GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

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magdalen77
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GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#1

Post by magdalen77 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:45 pm

I've been working on the old family tree. I did my AncestryDNA testing back in June 2015. I got a lot of matches, but couldn't find the connection. Mostly due to a family tree that didn't go much further than great-great-grandparents on my best sides and only great-grandparents with the Ukrainians from Galicia, Poland. I started seriously working on the tree after Daddy died as a distraction. And suddenly I started getting new close matches. This didn't have anything to do with the tree, just new people testing. So, I ended up with three new cousins from my parents shared side (my parents are first cousins which probably explains a lot) and another even closer cousin from my paternal grandfather's side. The shared side cousins were a great help since they had done a lot of work on their tree. On one side they were back to 7 times great grandparents, essentially around 1650. The cousin on my Daddy's father's side didn't help the tree, but it still was fun to find a new cousin. In the interim I've managed to get back to 4 times great-grandparents on that side. Which is pretty good since that brings me back to around 1820 Ireland.

Still I was stuck with only the great-grandparents on the Ukrainian side. Enter GEDmatch, Slarti told me about it a while back. I downloaded my raw DNA data. At first it was kind of like Ancestry. Among my high matches were my already discovered second and third cousins. The other high matches I emailed and they responded, but we couldn't figure out the connection. But in the last two weeks, I've found a couple of more Irish matches (the shared side, i.e. half of my ancestry is mostly Irish). And I hooked up with a group of people most of whom are some kind of cousins and the ones who aren't are cousins of my cousins. The shocker is they aren't Ukrainian they are Lemkos aka Carpatho-Rusyns. A group of people who lived in the Carpathian mountains of Eastern European.

So, what's my problem? Well, I did a triangulation and got an enormous report and I have no fricking clue how to analyze it. I suspect my problem is partly how many matches I have at the 4 to 5 MRCA (most recent common ancestor) level. And that's likely due to a lot of endogamy amongst my ancestors. The Irish spent their time in a small area of County Mayo merrily intermarrying and when they came to the U.S. they settled in two small towns in northeast PA and merrily intermarried for the next three generations or so. It appears the Lemkos did the same.

Help me, Obi-wan Slarti, you're my only hope! :pray: :blink:

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Slarti the White
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#2

Post by Slarti the White » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:29 pm

You can just call me Ben.

Okay, this is a big, open-ended request and I just want you to know that you are opening up a major can of worms. If I do this, I'm not just going to tie it together with my own explorations, but too, also, to a use case I want to pitch to a manager at Oracle. This also has legal implications (I'd be very interested to hear any of the IAAL's comments), as, in my case, finding the connection would necessarily include finding at least one of my parents, whom I would otherwise have to contact via a confidential intermediary and a request to the court to allow them access to my adoption information (which I could do at any time, but haven't because procrastination and stuff).

Anyway, let me think about how to proceed (I'm going to want to contact my 4th cousin to get his help) and I'll get back to you when I've figured out a good way to start. PM me about getting me the information so I can find someone to explain what it means to me.

Things are kind of crazy for me right now, so I don't know how quickly this will go, but if I can't help you with this problem then I really shouldn't be trying to get into the business of genomics pipelines. So let's see if we can't put your genetic puzzle together.
:towel:
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#3

Post by dunstvangeet » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:50 pm

I've got to start doing that. I have a pretty good idea of my ancestry going back 3 generations on all sides. I can trace my ancestry back on my American sides of the family to before the Revolutionary war, but I'd love to know more about my Swedish sides to the family (my grandmother was born in Sweden, immigrated here when she was 13-years-old in 1921).

I have enough information that I could literally join the Sons of the American Revolution (DAR has an line that intersects with my line about 5 generations back, so, I'd just have to prove about 4 generations, which I can easily do through census records)

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#4

Post by magdalen77 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:27 am

dunstvangeet wrote:I've got to start doing that. I have a pretty good idea of my ancestry going back 3 generations on all sides. I can trace my ancestry back on my American sides of the family to before the Revolutionary war, but I'd love to know more about my Swedish sides to the family (my grandmother was born in Sweden, immigrated here when she was 13-years-old in 1921).

I have enough information that I could literally join the Sons of the American Revolution (DAR has an line that intersects with my line about 5 generations back, so, I'd just have to prove about 4 generations, which I can easily do through census records)
IDK if Ancestry has a lot of Swedish records, but they should be running specials pretty soon for Christmas and usually they offer some good discounts for memberships. I have the World Explorer (which is what you'd need) and it's normally $149 for 6 months, but they'll take $20 or so off. $129 isn't bad if you think of it as a monthly amount. Like I'm sure I waste $20 or $30 per month on nonsense, why not use it for something I find interesting and relaxing?

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#5

Post by Plutodog » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:36 am

magdalen77 wrote:
dunstvangeet wrote:I've got to start doing that. I have a pretty good idea of my ancestry going back 3 generations on all sides. I can trace my ancestry back on my American sides of the family to before the Revolutionary war, but I'd love to know more about my Swedish sides to the family (my grandmother was born in Sweden, immigrated here when she was 13-years-old in 1921).

I have enough information that I could literally join the Sons of the American Revolution (DAR has an line that intersects with my line about 5 generations back, so, I'd just have to prove about 4 generations, which I can easily do through census records)
IDK if Ancestry has a lot of Swedish records, but they should be running specials pretty soon for Christmas and usually they offer some good discounts for memberships. I have the World Explorer (which is what you'd need) and it's normally $149 for 6 months, but they'll take $20 or so off. $129 isn't bad if you think of it as a monthly amount. Like I'm sure I waste $20 or $30 per month on nonsense, why not use it for something I find interesting and relaxing?
Mebbe you could look up the Plutodog branch of your family starting with me back to about the 1600's :blink:
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#6

Post by magdalen77 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:51 am

Well, I wasn't the one who got it back to 1650, that was my third cousins and they've been doing the tree for 30 years. They also had the benefit of a mother who was a professional genealogist. Though nowadays, with all of the records that are online even amateurs can make a lot of head way. I started doing the man's tree and I got a lot of great information, but as with a lot of African-Americans he has a ginormous wall before 1870. I'm waiting for the Black Friday sales for DNA kits to order them.

The DNA doesn't replace the research, but it does tell you if you're barking up the right tree. In a more personal note, one of the siblings thanked me for getting in touch with them because it helped her confirm that her father was truly her father. She'd had doubts based on something one of her uncles said (who says that to another person?). But there is no other way we could have the DNA relationship we do unless her great-grandfather and my great-great grandfather were brothers.

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#7

Post by MsDaisy » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:08 pm

magdalen77 wrote:I've been working on the old family tree. I did my AncestryDNA testing back in June 2015. I got a lot of matches, but couldn't find the connection.
:snippity:
So, what's my problem? Well, I did a triangulation and got an enormous report and I have no fricking clue how to analyze it.
:snippity:
:pray: :blink:
I had the same problem. I found a 3 cousin who’d been adopted at birth and had no clue who she was or where she came from. I ended up making two Excel spread sheets, one for each of us where I could put both our matches in sortable columns and that really helped. The good news is between us we found both her parents, and it was a very happy day for them all.

Just for my own family I had a terrible time triangulating maternal from paternal connections. My mother’s side was well documented by lots of people including the Patawomeck tribal historian, but all my cousins were all shared matches. I couldn’t find any that didn’t match most or at least some of the others no matter how I sorted the spreadsheets. Then a new match turned up who was confirmed to be the granddaughter of my father’s sister and I thought I’d finally get somewhere, but it turned out that she matched most of my mother’s cousins too.

As few as 50 years ago this was an extremely rural area and most of the folks were poor farmers who never went very far from home, so we had lots of cousins marring cousins from both sides. I did the GEDmatch too and even another one called “Family Tree DNA”

https://www.familytreedna.com/login.aspx

I’m thinking about doing a 23 and Me test too see what else I can find. My greatest discovery and why I did the Ancestry thing in the first place was finding out that my 9 times great grandmother was Pocahontas! For my adopted cousin she was 12 times great grandmother. It was pretty cool for her to go from being an orphan with no history to being a documented direct descendant of an Indian Princess.

But for triangulating, try doing it on a spreadsheet. You can even color code your various matches. It helped me a lot.
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#8

Post by Jez » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:42 pm

I've been working on the family tree as a hobby for 20 years or so now. Started with my Aunt (father's sister). She wanted to get into the DAR, just like her paternal grandmother was, and well started digging and didn't stop. She did hire a professional genealogist, so there is quite a bit of information. I no longer have the source files though, just the tree. Following the available branches, she was able to get back to 1066 and some Norman guy who sailed across the channel for a little vacation and ended up staying for awhile, apparently. (No, not William. Some minor Baron named Geoffrey de Lyons). That is the branch of the family that sailed to the US in 1635 on the Hopewell. Those with my surname showed up in the 1790s, or thereabouts, and settled in SW Pennsylvania.

Mom's family has been a bit problematic. We really don't have much information, though I was able to located the Great Grands immigration paperwork. That had a wealth of information, but can't go back much further. The ships manifest that one part of the family was on was destroyed and is not available, so I cannot find any other records of their crossing.

The brother, father, and I all did the AncestryDNA testing. Sadly, Mom is no longer alive so we do not have her family side, and she had no full siblings. Though I did do the one through NatGeo that plotted the Mitochondrial DNA and it shows Eastern European, just as I thought it would.

I think there might be something interesting on Mom's side, but it could also just be a bunch of Ukranian and Hungarian farmers. The main reason I say it might be interesting is that a maternal great grandmother brought her wedding dress over. It was a dark (almost black, but that could be age too) brocaded silk. Not something a simple farmer from the Ukraine would have. I have no idea what happened to the dress after my Great Aunt Katie passed away. I just remember seeing it.

Dad's side is a bit more accessible. Prior to the DNA testing, I was able to dig up records on the Ancestry website that shows me a direct descendant of Geoffrey Chaucer, which was kinda cool. There is also a familial connection to the Plantagenet line, uncle somewhere I think via the Poole's. I'm just slightly north of 1 billionth in line for the throne. :thumbs:

But, I guess, after years of fantasizing that I am actually a foundling with a normal family out there somewhere was dashed when the DNA came back that I am definitely my father's daughter and my brother is definitely my sibling.

Family trees are fascinating. I could write a short novel on the soap opera that is my father's family, and that is just the last 3 generations.
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#9

Post by magdalen77 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:26 pm

MsDaisy wrote:
magdalen77 wrote:I've been working on the old family tree. I did my AncestryDNA testing back in June 2015. I got a lot of matches, but couldn't find the connection.
:snippity:
So, what's my problem? Well, I did a triangulation and got an enormous report and I have no fricking clue how to analyze it.
:snippity:
:pray: :blink:
I had the same problem. I found a 3 cousin who’d been adopted at birth and had no clue who she was or where she came from. I ended up making two Excel spread sheets, one for each of us where I could put both our matches in sortable columns and that really helped. The good news is between us we found both her parents, and it was a very happy day for them all.

Just for my own family I had a terrible time triangulating maternal from paternal connections. My mother’s side was well documented by lots of people including the Patawomeck tribal historian, but all my cousins were all shared matches. I couldn’t find any that didn’t match most or at least some of the others no matter how I sorted the spreadsheets. Then a new match turned up who was confirmed to be the granddaughter of my father’s sister and I thought I’d finally get somewhere, but it turned out that she matched most of my mother’s cousins too.

As few as 50 years ago this was an extremely rural area and most of the folks were poor farmers who never went very far from home, so we had lots of cousins marring cousins from both sides. I did the GEDmatch too and even another one called “Family Tree DNA”

https://www.familytreedna.com/login.aspx

I’m thinking about doing a 23 and Me test too see what else I can find. My greatest discovery and why I did the Ancestry thing in the first place was finding out that my 9 times great grandmother was Pocahontas! For my adopted cousin she was 12 times great grandmother. It was pretty cool for her to go from being an orphan with no history to being a documented direct descendant of an Indian Princess.

But for triangulating, try doing it on a spreadsheet. You can even color code your various matches. It helped me a lot.
I have them on a spreadsheet. There's something like 12,000 matches. Many, many, many of them are on chromosomes 1 and 2. I'm kind of wondering if both of them have lots of pile up areas. I'm already working with another lady who found a match up for 10 of us on our 8th chromosomes. The cool part of that is there was a class of students in Ballygar, Galway*, Ireland who tested the DNA of a close relative (mostly parents) and one of those folks also match us. Which gives us all hope since they're related at the stage where most of our trees peter out.

On another level I'm wondering if I can get Irish citizenship since it appears half of County Mayo is related to me.

*I know it's Galway not Mayo, but this town is very close to the Mayo and Roscommon borders.

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#10

Post by Lani » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:41 am

I'm getting involved in family genealogy. I got sucked into it because my mom never knew where her father was buried (her mom refused to discuss him), and it saddened her all of her life. He died when she was a toddler. Over 15 years ago, I was in California and realized I wasn't that far from Marysville, where my mom was born. I drove there, spoke with the nice people at the library, found some newspaper items from pre-1920, and checked every grave in the old cemetery. That search was unsuccessful, but very interesting as the survivors of the Donner disaster settled in that town and had some great gravestones!

I occasionally looked for more information, did the freebie on ancestry.com, etc., with no results and gave up years ago. Two days ago, I decided to search again, and I found him on a website that lists graves. Apparently, volunteers across the nation go to cemeteries and document the gravestones. My granddad was buried in a plot with his parents and younger brother. Using their names, I found census records, discovered a daughter of that family as well, and learned that my great grandparents were Irish immigrants. Finally, I found my granddad's death notice in the Sacramento Bee, 1921. I had enough data to know that some of the stories she was told about her dad were true, such as a successful law practice and death by the Spanish flu. However, I also learned that his burial place was in Lodi, where my mom, her mom, and her new stepfather moved in the mid-1930's. Using google, I discovered that she lived 2.5 miles from her dad's grave for several years. :crying:

So I'm hooked. I want to trace my mom's maternal family as well. That family was in California before 1860. From them, I have a law book dated 1858, so lawyers everywhere! :eek2: Supposedly, that family's US presence began with a Hessian who stayed after the revolution, settled in Pennsylvania, then traveled to Cali in the 1850's.

So my questions to you smart, experienced family tracers -

1. Are there good sources for data outside of Ancestry, or is it worthwhile to join and have the whole lot in one place? I'm finding that almost every time I get close to something I'm investigating, I wind up at Ancestry. :madguy:

2. There's also a website with old newspapers and a good search engine. I can see bits of relevant articles, but have to pay & join to see the whole thing. Is there a free service like that? Or is joining such sites and paying for membership the realistic way to go?

3. Anybody in or near Lodi? I'd love photos of those graves. Or can you recommend a service to obtain photos?

4. DNA tests. There are a bunch of them. Is anyone worried about privacy and potential abuse of the information? I hadn't considered that to be a problem until recently when the AHCA included requiring employees to turn over genetic testing to employers who have wellness programs. That indicates to me that genetic records will lose their privacy protections in the future. Also, which tests are the most accurate and detailed? Good and bad experiences?

5. I seem to have ancestors who were members of the Masons, Eastern Star, Rainbow Girls, DAR, SAR, and UDC. (Memo to self: create a family conspiracy theory.) I've visited the websites, but couldn't find much on tracing ancestors. Also the NSGW - a new one to me. Native Sons of the Golden West, which is still around today. It has some old records, but impossible to search and read. (Maybe just my old eyes.) Anyone dealt with those organizations to obtain records?

6. Any tips, recommended websites, spreadsheets, fill in the blank family trees, etc?

My dad's side is much easier to trace - arrived very early in the history of the British colonies & stayed in the same area until the mid 1900's. Court and church records survived the Civil War War of Northern Aggression. Lots of genealogists and historians in that family, so I can use their stuff. (However, I've found some cleansing of the family history.... :shock: :fingerwag: )
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#11

Post by maydijo » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:20 am

My parents have been doing their family history for 50 years. I know quite a bit about the research side of things, because when I was a kid our big family vacation involved going to the LDS Family History Library in Salt Lake and reading microfiche and microfilm. I could load a microfilm machine blind-folded by the age of 4.

So - My biggest tip is to use your local LDS family history library. Every stake will have one and there is absolutely no missionary work done there. The volunteers know their stuff (some more than others) and are very helpful. (Okay, I will admit I'm biased here as my mom was in charge of our stake's family history library for 10 years. She's a genealogy genius.) The LDS church has the biggest collection of records in the world and their stuff is either free or at-cost. They can also hook you up with blank forms (family group sheets, pedigree charts.)

My second biggest tip is to start with what you know, and then to ask people who are older than you. If your parents or grandparents are still alive ask for their memories and stories. They may not remember names or full names but they might remember that "Oh yes, Grandma said she was married in West Virginia," which gives you a place to look. A lot of states have their archives available on-line and you can do at least a cursory search for free, although if you want a more thorough record you'll generally have to pay. (It's usually worth it if you're stuck - marriage records generally record ages, parents' names, etc.)

My third-biggest tip is skip the cemeteries. Seriously, unless your ancestors are very newly dead, you won't find much there. I've been dragged to cemeteries all over the world. You'll very rarely find anything of worth. If you insist on visiting cemeteries, find out where they keep their records and look there first. But honestly, most of us are from peasant stock so the graves are either unmarked, or incredibly faded and impossible to make out, or have been dug up to make room for someone else. Even if you can read it the gravestones themselves have precious little information - usually just name, birth year, and death year. You can get that stuff from the census, marriage records, birth records, death records, etc.

It can also help to brush up on traditions/customs around the world. For instance Scotland has a naming custom. If your ancestors are Scottish and followed the custom, it can make things much easier. The custom is: The first daughter is named after the mother's mother; the first son is named after the father's father; the second daughter is named after the father's mother; and the second son is named after the mother's father. (Please note this tradition doesn't hold for the Orkney Islands which are more heavily influenced by Norwegian tradition. My husband has a line from the Orkney Islands and for several successive generations it's William Irvine married Margaret Randall, with about a dozen different William Irvines and Margaret Randalls all born within about 10 years of each other so you have no idea which William Irvine married which Margaret Randall.)

Keep in mind that no family tree is going to be absolutely perfect. Do what you can do cite your sources and be thorough. (My dad, who is a 5th generation Mormon, had a lot of his family history done by various family members, but it just wasn't right - witness my ancestor who went to fight in the Revolutionary War at the ripe old age of 3. He's spent a lot of time undoing what other people have done. Don't do that to your descendants. They'll likely put a gypsy curse on you.) But, remember that people back then still had affairs - women got pregnant before they were married and didn't always marry the fathers - children were secretly adopted with no records kept - so don't think that what you're ending up with is a 100% accurate picture of your genetic history. It'll be close; but every family has some skeletons.

And that is where the fun comes in: Don't just limit yourself to names and dates. Find the stories! My mom's ancestors were a bunch of crooks. Court records are fascinating. My dad's ancestors were a bunch of toffy rich people, but always through the youngest son who ended up getting disowned for knocking up the scullery maid. (Seriously, ancestors, would it have killed you to keep it in your pants so you had some money to leave me?!?) (Funnily enough a few years back he made this connection linking his family into some old-money Providence family. It took a lot of effort on his part so he wrote up an article about it for some genealogy magazine. The old-money Providence family was scandalised that my retired school teacher dad could possibly think they were related and demanded a DNA test. It's not like my dad was asking for any of the family fortune; it was just a fairly interesting story about how he'd made the connection and he wanted to share it. My dad took the test. He was right and they were wrong.)

I'll stop there for now but if you have any more specific questions feel free to ask. After all genealogy is in my DNA. (HA! See what I did there? :rotflmao: )

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#12

Post by Dandelion » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:03 am

Lani wrote:I'm getting involved in family genealogy. I got sucked into it because my mom never knew where her father was buried (her mom refused to discuss him), and it saddened her all of her life. He died when she was a toddler. Over 15 years ago, I was in California and realized I wasn't that far from Marysville, where my mom was born. I drove there, spoke with the nice people at the library, found some newspaper items from pre-1920, and checked every grave in the old cemetery. That search was unsuccessful, but very interesting as the survivors of the Donner disaster settled in that town and had some great gravestones!

1. Are there good sources for data outside of Ancestry, or is it worthwhile to join and have the whole lot in one place? I'm finding that almost every time I get close to something I'm investigating, I wind up at Ancestry. :madguy:

4. DNA tests. There are a bunch of them. Is anyone worried about privacy and potential abuse of the information? I hadn't considered that to be a problem until recently when the AHCA included requiring employees to turn over genetic testing to employers who have wellness programs. That indicates to me that genetic records will lose their privacy protections in the future. Also, which tests are the most accurate and detailed? Good and bad experiences?
re 1. Ancestry has a lot of information, and works behind the scene to connect you with likely matches, as well as gives you access to public records all in one place. I think it is worth it to join and spend lots and lots of time on it now, and then lapse your subscription when you've got enough info.

re 4. I did 23 and Me back when you could also get the health results for only 99.00. I'd do it again today for the higher price. The DNA Relatives feature is particularly interesting as it displays close relatives (that you may not know about) if they have also tested. You will find out a lot about where your ancestors have come from.
Yes, there are some privacy concerns as there are questionnaires to fill out. I forget whether you can opt out of those. Answering the questions probably just helps researchers answer bigger questions, and I think the potential for abuse of your information is fairly small, but then i'm a glass 3/4 full type of person.

Good luck with your quest.

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#13

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:24 am

Check your local library, most/many of them anymore will have in house online subscriptions that their patrons can use, much better than shelling out what Ancestry and the Newspaper outfit want per year. The LDS has a good, although spotty vital records collection. What they have though is very good and thorough, but it is not consistent. You can probably get on line access to the census records through you library as well. The greater majority are now indexed and are largely reliable, although there will be times when you just go through an enumeration for an area and look line by line as the name you are looking for was either misspelled or missed, or it really wasn't the name you thought it was. Sometimes, names you thought you knew, you really didn't. Find A Grave can be a real help, depending on whether the cemetery you're interested in has been done or not. The thing is, that a lot of this you can do from home on your own computer if you've got a good enough internet connection and your library has the use at home subscriptions.
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Slarti the White
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#14

Post by Slarti the White » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:48 am

Lani,

Use whatever site you want to for your DNA testing, but once you've got it done get the data and take it to GEDmatch. This will allow your data to be tested against everyone in their database (who will also have access to your data --- more on privacy in a bit) instead of just those who used the same company as you did. I've got some things going on in meatspace which will dictate whether or not I've have time to spend on this stuff myself, but, if I do, I will help you all I can.

As far as privacy goes, putting your profile on GEDmatch is kind of like making your DNA open source --- which is very good if you are trying to find relatives and theoretically could be bad in a distopian future where, say, Russian hackers manipulate US electi... um... move along, nothing to see here. Seriously, there are concerns and the law in this area is pretty much a mish-mash of legislation enacted before the technology existed, legislation enacted without an understanding of the implications of the technology, and legislation that hasn't been written yet. Who knows what will happen in the Trump administration and beyond? I have thoughts about what should happen and hope to have some role in what does happen, but, for now, I don't think you should worry about getting your DNA tested and I believe that sharing your DNA with open sites such as GEDmatch is the right thing to do. It is also what I've done myself.

Anyway, keep us posted as you poke around in your molecular identity.
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#15

Post by Slarti the White » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:49 am

ND,

The LDS thing is a good pro tip.
:towel:
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#16

Post by maydijo » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:26 am

Family Search has many of the LDS records available for free on line. One tip - don't trust the IGI. It was a database composed in part by personal submissions and as I've said already, some people are really sloppy with their family history. Use it as a starting point, bit verify the information yourself before you take it as gospel truth.

Family Search also has a nifty family tree printable template with lots of options to pick from, in case you're looking for a, errr, low cost but nice present for someone in your family. Print it off, pop it in a frame, and you're done.

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#17

Post by Lani » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:52 am

From an early age, every summer I was shown grave sites of my ancestors in the south. Since the families lived on the same land for 300+ years, most graves were on the properties. I think the oldest I saw was 1635. Our job was to clean out the engraving to keep it readable. That and collect eggs and churn butter. No interest in further cemetery visits. Finding my grandfather was a promise I made to my mom, and I'm glad to have finally fulfilled it. I think it was find-a-grave where I located it, and there was something about flowers and a photo. I'll follow up on it. I'd love to have a photo of his grave stone with flowers. A circle will be completed.

I lack older relatives. My mom was the end of the road for that branch of the family in terms of information, and she was cut off from the dad's side and could later locate very little information as everyone had passed on at an early age. I might have cousins from her half sister and brother on her mom's side. On my father's side, like I said, there is a lot of information, although I've learned that some people have been "disappeared". Like a suffragist. Probably any yankees, non-whitey whites and non-fundies as well. Additionally, I've found a lot data including various documents like wills and contracts from the very early days of the colony and the splinter group which included my family. Lots of white guys, few English women. DNA testing might connect me with a lot of interesting distant relatives!

I'm not in touch with that side of the family, which was petering out with my generation anyway. Like I wrote, fundies. It was not acceptable for a female to get a college degree and a career. They cried when I graduated with an advanced degree and bought a home. No man would want me, and I was violating god's law. :roll: (See why I :roll: when people say just go talk to the WWC evangelicals? You are a puppet of satan. You are going to hell. Everyone will chat politely and then hope to never see you again.) But who knows? Maybe the younger generation is becoming freer, and I'll hear from someone when I get the search underway.

The funny part of the story is that the splinter group was a bunch of radicals and libertarians. They were brewing liquor, putting on plays, opening pubs and having tax rebellions long before anywhere else and in defiance of the laws of the time.

I'm currently on a small, rural island, but will check with our one little library about access to records. We have a couple of small LDS churches. Do I contact them to learn about how to access its database? Or contact the main place (church? don't know the terminology) on Oahu? Thanks for the ideas. I'm glad I asked about how to do this project - forum peeps know everything! :thumbs:
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#18

Post by maydijo » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:12 am

Most stake centres have family history libraries, usually with a separate phone number, so you should be able to google it by googling "(location) LDS family history library". I am almost certain familysearch.org has all the records, and it's free to make an account, but it's still worth calling the local family history library because they might be able to give you hints and tips of where else you can look. It can be a little bit hit and miss depending on the volunteers and their level of knowledge but they will hopefully know someone who knows someone who can help.

Your family! Eeek! I'm sorry. You did great escaping that influence and not letting it determine your own goals. Family can sometimes be a real pain in the butt.

Have you tried Google Earth for a picture of the grave? If you know roughly where it is, it might be worth a shot.

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#19

Post by Slarti the White » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:13 am

Lani,

I would contact whomever is most convenient and explain what you are trying to get --- one suspects you will find the Mormons polite and helpful. Besides, while the LDS is an outstanding secondary source of information, you will likely want multiple secondary sources, so you will want to become familiar with the process of obtaining this sort of information. Leveraging this against your DNA data should produce results pretty quickly, especially if other close relatives have been tested.
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#20

Post by Lani » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:24 am

Slartibartfast wrote:Lani,
:snippity:
Seriously, there are concerns and the law in this area is pretty much a mish-mash of legislation enacted before the technology existed, legislation enacted without an understanding of the implications of the technology, and legislation that hasn't been written yet. Who knows what will happen in the Trump administration and beyond? I have thoughts about what should happen and hope to have some role in what does happen, but, for now, I don't think you should worry about getting your DNA tested and I believe that sharing your DNA with open sites such as GEDmatch is the right thing to do. It is also what I've done myself.
I agree that it's the right thing to do... theoretically. On the other hand, I'm concerned about the way things are going and the possibility that I'd be creating problems for offspring and the kids not yet born. We don't know what will happen. As an example, I have friends who opted out of genetic testing regarding an increased likelihood for a disease in their ethnic heritage. They were concerned about increased insurance costs and then being denied treatment - "pre-existing condition" - if they tested positive. Then the ACA came along, and they got tested. Now they are freaking out.

Guess I'll talk to the offspring before making a decision.
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#21

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:31 am

Lani wrote: Apparently, volunteers across the nation go to cemeteries and document the gravestones. )
It's called findagrave and my husband spends every weekend tromping around half the state to take photos of headstones and cemeteries for people who live all over the world. All you have to do is post a request on the site and someone in that area can "claim" the request to go take a photo for you. A lot of them also do some very basic cleaning of the headstones for the photos (soft brush, distilled water...) and he's gone a bunch of times to family cemeteries and helped clean them up or plot out the graves or whatever. He's had some interesting experiences doing it too.

https://findagrave.com/

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#22

Post by Lani » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:15 am

maydijo wrote: :snippity:
Your family! Eeek! I'm sorry. You did great escaping that influence and not letting it determine your own goals. Family can sometimes be a real pain in the butt.
I think there are several of us on the forum with similar situations.

The family blamed it on my dad moving to the northern part of the south. Gave me bad thoughts. I guess in today's parlance, I became "urban". But I blame it on my paternal DNA - descended from a bunch of lawless radicals. :rotflmao: They were some badass people. In the 1600's, when women got fed up with their spouses, they moved out. They were in short supply, so they were able to negotiate better terms with other men. (Another reason why my DNA profile will be very interesting.)

Seriously, tho, I was very concerned that my kid had no contact with any family on my side. I know too well my mom's pain from having no contact with her dad's family. So I found good things to share about the family history because no children should think they are part bad. There are lots of examples of rags to riches and pioneers in several fields including science, aviation and academics, plus the incredible courage of immigrants (although many didn't have a choice). Later when kiddo was on the East Coast for a summer job, I contacted some relatives in hopes of a meeting. It was awkward, but calls occurred and invitations were made. After some chats with them, the kid declined, claiming a work conflict, but told me later "I understand why you moved far away." So I think things are ok with us.
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#23

Post by Lani » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:35 am

Sugar Magnolia wrote: It's called findagrave and my husband spends every weekend tromping around half the state to take photos of headstones and cemeteries for people who live all over the world.
:snippity:
https://findagrave.com/
Please tell him that he and the others are greatly appreciated. My mom passed too young in '79. I promised her that I would continue the search to find her father. They made it possible. This has been a very emotional experience for me, and I'm very grateful.
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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#24

Post by maydijo » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:42 am

Family relations in early America were interesting. The average marriage in colonial Virginia only lasted 10 years. It wasn't uncommon for children to be raised by someone they had no genetic relationship to (e.g. Mother would remarry then die, kid would be raised by stepfather and his new wife, sometimes stepfather would die and kid would be raised by stepmother and her new husband.) Common law marriages were common in frontier areas. Eventually a travelling minister would come around and marry couples and baptise children. Often if children were born their births were not registered. I have a couple of ancestors where my mom assumes the child is the genetic child of Joe and Jane Smith because he's listed in the census as being their child, but since Joe and Jane weren't legally married until the child was 8 or 9 and there's no birth certificate, she's really only guessing that the child is theirs and not the product of a previous relationship. We fall into this trap of thinking people were more 'moral' in the goof ol days but no, they weren't. The number of pregnant brides walking down the aisle in the 1800s was yuge. (Or as my husband says, "They sure knew how to take care of premature babies back then! He was born only three months after his parents were married!")

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Re: GEDmatch, DNA, genealogy. Help me Obi-wan Slarti

#25

Post by Lani » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:26 am

Yep, that's what I've found in the group I'm looking at. There wasn't a real church structure for some time, so birth and death records are sparse. Most of the info comes from wills, gravestones, and various business contracts, mostly to hire interpreters. My family spoke the local Native American language to the extent they were hired as interpreters, primarily by French fur traders. It's been fascinating to read the contracts with X as the signatures. Plus various demands from the regional government that they ignored. :boxing: I've also found dual families in existence. The English dad had one family with an English wife and another with an NA wife or former indentured servant wife of unknown heritage. Wild times!

One thing I have pinned down is my middle name. I was supposedly named in honor of our first ancestral white American wife in the splinter colony. But new documents show that there were no English women at the time. My name came from an anglicized version of an Algonquin name. He had a later wife from England and two different family lines underway.

The splinter colony was a place of refuge for indentured servants, basically people grabbed from many countries who were shipped against their will and had to work off deportation costs. During the early, pre-slavery years, that included Africans. It was a sanctuary city in today's terminology. I'm quite proud about that! :dance:
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