Plane Crash - Jet Crash

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Suranis
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#726

Post by Suranis » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:54 am

Thank goodness everyone is ok.


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TollandRCR
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#727

Post by TollandRCR » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:03 am

There is something about this crash that reminds me of the Asiana Airlines Flight 214 crash at SFO. That is, this sounds like pilot error.


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#728

Post by GreatGrey » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:15 am

TollandRCR wrote:There is something about this crash that reminds me of the Asiana Airlines Flight 214 crash at SFO. That is, this sounds like pilot error.
Emirates is heavy on having UK expat pilots, they're usually very good.


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#729

Post by TollandRCR » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:01 am

The temperature at Dubai International Airport has been reported by various sources as having been between 45C and 50C (113F and 122F). While this is not a Death Valley record temperature, I suspect that some things (besides humans) do not work so well at that temperature. Is this true of anything on a Boeing 777?

I am impressed at how well that airplane withstood the crash. It did what it is supposed to do.

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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#730

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:02 am

TollandRCR wrote:There is something about this crash that reminds me of the Asiana Airlines Flight 214 crash at SFO. That is, this sounds like pilot error.
Except coming in to high. Followed up with my guesswork of: and/or not bringing the plane to touchdown with in time, or just a fraction late on the go-around decision, rather than rolling over the end of the landing strip. Was a pilot in training in command?



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#731

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:10 am

Terrified passengers 'told by pilot moments before landing that there was a problem with the landing gear'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lands.html



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nbc
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#732

Post by nbc » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:12 pm

Single fatality was a fire fighter who was fighting the fire when the plane exploded.



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#733

Post by GreatGrey » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:45 pm

Ok, pure conjecture on my part based on a couple of pieces and some system knowledge.

Transport jet engines have 2 idle settings. The names vary by plane and engine manufacturer, but you can think of them as normal (low) idle and flight (high) idle.

When the plane is configured for landing the engine idle goes to flight idle. This higher idle speed reduces spool up time if a go around is needed.

So, the crew forgot to extend the landing gear, the engines stayed in low idle. In the flare the pilot pulled the throttles to the idle stop and got a configuration warning horn.

By the time the crew figured out what the horn was about the engines had settled in at low idle. The crew initiated a go around, but the engines didn't respond immediately, and the plane went down. The temperature didn't help them either.

Anyway, just a scenario I came up with.


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#734

Post by esseff44 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:50 pm

They forgot to extend the landing gear? That's unbelievable.



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#735

Post by TollandRCR » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:01 pm

Some passengers have been reported saying that the pilot had announced an emergency landing because the landing gear was not working. Some are saying that there was smoke in the cabin before the landing. Neither of these may be true, not because the passengers are knowingly
Edit: lying
but instead because they are trying to reconstruct in their minds something that makes sense to them. Other passengers have been interviewed and have not reported either a warning or smoke.


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#736

Post by GreatGrey » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:03 pm

esseff44 wrote:They forgot to extend the landing gear? That's unbelievable.
Yeah, but it happens. That's why there's a warning horn.


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#737

Post by Sam the Centipede » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:50 pm

GreatGrey wrote:Ok, pure conjecture on my part based on a couple of pieces and some system knowledge.

Transport jet engines have 2 idle settings. The names vary by plane and engine manufacturer, but you can think of them as normal (low) idle and flight (high) idle.

When the plane is configured for landing the engine idle goes to flight idle. This higher idle speed reduces spool up time if a go around is needed.

So, the crew forgot to extend the landing gear, the engines stayed in low idle. In the flare the pilot pulled the throttles to the idle stop and got a configuration warning horn.

By the time the crew figured out what the horn was about the engines had settled in at low idle. The crew initiated a go around, but the engines didn't respond immediately, and the plane went down. The temperature didn't help them either.

Anyway, just a scenario I came up with.
Not a pilot ... so from a position of high ignorance ... there have been instances of pilots of big jets getting into a mess during approaches to landing and not being able to recover because the engines weren't spooled. One instance I recall vaguely had a pilot from an Asian country starting his landing with the engines barely running so they couldn't power him out of his mess when he clipped a fence or something like that. The reports (and perhaps comments here) said that American and European pilots tend to ensure that the engines are spooled so they can get power on faster if they need it.

As I said, I'm not a pilot, so I'm askin' not sayin'



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#738

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:36 pm

Crazy, passengers going for their hand luggage rather than emergency debark immediately...

https://youtu.be/4XjnbO4sKu4



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#739

Post by Adrianinflorida » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:18 am

esseff44 wrote:They forgot to extend the landing gear? That's unbelievable.
Not impossible, though. And the bit of video seems to indicate it might be the cause.



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#740

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:18 am

Nothing new to be seen in the news.

One item mentions change of direction of strong wind just at the moment of approach.

Interesting technological tid-bit: as the accident happened at the home base airport, the plane in its mangled state still managed to transmit all available flight data to the Emirates Tech Center. It's said they had the full contents of the black boxes transferred by wireless / wifi within ten minutes of the crash!



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#741

Post by TollandRCR » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:55 pm

NDTV (New Delhi TV?) reports that it has exclusively gained access to the report filed by the pilots of the Emirates plane that crashed in Dubai.
"During flare, updraft caused the a/c [aircraft] to float till after the end of the touchdown zone, we decided to G/A [go around]." In other words, the gusting winds meant the pilots were unable to land the jet safely at the spot on the runway they had chosen. With the length of the runway running out, they opted to abort the landing for the "go around".

It was here that things went disastrously wrong. Shear is a potentially hazardous condition involving sudden and unpredictable changes in wind direction or speed. Very often, wind shear conditions are impossible to detect by any systems even on modern aircraft.

The pilots write that initially, the go-around appeared to be working but then, "Speed dropped rapidly below the top of amber band due to W/S [wind shear]. W/S proc [wind shear procedure] was done, however the A/C [aircraft] crash landed on the RW [runway] and skidded off it to come to a complete stop off the R/W [runway] with fire and fumes covering the whole A/C [aircraft]."

What it means is this: the aircraft seemed to be gaining altitude which is why the undercarriage (landing gear) was retracted. But then, the aircraft did not continue to climb away as expected because of wind shear conditions. Despite the pilots working a procedure to deal with this emergency situation, the Boeing 777's air speed dropped rapidly, and the aircraft crashed and skidded off the runway before coming to a complete stop.
NDTV was told by another Boeing aircraft pilot that the engines were probably at their lowest power setting when the pilots began the attempt to climb.

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/exclusiv ... ng-1443021


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#742

Post by Foggy » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:36 pm

That makes sense, and I wonder if that can be called pilot error. Wind shear is nasty.


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#743

Post by RTH10260 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:33 pm

At Chicago O'Hare, American Airlines 767 catches fire on runway
By Steve Almasy, CNN
Updated 2323 GMT (0723 HKT) October 28, 2016

Fire official says the incident could have been far worse if the fire started a little bit later
20 people suffered minor slide injuries


(CNN)Terrified passengers aboard an American Airlines 767 that aborted takeoff on a runway at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport scrambled to safety Friday afternoon after huge flames erupted on the right side of the plane.

Airport fire Chief Timothy Sampey said crews responded to a report of a No. 2 engine on fire. The plane, which had stopped well before the end of the runway, had about 43,000 pounds of fuel on board.

"This could have been absolutely devastating if it happened later," he said.

About 20 people people were taken to the hospital with minor injuries that occurred during the evacuation down the emergency slides, District Chief Juan Hernandez said. There were people with minor bruising or injured ankles, he said. None of the injuries were caused by the fire.

American Airlines spokeswoman Leslie Scott said 170 people -- including 161 passengers -- and one dog were on board Flight 383 bound for Miami when it aborted takeoff due to an engine-related mechanical issue.

[liveleak]490f66ce9563[/liveleak]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2kTfcivX9s



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#744

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:05 pm

In case you are missing your mail tomorrow:
FedEx cargo plane burns at Fort Lauderdale airport
By Jon Ostrower and Ralph Ellis, CNN
Updated 0212 GMT (1012 HKT) October 29, 2016

(CNN) A FedEx cargo plane caught fire on the runway at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport on Friday afternoon, causing the airport to shut down for several hours, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

Video shot by an onlooker at the airport showed a fireball exploding out of the damaged aircraft and recorded the startled cries of people watching.
The pilot and copilot escaped harm using a rope ladder on the right side of the aircraft, according to Mike Jachles of Broward Sheriff Fire Rescue. No members of the ground crews were hurt, he added.

The fire occurred after the plane's landing gear collapsed as it touched ground, the FAA said. The Boeing MD-10 was operating as Flight 910 from Memphis, Tennessee, where FedEx is based.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/28/us/fe ... lane-fire/



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#745

Post by Volkonski » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:11 pm

RTH10260 wrote:In case you are missing your mail tomorrow:
FedEx cargo plane burns at Fort Lauderdale airport
By Jon Ostrower and Ralph Ellis, CNN
Updated 0212 GMT (1012 HKT) October 29, 2016

(CNN) A FedEx cargo plane caught fire on the runway at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport on Friday afternoon, causing the airport to shut down for several hours, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

Video shot by an onlooker at the airport showed a fireball exploding out of the damaged aircraft and recorded the startled cries of people watching.
The pilot and copilot escaped harm using a rope ladder on the right side of the aircraft, according to Mike Jachles of Broward Sheriff Fire Rescue. No members of the ground crews were hurt, he added.

The fire occurred after the plane's landing gear collapsed as it touched ground, the FAA said. The Boeing MD-10 was operating as Flight 910 from Memphis, Tennessee, where FedEx is based.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/28/us/fe ... lane-fire/
:o

Good thing we use UPS for our cat food deliveries. :thumbs:


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#746

Post by MRich » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:46 pm

maybe someone was shipping a Samsung Galaxy Note 7



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#747

Post by esseff44 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:55 pm

MRich wrote:maybe someone was shipping a Samsung Galaxy Note 7
It said the landing gear collapsed. That would do it.



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#748

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:05 am

Plane crashed without fuel, officials investigating
By Reuters
PUBLISHED: 13:37 GMT, 1 December 2016 | UPDATED: 13:37 GMT, 1 December 2016

MEDELLIN, Colombia, Dec 1 (Reuters) - The plane that crashed in Colombia killing 71 people including most of a Brazilian soccer team had no fuel on impact, according to initial findings by aviation officials, prompting an investigation into why the plane flew under those conditions.

The comments by the civil aviation authority late Wednesday night confirmed Bolivian pilot Miguel Quiroga's final words to the control tower at Medellin's airport on a crackly audio obtained by Colombian media.

"When we arrived at the accident site and were able to inspect the remains we could confirm that the aircraft had no fuel at the time of impact," said Freddy Bonilla, secretary of airline security at Colombia's aviation authority.

A recording of the pilot's final words can be heard telling the control tower the plane was "in total failure, total electrical failure, without fuel."
He requested urgent permission to land before the audio went silent. The BAe 146, made by BAE Systems Plc, slammed into a mountainside next to the town of La Union outside Medellin.

Only six on board the LAMIA Bolivia charter flight survived, including three of the Chapecoense soccer team en route to the Copa Sudamericana final, the biggest game in their history, a journalist and two crew members.

International flight regulations require aircraft to carry enough reserve fuel so they can fly for 30 minutes after reaching their destination in case they need to circle before landing or fly to another airport.k
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuter ... ating.html



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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#749

Post by Addie » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:36 am

WaPo
No survivors found after Russian military plane with 92 on board crashes en route to Syria

MOSCOW — A Russian military passenger plane carrying dozens of Red Army Choir singers, dancers and orchestra members plunged into the Black Sea minutes after it took off en route Sunday to a military base in Syria, killing all 92 people on board, Russia’s Defense Ministry said.

The cause of the crash had yet to be determined Sunday afternoon. Officials were ruling out terrorism, though Russia’s Federal Security Service was looking into everyone who could have come in contact with the jet on the ground.

Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, a military spokesman, told reporters that no one survived after the aging Soviet-era jet, which had set out from Moscow, crashed shortly a refueling stop at the airport in the Black Sea resort city of Sochi. ...

Russian news agencies reported that the plane crashed about two minutes after taking off in good weather. It had not sent a distress signal before disappearing from the radar, and no life rafts had been found by 3,000 people engaged in the recovery. Konashenkov described the captain of the jet as an experienced “first-class pilot.” ...

The Tu-154 is a Soviet-built, three-engine airliner designed in the late 1960s that was the workhorse of the Soviet, and later Russian, fleet of intermediate-range passenger jets. In recent years, Russian airlines have replaced the jets with modern aircraft — often manufactured by Boeing or Airbus — but the military and some other government agencies in Russia have continued to use them.


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#750

Post by SueDB » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:11 pm

The TU 154 is a Soviet ripoff copy of the Boeing 727. As far as I know, there aren't any 727s flying for US flagged carriers.


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