Plane Crash - Jet Crash

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tek
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#976

Post by tek »

A lot of things about the magneto theory don't really hold together, I'll have to head over to the pilot's forum to see what they are saying..

Each engine has dual mags, so while you don't get full power with a duff mag you still get at least 1/3.. and 3.33 engines in a B17 with no bomb load should at least be able to make it back to the airfield.

OTOH, I guess it is likely that those mags have been rebuilt, and it is possible that there is some issue in how they were rebuilt.. so maybe three or more eventually failed on this flight.. given that at least one ATC/tower conversation has the crew explicitly state a problem with a mag, maybe this plane has a history of mag problems.. and if that is true there may be an important maintenance/reporting issue with this class of flights.

All of this to say there isn't enough info in the preliminary report to really tell.. and many many flights happen every day with magneto-ignition aircraft..

And I'm just Self-Loading Freight, so I an probably full of bologna.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#977

Post by RTH10260 »

tek wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:30 pm A lot of things about the magneto theory don't really hold together, I'll have to head over to the pilot's forum to see what they are saying..

Each engine has dual mags, so while you don't get full power with a duff mag you still get at least 1/3.. and 3.33 engines in a B17 with no bomb load should at least be able to make it back to the airfield.

OTOH, I guess it is likely that those mags have been rebuilt, and it is possible that there is some issue in how they were rebuilt.. so maybe three or more eventually failed on this flight.. given that at least one ATC/tower conversation has the crew explicitly state a problem with a mag, maybe this plane has a history of mag problems.. and if that is true there may be an important maintenance/reporting issue with this class of flights.

All of this to say there isn't enough info in the preliminary report to really tell.. and many many flights happen every day with magneto-ignition aircraft..

And I'm just Self-Loading Freight, so I an probably full of bologna.
As I recall the reports the engine with the failing magneto was put out of service with the propellers set to glide mode. It seems that another engine developed some malfunction.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#978

Post by Addie »

NBC News
Multiple Houses on Fire After Plane Crashes in New Jersey

At least two houses are on fire in Colonia, New Jersey, after a plane crash, according to the Colonia Fire Department.

A Cessna 414 crashed into a home on Berkley Avenue at 11 a.m., according to the FAA. The FAA is enroute to the scene to begin the investigation.

A Cessna 414 is a twin-engine plane that can carry up to seven people.

The number of people aboard and their conditions are unknown.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#979

Post by Volkonski »

A small plane crashed into a home in Colonia Tuesday morning. At least three homes were on fire following the crash, according to CBS New York, and the Colonia Fire Department said they were "trying to save the neighborhood."


As many as 200 firefighters were said to be battling the blazes after a Cessna 414 crashed into the home at 11 a.m.

The mayor of Colonial, John McCormac, said the pilot was the only person on the aircraft.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/plane-cras ... d=76124298
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#980

Post by tencats »

New report reveals why Boeing's 737 Max has taken so long to return to service
Today 1 hour ago https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... or-2019-11
Initially, Boeing said it would be able to develop and implement the fix to the automated system known as MCAS, or the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System within a matter of weeks, later revising that to several months in order to fully test and certify the new software.

But in June, as engineers were almost finished designing the fix, several Boeing pilots got into a flight simulator to test "a few things." That was when a simulated computer glitch caused the plane to point its nose down, diving aggressively like the planes in both crashes.

The outcome of that simulator flight, a decision to completely redesign the 737 Max's flight computer architecture, led to extensive delays that have dragged on through the summer and fall, and now threaten Boeing's ability to deliver aircraft, book new orders, and maintain revenue expectations.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#981

Post by tek »

It is maybe worse than that. Boeing is trying desperately to NOT redesign the flight control computer architecture, because that's a task measured in years. They are working to come up with some hack that will satisfy the regulators and (airline) customers.

What seems to be the case (from my perspective as SLF1) is that the change to physically much larger engines causes the airframe to have a tendency to pitch up, and in a "low speed stall" situation this causes the control forces to not meet the FAA rules (the control forces get lighter, causing the pilot, intentionally or not, to pull further back, further into the stall)

MCAS was created to 'solve' a different airframe stability problem, but "hey it's there we can use it to solve this problem too!"

So, we have bandaids on top of chewing gum on top of bailing wire. All because Boeing (first order) was financially incented to avoid pilot retraining, and (second order) didn't want to spend the time/money to implement what was needed to deal with the fundamental issues with the airframe.

Just MHO, I'm sure GG could correct me..

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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#982

Post by RTH10260 »

ETA moved to >Economy > Airline Industry
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#983

Post by Slim Cognito »

:shock:
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#984

Post by GreatGrey »

On the 19th the NTSB released 3000 pages of documents regarding the Atlas Air 3591 crash in Houston. https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitl ... 94646BA690

My former airline... it’s personally sickening to see what lengths the training department went thru to put some unqualified guys in the cockpit.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#985

Post by Lani »

A helicopter, not a plane.

On December 26, we starting hearing that a tour copter was late in returning. And our hearts immediately sunk. Emergency responders headed to the Na Pali coast in boats, planes and helicopters during unsafe conditions. We've been going through bad weather for days. High waves, wind, rain bursts. It took awhile to locate the crash, but it was too dangerous to attempt to reach site. A short period of calm came, so then the responders were able to reach it. They were able to reach it again for short periods over the past few days.

From the careful wording of the police statements, we figured out that body parts were being gathered.

Today we learned that the copter hit a cliff at 2900 feet, then fell 100 feet and burst into flames. It was very dangerous to reach the site. NTSB is here, but won't attempt to reach the site until weather improves.

Swiss parents and their two children, a mainland mom and her daughter, and the pilot. Gone. :crying:
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#986

Post by neonzx »

:(

The early reports are bad weather as a significant factor. I'm not a fan of helicopters in general. -- 'cause they just fall straight down if the engine(s) fail.

The tour operator should have cancelled but $$ leads to poor judgement.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#987

Post by Lani »

There's always been a lot anger about the helicopters here. Especially for those in the flight paths. There is a deep suspicion that the helicopter companies take needless risks. Our Congresscritter Ed Case is demanding changes - which isn't new for him. His big issue is that the pilot needs to pilot, not also be a tour guide, too, as the pilot of this crash was.

When I first arrived in Hawaii, I had to research cases about liability. Helicopter crashes frequently showed up, scaring me from ever getting into one!

Four crashes in 2019. :(

Weather changes quickly here, especially during the winter which is our rainy season. Last week every day had sudden changes. High winds, heavy rai, power outages. Then blue skies and a pleasant breeze. Then another downpour and flooded roads - usually during rush hour, but a beautiful sunset when I get home. The Na Pali side of the island seemed to be ok that day, except for the high surf, but not for long. Plus the copter was flying over the canyon, where the winds intensify suddenly. But that's winter in Hawaii.

Meanwhile, we are full of tourists who ignore ocean warnings. Over 16 visitors today had to be rescued from the ocean despite posted warnings at the beaches. The helicopter company, however, has no excuse.

My son loves to hike and camp in Waimea Canyon, which the copter was flying over just before crashing. It is a stunningly beautiful place, but cell phones don't work there. Scares the hell out of me every time he goes. There is no way to call for help. Pretty routinely, hikers find an injured person and have to trek out of the valley to get help and a working phone.

But don't let that stuff deter you from visiting! We've got plenty of safe places!
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#988

Post by Kendra »

Thanks for the update and local input. The crash made the national news at first, then fizzled out.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#989

Post by Lani »

Kendra wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:11 am Thanks for the update and local input. The crash made the national news at first, then fizzled out.
Well, we're a small community. If we don't know the pilot, we know his friends. So it hit all of us hard because we all knew when the flight was late there was a disaster. And late last night we learned that his remains have not recovered from the wreckage because it is too dangerous. So difficult for his family. Plus it's likely that pilot error played a role. But letters of sympathy have arrived from around the world from people who flew on a tour with him and loved him.

I didn't post earlier about the crash because it's such a painful thing for us.

I want to praise the responders who took big risks repeatedly to reach the crash site and gathered everything they could to help the grieving families have closure.

I'm responsible for NTSB assistance for language and ADA access, but no calls so far.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#990

Post by neonzx »

Lani wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:59 am My son loves to hike and camp in Waimea Canyon, which the copter was flying over just before crashing. It is a stunningly beautiful place, but cell phones don't work there. Scares the hell out of me every time he goes. There is no way to call for help. Pretty routinely, hikers find an injured person and have to trek out of the valley to get help and a working phone.
There are options here. Emergency locator transmitters that can send a distress beacon with GPS location. They don't rely on terrestrial/cell tech. They can be rented for a daily fee or purchased for a few hundred dollars and up. It's a good insurance policy for weekend warriors (or worrying parents ).

As I understand, the helicopter involved did have a ELT, but didn't work due to the severity of the crash.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#991

Post by RVInit »

Lani wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:01 am
Kendra wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:11 am Thanks for the update and local input. The crash made the national news at first, then fizzled out.
Well, we're a small community. If we don't know the pilot, we know his friends. So it hit all of us hard because we all knew when the flight was late there was a disaster. And late last night we learned that his remains have not recovered from the wreckage because it is too dangerous. So difficult for his family. Plus it's likely that pilot error played a role. But letters of sympathy have arrived from around the world from people who flew on a tour with him and loved him.

I didn't post earlier about the crash because it's such a painful thing for us.

I want to praise the responders who took big risks repeatedly to reach the crash site and gathered everything they could to help the grieving families have closure.

I'm responsible for NTSB assistance for language and ADA access, but no calls so far.
I am so sorry, Lani. :bighug:
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#992

Post by Lani »

Thank you! I'll feel a lot better the next time he visits!

The last time he hiked in, he got out just before the weather turned significantly. He was supposed to spend a few more days, but wisely left and was able to reach an area where he could call me.

The canyon is gorgeous. It's wonderful to hike. But you need to take care.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#993

Post by Kendra »

Lani wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:34 am Thank you! I'll feel a lot better the next time he visits!

The last time he hiked in, he got out just before the weather turned significantly. He was supposed to spend a few more days, but wisely left and was able to reach an area where he could call me.

The canyon is gorgeous. It's wonderful to hike. But you need to take care.
This is sad :crying:

Your comments about the pilot being the four guide reminded me of the Ride the Ducks accident in Seattle a few years ago and similar complaints about driver distraction. I know I wouldn't drive the downtown streets without giving it full attention and both hands on the wheel, especially on the bridge where it happened. IIRC, changes were made to have two on board.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#994

Post by Volkonski »

Not all the news about planes is bad. :)
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Air crash deaths globally fall by more than half in 2019 https://cbsn.ws/37qEo6Z
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#995

Post by RTH10260 »

:twisted: with the 737MAX grounded... :twisted:
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#996

Post by Maybenaut »


Ukrainian passenger jet carrying over 170 people crashes in Iran, killing all on board


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/uk ... story.html
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#997

Post by RTH10260 »

New Video Shows Two Iranian Missiles Hit Ukrainian Plane
Security camera footage verified by The New York Times shows that two missiles fired 30 seconds apart took down Flight 752, killing all aboard.

By Malachy Browne, Evan Hill, Logan Mitchell and Barbara Marcolini
Jan. 14, 2020

A new video, verified by The New York Times, shows that the Iranian military launched two missiles at the passenger jet in around 30 seconds. The plane, ablaze, continued flying for several minutes before crashing and killing all 176 people on board.CreditCredit...The New York Times
The New York Times has verified security camera footage on Tuesday that shows, for the first time, that two missiles hit Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 on Jan. 8. The missiles were launched from an Iranian military site around eight miles from the plane.
The new video fills a gap about why the plane’s transponder stopped working, seconds before it was hit by a second missile.

An earlier Times analysis confirmed what Iran later admitted: that an Iranian missile did strike the plane. The Times also established that the transponder stopped working before that missile hit the plane. The new video appears to confirm that an initial strike disabled the transponder, before the second strike, also seen in the video, around 23 seconds later.

Neither strike downed the plane immediately. The new video shows the airliner on fire, circling back toward Tehran’s international airport. Minutes later it exploded and crashed down, narrowly missing the village of Khalaj Abad, an earlier Times video reconstruction, below, shows.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/worl ... video.html
Note: I remember some news item that mentioned that the type of AA-battery is programmed to shoot twice.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#998

Post by GreatGrey »

Well, one less MD-80



#Caspian Airlines plane emergency landing off the airport runway somewhere in the city of #Mahshahr #Iran #ماهشهر
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#999

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

A good landing is one you can walk away from.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1000

Post by Mikedunford »

I love that everyone clearly listened to the instructions about leaving your bags behind.
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