a lack of sincere support for the Oslo agreement - which ought to get a good faith try-out.

I believe that people like Bannon (and so far I have not yet seen anything from Bannon that smacks of antisemitism -- I haven't looked hard for it -- altho lots of people accuse him of it) have encouraged the existing antisemites and other racists to crawl out from under their flat rocks, at least for brief periods, but I don't think that they have actually changed anyone from goodwill to bigotry. When we get a sane administration back in the White House I anticipate the nastiness will start to fade.

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Slartibartfast » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:32 pm

Forty,

I think Flatpointhigh was suggesting the Israeli who made the threats was a member of KaCh, not you. At least that's what I assumed in context.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by RoadScholar » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:59 pm

Concur.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Flatpointhigh » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:50 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:Forty,

I think Flatpointhigh was suggesting the Israeli who made the threats was a member of KaCh, not you. At least that's what I assumed in context.
Correct. The "KaChers' here wouldn't blink twice about staging the threats in order to sow chaos amongst the Jewish community. also interesting, was Trump's comment during the spate of threats that he thought Jews were behind it. Coincidence?

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Fortinbras » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:10 pm

Thank you.

https://www.amazon.com/Haggada-Jewish-I ... min+kahane
This Passover Haggadah (note the spelling on the cover) now scarce; I recommend it highly.

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Addie » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:57 am

Associated Press
Report: US cases of anti-Semitism increased last year

NEW YORK — The Anti-Defamation League found an increase in cases of anti-Semitic intimidation and vandalism last year, evidence that anti-Jewish bias intensified during the election.

The Jewish civil rights group found 1,266 cases of anti-Semitic harassment last year, compared to 941 in 2015 and 912 in 2014. The increase continued into the first three months of this year, with reports of 541 incidents compared to 291 in the same period the year before, according to the ADL data released Monday.

The preliminary 2017 numbers include a wave of more than 150 bomb threats that started in January against Jewish community centers and day schools. Authorities arrested an Israeli Jewish hacker who they said was behind the harassment. The ADL insists those threats should still be considered anti-Semitic since Jews were the target. During the same period, a former journalist in St. Louis was also charged with threatening Jewish organizations as part of a bizarre campaign to intimidate his former girlfriend. But authorities believe the Israeli man is primarily responsible.

Even without those bomb threats, the number of anti-Jewish incidents this January, February and March in the report would be higher than the year before.

The FBI compiles annual hate-crime statistics, but the 2016 numbers aren't expected to be released until the end of this year. The ADL tally includes a much broader array of incidents, such as distribution of hateful materials, threats, slurs, intimidation and vandalism, along with physical assaults. The organization says its researchers evaluate reports from individuals, community leaders and law enforcement.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by ObjectiveDoubter » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:45 pm

This is counter-posting, I guess.

Last evening for Holocaust Remebrance Day, I went to Wilshire Blvd. Temple and heard the reading of Elie Weisel's Night. It was read from start to finish by 55 different notables, including two Holocaust survivors (who must have been small children), some novelists and journalists, a dozen actors, directors and screenwriters, several electeds, and among them all maybe 20 descendants of survivors.

It took three hours almost and after Kaddish was recited.

It should be read by every Jew. In High School, it was on a list of books among which we were required to read a given number, and I didn't select this one. I wish I had.

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by kate520 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:21 pm

Sprout really connected with Night when he read it for school last year. We both cried.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:29 pm

Night has been on my "favorite books" list since I read it in about the 6th grade. Maybe 1970? For many years, I could recite entire passages from memory because they were just that powerful. It was required reading several years later in high school so I got to re-read it and get credit for it that time.

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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Post by TollandRCR » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:31 pm

Is Night a trilogy? Amazon implies that it is but offers only one book.
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