The Weight-Management Thread

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p0rtia
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The Weight-Management Thread

#1

Post by p0rtia » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:09 am

Okay, since I've spent the last hour replying to weight-management-related posts in other threads, I will bite the bullet and start this as a new topic. IME around the Internet, such threads are great for both support (cause of the need for focus when actively working on weight management) and knowledge-sharing/fantasy-debunking (and I have no doubt that the Fogbow will be particularly useful here).

I'm sticking in this in Science and Tech because that's where the Diabetes thread is. But as I am fond of saying, we are in the pre-Capernican age of weight management, and there is much more voodoo and pop-pscyhology around than science.

So where to start? More for its willingness to ask questions rather than any desire to narrow the focus of this thread to low carb, how about with the NY Times article that shook up the norms of weight-management in 2002:

What If It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?
[R]esearchers point out that there are plenty of reasons to suggest that the low-fat-is-good-health hypothesis has now effectively failed the test of time. In particular, that we are in the midst of an obesity epidemic that started around the early 1980's, and that this was coincident with the rise of the low-fat dogma. (Type 2 diabetes, the most common form of the disease, also rose significantly through this period.) They say that low-fat weight-loss diets have proved in clinical trials and real life to be dismal failures, and that on top of it all, the percentage of fat in the American diet has been decreasing for two decades. Our cholesterol levels have been declining, and we have been smoking less, and yet the incidence of heart disease has not declined as would be expected. ''That is very disconcerting,'' Willett says. ''It suggests that something else bad is happening.''


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#2

Post by Lani » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:02 am

I did some research on the current thoughts about low carb/high fat diets. It's not the horror it was once considered to be, although some articles accepted lc/hf as a good diet for some while damning the (lc/hf) Atkins diet. Go figure....

Anyway, I stumbled across a diet that was new to me - the MIND Diet. Intriguing. Wikipedia has an informative article with lots of research for follow up.
The Mediterranean-DASH Intervention for Neurodegenerative Delay diet, or more commonly, the MIND diet, combines the portions of the DASH (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) diet and the Mediterranean diet.[1] Both the DASH diet and the Mediterranean diet have been shown to improve cognition; however, neither were developed to slow neurodegeneration (e.g. Alzheimer's disease).[2] Therefore, a team at Rush University Medical Center, headed by Martha Clare Morris (a nutritional epidemiologist), worked to create the MIND diet.[3] Like the DASH and Mediterranean diets, the MIND diet emphasizes the intake of fresh fruit, vegetables, and legumes.[4] The MIND diet also includes recommendations for specific foods, like leafy greens and berries, that have been scientifically shown to slow cognitive decline.[3] Recent research has shown that the MIND diet is more effective at reducing cognitive decline than either the Mediterranean or DASH diets alone.[3] Additional testing has shown that the level of adherence to the MIND diet also impacts the diet's neuro-protective effects.[5]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIND_diet

It's not a weightloss diet, but that can happen due to restrictions on pastries, sweets, fried food and fast food.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#3

Post by listeme » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:26 am

I frequently run across articles/presentations re: socioeconomic factors in obesity -- this an okay place for those when I see them?


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#4

Post by Foggy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:48 pm

... fresh fruit, vegetables, and legumes.
Wait, aren't legumes vegetables? Is that really a separate category? :think: :confused:


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#5

Post by Foggy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:07 pm

listeme wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:26 am
I frequently run across articles/presentations re: socioeconomic factors in obesity -- this an okay place for those when I see them?
Can't see why not. I mean, we all know that eating at McDonald's will make you obese, but McDonald's food is actually pretty expensive, compared to buying fruits, vegetables, legumes (if they're a separate category) and even the less expensive meats, like chicken and pork (I think there are more hogs in North Carolina than people, and pork is amazingly cheap here). If you're poor, how do you afford to eat there?

Honestly, if you take your wife and two kids to McDonald's and you all get sandwiches or burgers, fries and a drink, you just spent $30 to $40. Ask me how I know (I don't eat McDonald's food). And if you give me $30 and turn me loose in a supermarket, I am going to cook a fabulous meal for four people, infinitely more healthy and delicious than what you just ate at McDonald's. And then I'm gonna put the other $10 or $15 in my wallet. :blink:

With my meal, somebody has to cook and clean up after. And there might be leftovers. If you're working poor, you may not have the time and energy to go shopping, cook a healthy meal for your fambly, and clean up your kitchen. But maybe you can teach your kids how to shop and cook.

'Course, if you decide you can't do all the work, or you don't have the time, and you just say fuck it, we'll go to the Golden Arches, then you're gonna spend too much money and you're gonna stay poor.

And obese. :towel:


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#6

Post by MN-Skeptic » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:21 pm

Foggy wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:07 pm
'Course, if you decide you can't do all the work, or you don't have the time, and you just say fuck it, we'll go to the Golden Arches, then you're gonna spend too much money and you're gonna stay poor.

And obese. :towel:
Nope.

Eight years ago I lost 70 pounds. Actually, I've kept 54 pounds off since then.

Because I used to work long hours and my husband's hours could be equally erratic, I never got in the habit of making meals, especially if the weather was nice and it was easy to eat out. When I decided to get serious about losing weight, I did not - all of a sudden - start cooking at home. I just started making better choices at the restaurants we ate at. I've eaten a lot of McDonald's salads with grilled chicken and balsamic vinaigrette dressing. You can make good choices at a lot of restaurants, and you can take part of the meal home for the next day too.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#7

Post by Lani » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:02 pm

For Foggie :)
Legumes are agricultural plants that contain nitrogen-fixing bacteria. Legumes, such as alfafa and beans, are frequently called vegetables, but true vegetables lack the bacteria characteristic of legumes. Other legumes include peas, lentils, soybeans, peas, carob and mesquite.
https://www.reference.com/food/differen ... d153110937


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#8

Post by Orlylicious » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:49 pm

That's terrific MN, congratulations! I lost 50 a few years back... there's a great plan called Personal Trainer Food out of Texas... all the paleo food is in microwave steamer bags. From omelettes to delicious entrees, it's a terrific system and learned that a lot we've heard is wrong.
How is Personal Trainer Food different from other weight loss meals programs?
It's real food for real life
Personal Trainer Food delivers real, healthy weight loss meals that unleash your metabolism so you can burn fat quickly and naturally. Many of our customers have tried other weight loss meal plans that didn’t work. Even if they lost weight, they put it right back on, and then some.

That's the Personal Trainer Food difference; other diet delivery companies skimp on real protein and add cheap starchy fillers like rice, pasta, and potatoes instead. We'll never do that, because starchy fillers have been shown to trigger overeating and fat storage.

It's a proven fact: the only way to lose weight and keep it off is to eat real foods. That's why we fill every box of Personal Trainer Food with meats, eggs, cheese, nuts, and veggies. These foods are similar to what we ate 50-60 years ago, before there was an obesity crisis in America. They are proven to naturally burn fat.

No fake meal replacements, no processed sugars and starches. Our commitment to you: Personal Trainer Food only delivers real, perfectly-prepared restaurant-quality foods that will lead you to long-term weight loss success.
Lots of Q&As here: https://www.personaltrainerfood.com/faqs.php

Background: https://www.personaltrainerfood.com/how ... s-work.php

Main site: https://www.personaltrainerfood.com/

They often have sales they email about so it's worth it to subscribe, right now it's 50% off which makes it cheaper than fast food.

If you just follow this, you WILL lose weight --


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#9

Post by Foggy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:11 pm

MN-Skeptic wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:21 pm
When I decided to get serious about losing weight, I did not - all of a sudden - start cooking at home. I just started making better choices at the restaurants we ate at. I've eaten a lot of McDonald's salads with grilled chicken and balsamic vinaigrette dressing. You can make good choices at a lot of restaurants, and you can take part of the meal home for the next day too.
OK, that's awesome. I forgot about the salads at McDonald's, because I avoid it like the plague. But I usually order salads if I do get hornswoggled into eating at a fast-food restaurant.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#10

Post by Foggy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:13 pm

Lani wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:02 pm
For Foggie :)
Legumes are agricultural plants that contain nitrogen-fixing bacteria. Legumes, such as alfafa and beans, are frequently called vegetables, but true vegetables lack the bacteria characteristic of legumes. Other legumes include peas, lentils, soybeans, peas, carob and mesquite.
https://www.reference.com/food/differen ... d153110937
Ahh, OK, I get it now. Are peanuts legumes? I know they're not really nuts and I thought they're in the bean family.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#11

Post by RoadScholar » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:26 pm

I saw an article (Huffington Post?) about healthy choices at fast food joints. They looked at nutrition, calories, fats, carbs, and taste. And guess what?

McDonalds’ grilled chicken salad was at the top of the list.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#12

Post by neonzx » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:29 pm

Foggy wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:11 pm
OK, that's awesome. I forgot about the salads at McDonald's, because I avoid it like the plague. But I usually order salads if I do get hornswoggled into eating at a fast-food restaurant.
The salads at fast food places are decent (and if you add chicken, grilled not 'crispy'). The mistake many make is their dressing choice, which can negate any positives of a salad.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#13

Post by Lani » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:35 pm

Foggy wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:13 pm
:snippity: :snippity:
Ahh, OK, I get it now. Are peanuts legumes? I know they're not really nuts and I thought they're in the bean family.
Peanuts are legumes. Almonds, cashews, walnuts, pistachios, macadamia nuts and Brazil nuts are seeds. Hazelnuts, acorns and pecans are nuts.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#14

Post by listeme » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:37 pm

Honestly, if you take your wife and two kids to McDonald's and you all get sandwiches or burgers, fries and a drink, you just spent $30 to $40. Ask me how I know (I don't eat McDonald's food). And if you give me $30 and turn me loose in a supermarket, I am going to cook a fabulous meal for four people, infinitely more healthy and delicious than what you just ate at McDonald's. And then I'm gonna put the other $10 or $15 in my wallet.
I mean, that assumes a lot of things. That you have a two-parent family. That you have TIME. That you are not in a food desert. That your family isn't in crisis. That you have electricity/running water. That you have access to a clean kitchen.

I hadn't even put any links in yet, about McDonalds or otherwise.

This is a real thing!


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#15

Post by DrIrvingFinegarten » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:43 pm

I've found this article to be quite helpful.

http://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/

The key is being in a calorie deficit.

There was a professor at Kansas State who did a Twinkie diet, who lost 27 pounds and improved his bloodwork. He doesn't recommend people do this, but it shows that as long as you're in a deficit, you can eat what you want within reason.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/tw ... index.html



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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#16

Post by listeme » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:01 pm

I feel like the calorie deficit thing is both obvious and insufficient? Like death is when the brain ceases, but that's not the CAUSE. We don't say "just keep your brain on!"

Anyway, in the spirit of cooperation :blink: I will say that I like the mediterranean diet approach for my house, and thinking of food in terms of the fuel I need. I'm a bit on the squarer side than I used to be but I can tote 50 pound bags of grain easy and I get a lot of sleep. I can't STAND the no-sugar diet because I turn into a tornado of mean wrath.

I take one beta blocker every night and I keep my cholesterol barely in range. I'm going to be 53 on Wednesday.

When I see studies, I'll link 'em here.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#17

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:08 pm

You can put five people with the same BMI and put them on the exact same diet and activity regimen and they will differ somewhat in their ability to loose weight over time if intake is reduced. But, I'm sorry for the seeming over-simplification, if you consume more calories and fat than your body needs or uses, your body will store it for you. If you don't, your body will use it as fuel.

The laws of physics actually do apply no matter what fad is currently being promoted, often for monetary gain.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#18

Post by Sluffy1 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:19 pm

The key is being in a calorie deficit.
:yeah:
Exactly. I what I like, just not much of it... and has gotten less as I've aged.



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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#19

Post by Lani » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:27 pm

DrIrvingFinegarten wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:43 pm
I've found this article to be quite helpful.

http://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/

The key is being in a calorie deficit.

There was a professor at Kansas State who did a Twinkie diet, who lost 27 pounds and improved his bloodwork. He doesn't recommend people do this, but it shows that as long as you're in a deficit, you can eat what you want within reason.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/tw ... index.html
Thanks for the articles. I really enjoyed "The Best Fat Loss Article on the Internet"! As a worshiper of well made coffee, this was my favorite comment - "Coffee has great appetite suppressant effects and has also been shown to improve health. Is there anything coffee can’t do? No, it’s basically Jesus in a cup." :thumbs:


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#20

Post by neonzx » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:30 pm

Excess coffee consumption put me in the hospital a couple years ago. So no. Not a miracle cure.
Lani wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:27 pm
DrIrvingFinegarten wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:43 pm
I've found this article to be quite helpful.

http://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/

The key is being in a calorie deficit.

There was a professor at Kansas State who did a Twinkie diet, who lost 27 pounds and improved his bloodwork. He doesn't recommend people do this, but it shows that as long as you're in a deficit, you can eat what you want within reason.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/tw ... index.html
Thanks for the articles. I really enjoyed "The Best Fat Loss Article on the Internet"! As a worshiper of well made coffee, this was my favorite comment - "Coffee has great appetite suppressant effects and has also been shown to improve health. Is there anything coffee can’t do? No, it’s basically Jesus in a cup." :thumbs:


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#21

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:37 pm

listeme wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:37 pm
Honestly, if you take your wife and two kids to McDonald's and you all get sandwiches or burgers, fries and a drink, you just spent $30 to $40. Ask me how I know (I don't eat McDonald's food). And if you give me $30 and turn me loose in a supermarket, I am going to cook a fabulous meal for four people, infinitely more healthy and delicious than what you just ate at McDonald's. And then I'm gonna put the other $10 or $15 in my wallet.
I mean, that assumes a lot of things. That you have a two-parent family. That you have TIME. That you are not in a food desert. That your family isn't in crisis. That you have electricity/running water. That you have access to a clean kitchen.

I hadn't even put any links in yet, about McDonalds or otherwise.

This is a real thing!
Yes it is, and anyone implying that it's easy to avoid fast (or processed) food in favor of cooked and healthy, is just compounding the problem.

You may think you're able to cook a healthy home cooked meal for 4 for $30, but are you factoring in all of the ingredients you don't have to purchase? Salt, flour, oil, butter, seasonings, condiments, milk....basically anything you grab out of the fridge or pantry. For many, many people trapped in fast food hell, there is no pantry to grab from, so everything they cook has additional costs. You can't buy 2 eggs, or 2 servings of butter, or a cup of oil, you have to buy the whole thing, and the smaller the container, the higher the price. To get the best price, you generally have to buy the larger sizes, and in a whole hell of a lot of places in the US, people with no vehicles are stuck in food deserts, so anything they buy has to be transported home on the bus and usually some amount of walking on both ends of the bus route, carrying those bags of groceries.

A McDonald's Quarter Pounder meal is $5.99.
Hamburger with cheese, onion, pickle, ketchup, mustard, sesame seed bun. French fries, soft drink.
You can bring the total up to $28 if you add 4 apple pies.

Current Kroger prices for hamburger, fries and soft drink.
1 lb store brand, 73% lean hamburger chub, on sale $3.29
Kroger brand sliced American cheese $4.19/lb, or Kraft singles 12 oz, $3.00
Yellow onions about 45 cents each, or a 3# bag for $1.79
Cheapest jar of hamburger dills $1.69, but you have to buy a 16 oz jar
Kroger brand ketchup $1.00
Kroger brand yellow mustard $0.79
Kroger brand sesame seed hamburger buns $1.59
2# bag Kroger brand frozen fries $1.79
Oil to fry the French fries in, Kroger brand 32 oz $1.77
Salt $1.00
Pepper $1.00
2 liter Coke $1.65
Hostess apple pies $2.99
Add another $1.50 or so for sales tax and you're pretty close to $22.00 total without the pies, $25 with.

Less than $5.00 difference in the McDonald's meal and cooked at home meal, but at least an hour in time saved cooking and cleaning up, plus whatever time is involved in traipsing back and forth on the bus to make groceries to begin with. That one hour of cooking time for a working single mother with kids can be a make or break 60 minute interval in her day. She still has house work, kids homework, paying bills, all the minutia of daily life to handle in the little bit of time she has in the evenings. It's easy for me to see why Mickey D's might be a better choice in her mind.

I'm very fortunate to have 5 different stores within about a 1 mile radius to make groceries at, but that is definitely not the norm, even in my own town.



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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#22

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:43 pm

Lani wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:27 pm
DrIrvingFinegarten wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:43 pm
I've found this article to be quite helpful.

http://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/

The key is being in a calorie deficit.

There was a professor at Kansas State who did a Twinkie diet, who lost 27 pounds and improved his bloodwork. He doesn't recommend people do this, but it shows that as long as you're in a deficit, you can eat what you want within reason.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/tw ... index.html
Thanks for the articles. I really enjoyed "The Best Fat Loss Article on the Internet"! As a worshiper of well made coffee, this was my favorite comment - "Coffee has great appetite suppressant effects and has also been shown to improve health. Is there anything coffee can’t do? No, it’s basically Jesus in a cup." :thumbs:
And don't forget the coffee enemas! They seem to be a big thing with desperate cancer patients.



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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#23

Post by Lani » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:59 pm

In retrospect, maybe I should have mentioned that the writer is very snarky and has a potty mouth? :think: He in no way promoted coffee enemas or miracle cures - he just really likes his coffee.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#24

Post by MN-Skeptic » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:14 pm

And, of course, the best diet is the one that works for YOU long term. By all means, check out the various diets... one of them might work perfectly for you. But if one doesn't work, try another.

For me, I mostly had to make sure I didn't keep chips and chocolate around the house. I was a champion snacker. And I had to make better choices at restaurants. I also got in the habit of cutting up an apple or an orange to share with my husband each evening. That kept me from snacking on the things I should avoid. I also snacked on a small number of nuts at times. You don't need a lot to take the edge off your appetite.

Consider a diet app. That's working for my sister-in-law. Last year her doctor told her that she should seriously consider bariatric surgery. That's something she did NOT want to do, so she did some research and found a diet app which got good reviews. I wish I could remember the name of it. She records everything she eats in the app. It's working for her - she's lost quite a bit of weight so far.


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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#25

Post by Orlylicious » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:18 pm

Interestingly, PTF says only use full fat dressings like Hidden Valley Ranch, mayo, etc. Works for me! On condiments, PTF says look for less than 2 grams of sugar and 2 grams of carbs per serving, they aren't as concerned about fat. Bacon is allowed too. So a salad with lunchmeat, bacon and spicy ranch is all OK. It's really not what we were taught, but gotta tell you, it works. When you cheat, they say it takes 3 days+ to start losing weight again. So if I can stay away from bread, croutons, alcohol and chocolate, I'm golden. After I hit goal, a couple squares of dark chocolate didn't make a difference, but to do it right it takes going back to real food, meat and non starch veggies.


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