Anti-Semitism Everywhere

Addie
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#251

Post by Addie »

Talking Points Memo - Josh Marshall
Anti-Semitic Rally In New York City

Before any more time went by I wanted to flag your attention to something that happened in New York City on Sunday. There was a rally of “Polish nationalists” protesting a bill aimed at the recovery of property confiscated from victims during the Holocaust. I put “Polish nationalists” in quotes here because I don’t want to equate Polish nationalism with the most unreconstructed forms of virulent anti-Semitism and Holocaust-denial which were on display at the event — placards with anti-Semitic attacks, various kinds of Holocaust denial, one demonstrator taunting a group of Jewish counter-protestors by waving a dollar bill in their faces, claims that Jews who died in the Warsaw Ghetto were mainly killed by other Jews, etc., etc., etc.

The event got almost no publicity in advance, seemingly in large part because it was mainly discussed and publicized in the Polish language émigré press and in Polish on social media. There’s been almost no news coverage since it occurred. One exception is this write-up in Newsweek. There’s also this write up with some video from The Forward.

Other than that though there’s been almost no coverage of the event in the US media.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#252

Post by DejaMoo »

Hate Trackers‏ @TrackersHate - 3h

Breaking: Third target in OKC Metro hit by racist vandal - Firehouse Art Center in Norman, Oklahoma. This comes on the heels of vandalism at the Chickasaw Nation and Oklahoma Democratic Party HQ. All three bear striking similarities.

UPDATE: Two other targets discovered in Norman, Oklahoma - Cleveland County Democratic Party office and McKinley School
I've heard this bull before.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#253

Post by Addie »

Haaretz: WATCH 'There Will Be a Purge:' U.S. Pastor Warns of 'Jew Coup' to Impeach Trump

Far-right site TruNews says YouTube removed their 'godcast' in which they warn of a Jewish plot to take over the U.S.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#254

Post by RTH10260 »

Addie
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#255

Post by Addie »

Wait. Whut? :confused:
New York Times

Trump Targets Anti-Semitism and Israeli Boycotts on College Campuses

The president’s order would allow the government to withhold money from campuses deemed to be biased, but critics see it as an attack on free speech.


WASHINGTON — President Trump plans to sign an executive order on Wednesday targeting what he sees as anti-Semitism on college campuses by threatening to withhold federal money from educational institutions that fail to combat discrimination, three administration officials said on Tuesday.

The order will effectively interpret Judaism as a race or nationality, not just a religion, to prompt a federal law penalizing colleges and universities deemed to be shirking their responsibility to foster an open climate for minority students. In recent years, the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions — or B.D.S. — movement against Israel has roiled some campuses, leaving some Jewish students feeling unwelcome or attacked.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#256

Post by Slim Cognito »

Addie wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:49 pm Wait. Whut? :confused:
New York Times

Trump Targets Anti-Semitism and Israeli Boycotts on College Campuses

The president’s order would allow the government to withhold money from campuses deemed to be biased, but critics see it as an attack on free speech.


WASHINGTON — President Trump plans to sign an executive order on Wednesday targeting what he sees as anti-Semitism on college campuses by threatening to withhold federal money from educational institutions that fail to combat discrimination, three administration officials said on Tuesday.

The order will effectively interpret Judaism as a race or nationality, not just a religion, to prompt a federal law penalizing colleges and universities deemed to be shirking their responsibility to foster an open climate for minority students. In recent years, the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions — or B.D.S. — movement against Israel has roiled some campuses, leaving some Jewish students feeling unwelcome or attacked.
If Judaism is labeled a nationality, how long before Jews are told to go back where they came from?

And if that's already happening, apologies for my naivete. Raised as a white, middle class, protestant female, I've been sheltered from almost all of this.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#257

Post by RVInit »

Too many people confuse BDS with anti-Semitism. I think it's perfectly legitimate to criticize or even despise Israeli government policy. That doesn't mean I dislike anyone who is Jewish.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#258

Post by Flatpointhigh »

Slim Cognito wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:56 pm
Addie wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:49 pm Wait. Whut? :confused:
New York Times

Trump Targets Anti-Semitism and Israeli Boycotts on College Campuses

The president’s order would allow the government to withhold money from campuses deemed to be biased, but critics see it as an attack on free speech.


WASHINGTON — President Trump plans to sign an executive order on Wednesday targeting what he sees as anti-Semitism on college campuses by threatening to withhold federal money from educational institutions that fail to combat discrimination, three administration officials said on Tuesday.

The order will effectively interpret Judaism as a race or nationality, not just a religion, to prompt a federal law penalizing colleges and universities deemed to be shirking their responsibility to foster an open climate for minority students. In recent years, the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions — or B.D.S. — movement against Israel has roiled some campuses, leaving some Jewish students feeling unwelcome or attacked.
If Judaism is labeled a nationality, how long before Jews are told to go back where they came from?

And if that's already happening, apologies for my naivete. Raised as a white, middle class, protestant female, I've been sheltered from almost all of this.
We've been called a "nationality" for centuries - it's the origin of the "dual-loyalty" trope. :jew" is the Roman pejorative for "Judean"
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#259

Post by Slim Cognito »

Flatpointhigh wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:23 am
We've been called a "nationality" for centuries - it's the origin of the "dual-loyalty" trope. :jew" is the Roman pejorative for "Judean"
Ty
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#260

Post by Jeffrey »

So why did no one realize this was a horrible idea?
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#261

Post by voxpopuluxe »

Jeffrey wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:29 am So why did no one realize this was a horrible idea?
pretty sure the horror is considered a feature, not a bug
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#262

Post by Addie »

Slate
No, the Trump Administration Is Not Redefining Judaism as a Nationality

Its executive order on anti-Semitism won’t change much at all.


... The text of the order, which leaked on Wednesday, does not redefine Judaism as a race or nationality. It does not claim that Jews are a nation or a different race. The order’s interpretation of Title VI—insofar as the law applies to Jews—is entirely in line with the Obama administration’s approach. It only deviates from past practice by suggesting that harsh criticism of Israel—specifically, the notion that it is “a racist endeavor”—may be used as evidence to prove anti-Semitic intent. There is good reason, however, to doubt that the order can actually be used to suppress non-bigoted disapproval of Israel on college campuses. ...

In a 2004 policy statement, Kenneth L. Marcus—then–deputy assistant secretary for enforcement at the Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights—answered that question. “Groups that face discrimination on the basis of shared ethnic characteristics,” Marcus wrote, “may not be denied the protection” under Title VI “on the ground that they also share a common faith.” Put differently, people who face discrimination because of their perceived ethnicity do not lose protection because of their religion. The Office of Civil Rights, Marcus continued, “will exercise its jurisdiction to enforce the Title VI prohibition against national origin discrimination, regardless of whether the groups targeted for discrimination also exhibit religious characteristics. Thus, for example, OCR aggressively investigates alleged race or ethnic harassment against Arab Muslim, Sikh and Jewish students.”

On Wednesday, I asked [Tom] Perez’s former principal deputy, Sam Bagenstos—now a professor at University of Michigan Law School—whether he felt this reasoning equated any religious group of a nationality or race. “The key point we were making,” he told me, “is that sometimes discrimination against Jews, Muslims, and others is based on a perception of shared race, ethnicity, or national origin, and in those cases it’s appropriate to think of that discrimination as race or national origin discrimination as well as religious discrimination. It doesn’t mean that the government is saying that the group is a racial or national group. The government is saying that the discrimination is based on the discriminator’s perception of race or national origin. That’s a very different matter from saying that anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian speech constitutes discrimination.”

Trump’s EO does not deviate from this understanding of the overlap between discrimination on the basis of race or nationality and discrimination against religion. It only changes the law insofar as it expands the definition of anti-Semitism that may run afoul of Title VI. In assessing potential violations, the order directs executive agencies to look to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s definition—chiefly “hatred toward Jews” directed at individuals, their property, their “community institutions and religious facilities.”

Agencies must also refer to the IHRA’s “Contemporary Examples of Anti-Semitism.” That list contains a number of obvious, unobjectionable examples. But it also includes two more controversial examples: “Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor,” and “Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.” To the extent that anyone is alarmed by Wednesday’s order, these examples should be the focus of their concern. A tendentious reading of this rule could theoretically get students in trouble for severe condemnation of Israeli policy, even when it does not cross the line into a condemnation of Jews.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#263

Post by Addie »

New York Times Editorial
Trump’s Executive Order and the Rise of Anti-Semitism

The president’s campus intervention ignores the bigger threat of anti-Semitism and threatens speech. ...


The tides of anti-Semitism continue to rise higher, and more government action is sorely needed. The Department of Homeland Security’s recent strategy shift to focus on the growing threat of white nationalist terrorism was an important step. On Wednesday, President Trump stepped in himself — but he did as much to stir the waters as he did to settle them.

Mr. Trump signed an executive order to combat anti-Semitism on college campuses by using Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to withhold federal money from schools that fail to counter discrimination against Jews. Similar congressional legislation has had bipartisan support, and previous administrations, both Democratic and Republican, have taken similar actions to prevent hate and discrimination.

While Mr. Trump’s action might seem like a gesture of real concern, it does little to target the larger source of violent anti-Semitism in America and possibly threatens free speech rights. ...

Such incidents are frightening. But the larger threat to American Jews goes beyond college students sparring over Israeli policy. Violent anti-Semitism is being fomented most significantly by white nationalists and the far right. ...

Mr. Trump’s executive order points agencies to the definition of anti-Semitism prepared by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. This definition includes several examples of speech that should be covered by the First Amendment, like “claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.” For this reason Kenneth Stern, the lead author of the definition, wrote in The Times that it shouldn’t be applied to higher education. The agency’s definition was prepared for data collectors writing reports in Europe, not for government officials policing campus speech.
Adding:
Newsweek: Jewish Groups Accuse Trump of Anti-Semitism Over 'Horrifying' Plan to Define Judaism As a Nationality
Daily Beast: Nationalists Are Murdering Jews. Trump Is Targeting Campus Activists.

College sophomores boycotting hummus are not who we need to worry about.
Adding:
New York Times OpEd : Jared Kushner: President Trump Is Defending Jewish Students

With an executive order, he makes clear that anti-Semitism is not to be tolerated.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#264

Post by Addie »

WaPo - Michael Brenner
Why President Trump’s executive order to fight anti-Semitism is dangerous for Jews

When Jewishness has been defined as a nationality or race, it has enabled persecution.


News of President Trump’s recent executive order to combat anti-Semitism on college campuses set off a firestorm online. To use Title VI of the Civil Rights Act to fight discrimination against Jews, Jews would have to be defined under that law as a nationality or a race, since Title VI does not address discrimination against religious groups.

But the vast majority of Jews in the United States do not see themselves as a separate nationality or a race. In most polls, they describe their Jewishness as a cultural or religious identity, or simply as a matter of heritage, while their nationality is American.

The announcement of Trump’s policy change echoes older debates about Jewish identity over the past 250 years — which is why the first reports of the executive order sparked such controversy. The accusation that Jews have not been devoted to the countries in which they live but rather have different national loyalties instead of or in addition to their formal citizenship is an age-old anti-Semitic trope. It was often used to deny Jews full rights and privileges in their respective countries of residence and opens up a question of Jewish belonging that the United States has not seen before — a scary proposition for American Jews.

Until the late 18th century, the definition of what Jews were did not matter much, because they were marginalized and not recognized as part of the broader societies where they lived, whether in Europe or the Middle East. They had lived as a largely autonomous group in society and were seen simultaneously as a religion and a nation of their own.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#265

Post by Flatpointhigh »

Addie wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 pm WaPo - Michael Brenner
Why President Trump’s executive order to fight anti-Semitism is dangerous for Jews

When Jewishness has been defined as a nationality or race, it has enabled persecution.


News of President Trump’s recent executive order to combat anti-Semitism on college campuses set off a firestorm online. To use Title VI of the Civil Rights Act to fight discrimination against Jews, Jews would have to be defined under that law as a nationality or a race, since Title VI does not address discrimination against religious groups.

But the vast majority of Jews in the United States do not see themselves as a separate nationality or a race. In most polls, they describe their Jewishness as a cultural or religious identity, or simply as a matter of heritage, while their nationality is American.

The announcement of Trump’s policy change echoes older debates about Jewish identity over the past 250 years — which is why the first reports of the executive order sparked such controversy. The accusation that Jews have not been devoted to the countries in which they live but rather have different national loyalties instead of or in addition to their formal citizenship is an age-old anti-Semitic trope. It was often used to deny Jews full rights and privileges in their respective countries of residence and opens up a question of Jewish belonging that the United States has not seen before — a scary proposition for American Jews.

Until the late 18th century, the definition of what Jews were did not matter much, because they were marginalized and not recognized as part of the broader societies where they lived, whether in Europe or the Middle East. They had lived as a largely autonomous group in society and were seen simultaneously as a religion and a nation of their own.
So, after nearly 30 years of being labeled "White" by the Govt, thWimp has "declared" me non-White.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#266

Post by Jeffrey »

I'm getting crossed messages here over whether or not Trump is declaring Jews as a nationality.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#267

Post by Flatpointhigh »

Jeffrey wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:56 am I'm getting crossed messages here over whether or not Trump is declaring Jews as a nationality.
He is. In 1979, Jews were declared "white" for our "protection"
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#268

Post by Jeffrey »

But the Slate.com article says he isn’t.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#269

Post by fierceredpanda »

Meanwhile, I'm curious as to this Agence-France story (reprinted on Rawstory) about Reinhard Heydrich's grave being opened up in Berlin. Is it a neo-Nazi trying to pay their sick respects, or a little bit of anti-Nazi retribution for the recent defacing of Jewish graves in Europe? I suspect the latter, but apparently the German authorities wants to charge whoever was responsible. Humbug to that, I say. Why a mass murdering psychopath like Heydrich even has a marked grave to begin with is a question that is very much worth asking. All it's good for is a shrine around which his "admirers" can gather anyway.

I hope whoever did it had some good fun with Heydrich's remains. I don't believe in a literal Hell, but I would be willing to make an exception in his case.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#270

Post by Addie »

You get to make up your own mind by reading differing viewpoints.
Jeffrey wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:33 am But the Slate.com article says he isn’t.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#271

Post by Panch Villlain »

Addie wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:51 am You get to make up your own mind by reading differing viewpoints.
Jeffrey wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:33 am But the Slate.com article says he isn’t.
The NJT and Slate report different facts and not viewpoints.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#272

Post by neeneko »

Jeffrey wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:56 am I'm getting crossed messages here over whether or not Trump is declaring Jews as a nationality.
I tried reading through the piece, and I can see why the message is so mixed. The order itself doesn't seem to actually DO anything. It starts by outlining how religions are not protected, but nationalities and race are, then jumps straight to talking about definitions of anti-semitism. It reads like there should be some middle section tieing the two points together, but there isn't one. So people are scrambling to figure out what it actually means. The best I can figure is it does not do squat legally, but gives a bit of cover for administrators who want to crack down on BDS and want a 'well, I was trying to implement this confusingly worded recommendation!' rationalization.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#273

Post by Addie »

Much better answer than I gave. ty :thumbs:
neeneko wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:03 pm
Jeffrey wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:56 am I'm getting crossed messages here over whether or not Trump is declaring Jews as a nationality.
I tried reading through the piece, and I can see why the message is so mixed. The order itself doesn't seem to actually DO anything. It starts by outlining how religions are not protected, but nationalities and race are, then jumps straight to talking about definitions of anti-semitism. It reads like there should be some middle section tieing the two points together, but there isn't one. So people are scrambling to figure out what it actually means. The best I can figure is it does not do squat legally, but gives a bit of cover for administrators who want to crack down on BDS and want a 'well, I was trying to implement this confusingly worded recommendation!' rationalization.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#274

Post by Fortinbras »

Anything official that designates American Jews as a nationality other than American or a race other than caucasian raises the possibility of further aggravating antisemitism. Such would be an official recognition and endorsement of the bigots' contention that Jews are not real Americans or are a race apart.
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Re: Anti-Semitism Everywhere

#275

Post by Jeffrey »

It also invites comparisons to the Nuremberg laws, which makes any such proposal political suicide.
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