I have a serious question. need legal help please

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sad-cafe
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I have a serious question. need legal help please

#1

Post by sad-cafe » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:55 pm

My daughter and her new hubby are having issues.

I guess a couple weeks ago they were fighting --she dinged her car and didn't get a chance to tell him before he found out from someone else. I dont' know the details but apparently caused a huge row. She told him he was pretty mad and she said she would talk with him later and he told her she was not dismissed. She got pissed and turned to go downstairs and he grabbed her arms to get her to stay. She told him to let her the fuck to-he did and called her a bitch.

She is always strong willed and was spoiled so I am sure she had her choice of words as well.


a month later she told him she wants a divorce. She is saying he hurt her and she is scared of him.



I have always been an advocate for abused women but I don't see it here. Am I wrong?

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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#2

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:06 pm

I believe grabbing her arms may have been an assault. As I have advised others here who have asked, perhaps the best thing at this point is a family counselor rather than a lawyer. But if her husband laid his hands on her, that's a serious breach in my view.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#3

Post by pipistrelle » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:07 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:I believe grabbing her arms may have been an assault. As I have advised others here who have asked, perhaps the best thing at this point is a family counselor rather than a lawyer. But if her husband laid his hands on her, that's a serious breach in my view.
IANAL but physical restraint of any kind in a verbal spat is very troubling.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#4

Post by Azastan » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:13 pm

Why do you not see this as assault? Just because your daughter is 'strong-willed', that does not mean that her husband has the right to grab her arm and keep her from leaving. Does she need to have a broken arm before you would call it abuse?

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#5

Post by TollandRCR » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:14 pm

IANAL There may have been other encounters that nobody has discussed with you. If not, IMHO the answer to your question is NO.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#6

Post by P.K. » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:18 pm

Azastan wrote:Why do you not see this as assault? Just because your daughter is 'strong-willed', that does not mean that her husband has the right to grab her arm and keep her from leaving. Does she need to have a broken arm before you would call it abuse?
Yeah, this.

And if any man in my life had tried to tell me "You are not dismissed" - I'm not sure what I'd have done in the moment, but he sure as hell would have been dismissed from my life shortly thereafter.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#7

Post by Maybenaut » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:35 pm

P.K. wrote:
Azastan wrote:Why do you not see this as assault? Just because your daughter is 'strong-willed', that does not mean that her husband has the right to grab her arm and keep her from leaving. Does she need to have a broken arm before you would call it abuse?
Yeah, this.

And if any man in my life had tried to tell me "You are not dismissed" - I'm not sure what I'd have done in the moment, but he sure as hell would have been dismissed from my life shortly thereafter.
:yeah:
Whether he assaulted her or not, and whether she's afraid of him or not, these things don't get better with time absent serious counselling and a strong desire by both parties to change their behavior.

Having said that, "You're not dismissed" would do it for me, because it reflects an unwarranted assumption of power over the other spouse. In fact, to me that might be worse than a grab if the arm (depending on the nature of the grab, of course).

I've been through this (not with my current spouse :lovestruck: ). It's hard. I'm glad I left before there were any children and I was able to walk away and never have to see or speak with him again.

What she needs from you is support. You don't necessarily have to agree with her, but I wouldn't try to minimuze his behavior or her feelings about it.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#8

Post by Dolly » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:36 pm

Physical abuse
Emotional abuse
Power and control

Those actions are not good for healthy relationships.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#9

Post by SLQ » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:00 am

Dolly wrote:Physical abuse
Emotional abuse
Power and control

Those actions are not good for healthy relationships.
Yes. This. My marriage ended for these reasons. I went to a therapist by myself, due to an Employee Assistance Program, and because he refused to go. I didn't think it was about power and control. I considered myself an independent, strong woman. But I also believed that to make a marriage work, both people (read: me) must compromise and . . . make things work.

After listening to me for an hour describe some of his behavior, the therapist asked me to do something simple: go home and refuse to do something my husband asked me to do. I thought this would be an easy thing because (1) he didn't ask me to do very many things (in my mind), and (2) if I refused, it would not be a big deal. I was wrong. Very wrong. That evening, the phone rang (back in the day when there were land lines). He said, "Hey, can you get the phone?" He was closer. I was busy with one of the kids. I said, "No, I'm busy."

The rest of the evening was not pretty. Although there had been no [real**] physical violence until that point in our marriage, I ended up pinned on the bed, with him screaming at me. He threatened to hit me, though he didn't. I was stunned.

My advice, FWIW: Don't diminish these very real threats. Advise your daughter to get some help.

**After this, I considered some other behavior the precursor to physical violence. I won't get into it here. But it was intended to demean and to invade my personal space.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#10

Post by Chilidog » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:26 am

I've always been of the opinion that there are two sides to every story. However the side that you have been told is troubling to say the least.

I think the key is the "you are not dismissed" line. It is indicative of a real lack of respect for your daughter as a person.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#11

Post by kate520 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:40 am

What you say fits the pattern of abusers being perfect partners until the marriage and then turning, seemingly overnight, into control freaks with scary anger issues. There may not be immediate violence but it's coming. When it does, she can't believe it's the same guy, he abjectly apologizes with promises, All is forgiven...until the next time, and the next and... When it finally explodes in violence he puts the blame on her. :he_made_me: because she's spoiled or strong willed or a bitch or a whore.

There is no excuse.

Your daughter is very wise if she's willing to leave a new marriage over this. It sounds like there may be more than she's telling.

I agree with whoever said you should support her, and while you're at it, can you ask someone to support you right now? You both need a boost and she'll need your strength for a while longer.

:bighug: :bighug: I hope no one ever told you you deserved a whack because you were strong willed. You don't. No one does. That's immature bully talk.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#12

Post by maydijo » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:21 am

I have to agree with the others. Being physically restrained IS scary. I stopped going to church because, when I tried to intervene with a woman who was physically assaulting someone else's child, several people left off what they were doing to come to the defense of the abuser. I was the only one who tried to tell her it was not cool. I had a very small baby in my arms and suddenly found I was surrounded by a bunch of angry people yelling at me. My flight or fight instinct kicked in and I tried to leave, and then someone put their hand on me to stop me. I shook it off and was about to yell when they let go of me. I left and haven't been back since, because I don't feel safe there and I don't feel my children are safe there. From the outside it may not seem like much, but to be kept from leaving to find safety is definitely unpleasant.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#13

Post by RVInit » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:17 am

Ditto what everyone else said. The words "you are not dismissed" are chilling. That is most definitely an example of one person exerting authority over another, and inappropriate in a marriage, intimate relationship or friendship.

And for maydijo - what you describe does not at all sound like a small thing to me. I would have had the same reaction and also would not have put myself in the company of those people again.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#14

Post by Fortinbras » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:25 am

They are recently married and I would not suggest giving up on the marriage just because of one minor league fuss about a car ding.
Grabbing someone by the arm seems very mild in terms of how bad marital disputes can get; I would bet the new husband learns some better manners if given the chance. And your daughter should not play the delicate flower about his hand on her arm.

Encourage your daughter to patch things up with her husband. Quitting on a marriage so quickly, esp on such flimsy reasons, is very unwise.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#15

Post by Whatever4 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:28 am

Fortinbras wrote:They are recently married and I would not suggest giving up on the marriage just because of one minor league fuss about a car ding.
Grabbing someone by the arm seems very mild in terms of how bad marital disputes can get; I would bet the new husband learns some better manners if given the chance. And your daughter should not play the delicate flower about his hand on her arm.

Encourage your daughter to patch things up with her husband. Quitting on a marriage so quickly, esp on such flimsy reasons, is very unwise.

NO. NO. DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE.

This issue has very little to do with the car and everything to do with control. His actions are chilling. At the very least, couples therapy and anger management counseling. She should not accept his behavior. It will escalate unless the couple is retrained in how to settle disputes safely and effectively. .

Of course marital disputes don't start out terrible. They start small and grow. If by "Patching things up" you mean "learning appropriate ways to deal with disputes in a marriage from an outside expert," then I'm OK with that. But she has to draw a line in the gleaming hardwood floor: no touching in anger, no power plays like "you are not dismissed."

This behavior is serious. People die from ignoring this.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#16

Post by mimi » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:05 am

I don't tell much of my own personal history. I'm private like that.

But many years ago, I went with my sister and mother on a three-week trip to California and Hawaii. I flew out of Pittsburgh and when I returned, my now ex-husband was to meet me at my mom's and we would drive back to Virginia.

He came.

That night, on my mom's front porch, he told me he wanted a divorce. He just figured I would fall apart and then he could send my things or whatever. Telling me at my mom's would solve a lot of problems for him.

I figured he was planning a life with another woman.

I did fall apart.

My mother took his side. He told her there wasn't anybody else and she believed him. There was.

He told her that if I didn't 'settle down', he might as well go find somebody else.

I wasn't going to be 'dismissed', so I put my things in my car and said I was going home. He got in the car and we drove back.

Skipping a bunch right here.

My best friend recommended I see a therapist and gave me a name. I had no idea she saw a therapist; she was the most together person I knew.

I got stronger.

But, honestly, I could never get over the fact that my mom's instinct was to take his side. Our relationship changed as well. She did apologize, but only after she found out he was having a thing with an old high school flame. I never put mom out of my life or anything like that. And I moved back home to care for her when the time came. But, that incident never left my memory, as much as I wanted it to.

IMHO, you should just support your daughter. You have no idea all the circumstances, even if you think you do.

And your daughter should seek help from a therapist to help her through this. It would be better to have someone not emotionally involved. Someone who has helped others find the answers.

"She is saying he hurt her and she is scared of him."

Don't dismiss your daughter. She is telling you something, though she may not tell you everything.

I don't have kids though. So I may be wrong about everything.



Also, too, I skipped an awful lot in this story.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#17

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:17 am

There is a lot of wisdom in this thread.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#18

Post by Maybenaut » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:30 am

Mimi!!!!!! :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#19

Post by Foggy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:32 am

That "You are not dismissed" is spooky. I had a lot of long-term girlfriends before I was married, and I can't imagine saying anything like that to a woman for whom I had any respect. Physically assaulting her just makes it worse. But the choice is hers to make.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#20

Post by Mikedunford » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:39 am

My $0.02.

1: One would have to be an industrial-grade ninnyhammer, a true champion in the intergalactic purblind jackass leagues, to believe that this is a fuss about a dinged car.

2: Figuring out how to end an argument is (IMO) one of the toughest parts of marriage. This is particularly true for stubborn control freaks (including me) who have a hard time letting anyone else get the last word in.

3: There are few good ways to end an argument. Physical restraint isn't on that list.

4: I've been married for 20 years. I think that, barring some truly spectacular special circumstances, trying to keep my wife from walking away during an argument would end my marriage.

5: That doesn't necessarily mean that divorce would be an absolute necessity for everyone in such a situation, but it definitely doesn't strike me as either unreasonable or an overreaction.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#21

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:03 am

It's not for YOU to see it or not, that's on HER. If she says she's scared, she's scared. You don't get to decide if that's reasonable, she does. She says she wants a divorce, and again, that's her decision, not yours. Your attitude of trying to make one of them "right" and one "wrong" is no better than his "you're not dismissed." You're minimizing (dismissing) her response to a situation she is in. Regardless of what you think about her reaction, it's still hers and you can't control that.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#22

Post by June bug » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:12 am

Foggy wrote:That "You are not dismissed" is spooky. I had a lot of long-term girlfriends before I was married, and I can't imagine saying anything like that to a woman for whom I had any respect.
FIFY.

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#23

Post by Notorial Dissent » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:18 am

What Mike and Sugar said. Absolutely. This IS NOT a figment of your daughter's imagination and should not be treated as such.
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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#24

Post by Chilidog » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:47 am

Is annulment an option?

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Re: I have a serious question. need legal help please

#25

Post by kate520 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:13 am

My dad used to hit my mom. It started small, I'm sure, but I do know he gave her a bloody lip when she told him she was pregnant with me. "I though we agreed to wait!" Followed quickly by "I'm sorry baby. I won't do it again." But he did. All my life. He wrote her pathetic notes full of excuses, blaming her. Somehow, they used to end up in the glovebox of my car. She never felt she had the wherewithal to leave. Later in my life, a therapist told me he thought my dad was an emotional sadist and she probably should have gone that first time.
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