Plane Crash - Jet Crash

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1001

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Mikedunford wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:34 am
I love that everyone clearly listened to the instructions about leaving your bags behind.
I confess I'd probably grab my bag of I thought I could without creating additional risk. Who knows how long it might be before one can get one's passport, keys, phone etc. back of they're on a plane cordoned off by security and crash investigators?

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Whatever4
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1002

Post by Whatever4 »

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:48 am
Mikedunford wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:34 am
I love that everyone clearly listened to the instructions about leaving your bags behind.
I confess I'd probably grab my bag of I thought I could without creating additional risk. Who knows how long it might be before one can get one's passport, keys, phone etc. back of they're on a plane cordoned off by security and crash investigators?
Anything under my seat, maybe. Purse, small pack, yes. But suitcases from the overhead? :fingerwag:
Sekrit Stuffs!
That said, years ago our apartment building went up in flames at 2:00 AM. Fire was coming in the living room windows, which had shattered from the heat. W2 tried to call 911, but the phone was dead. I picked up his pants to hand to him. “Drop them” he ordered, years of hearing his volunteer fireman dad drilling in to just leave, don’t stop to take anything. So I did and we ran out in the street in our underwear/sleep shirt. Leaving the pants. With keys, wallet, credit card...

Years later, W2 has a heart attack at 3:00AM as the paramedics were taking him out in the gurney doing CPR, I said I needed to get his pants. “He won’t need them,” they said. But I retrieved his keys, wallet, phone anyway. I’d learned.

So... in event of a plane crash, I’m taking the pants.
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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1003

Post by Sam the Centipede »

With you, W4. Little things.

There's something to be said for having a "grab bag" of those essentials for when disasters occur … but they're essentials because they're needed and used so can't be stuffed away in a bag all the time.

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SLQ
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1004

Post by SLQ »

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:39 pm
With you, W4. Little things.

There's something to be said for having a "grab bag" of those essentials for when disasters occur … but they're essentials because they're needed and used so can't be stuffed away in a bag all the time.
And as far as the plane goes, it would make sense to have your passport and wallet in one of those things that hang around your neck or in a fanny pack -- the you keep on you during the flight.
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RoadScholar
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1005

Post by RoadScholar »

I go the extra mile and wear a leather jacket on airplanes, whatever the weather.
The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.
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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1006

Post by Sam the Centipede »

RoadScholar wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:13 pm
I go the extra mile and wear a leather jacket on airplanes, whatever the weather.
Call that prepared? I wear a wet suit under my street clothes, climbing boots with crampons on my feet, I strap a parachute on my back, and I stow a folded sled with a team of freeze-dried huskies in the seat pocket.

Srsly tho, a neighbor of mine had an unanticipated stop-over at Moscow Sheremetyevo one January when flying back from somewhere warm near the equator and she didn't enjoy the -30C/-20F outside in thin beach holiday clothes. It's worth preparing for plausible eventualities.

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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1007

Post by RoadScholar »

Layers, man. Layers. ;)
The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.
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Mikedunford
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1008

Post by Mikedunford »

I never fully appreciated layers until I started spending a lot of time in the UK, where the temperature can sometimes change by 10 degrees during the course of the day. Inside.
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TexasFilly
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1009

Post by TexasFilly »

RoadScholar wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:13 pm
I go the extra mile and wear a leather jacket on airplanes, whatever the weather.
:lol:

I carry a large tote bag on planes that contains, inter alia my purse (I carry smaller purses than I used to), my meds, my ipadmini and headphones. I'd grab that every time.
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tek
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1010

Post by tek »

Mikedunford wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:01 pm
I never fully appreciated layers until I started spending a lot of time in the UK, where the temperature can sometimes change by 10 degrees during the course of the day. Inside.
Yeah, but the toast is always cold.

Anyway, when I travel with my passport, it is on my body (usually in a neck holder).
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1011

Post by kate520 »

Once upon a time two friends and I rescued a family from their burning home at 2am. They were dazed - probably a little carbon monoxide dopey, and we pulled them out of their beds from a dead sleep. As we stood outside in stunned silence watching the flames devour this little house the husband yelled “My boots!!” and ran back in. We tried to stop him. He was back moments later with a look of pure relief on his face and a pair of lightly smoking boots in his hand.

His wife told us in a loud whisper “That’s our life savings in there. $10,000. We don’t trust banks.”
DEFEND DEMOCRACY

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Lani
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1012

Post by Lani »

About the helicopter crash recently on Kauai:

Whistleblowers: FAA refused to inspect Safari helicopters
https://www.thegardenisland.com/2020/02 ... licopters/
Monfort, a retired U.S. Army helicopter pilot and principal operations inspector in Hawai‘i since 2009, said his requests to inspect Safari Aviation in September and November were denied by FAA managers, “making it next to impossible” for him to perform adequate oversight.

Monfort alleged that he was suspended twice because of his repeated appeals to senior management in the Hawai‘i office to have his direct manager’s decisions overturned.

According to the Senate committee’s report, Monfort initiated a review of Safari’s training program due to “deficiencies” he noted during a check ride with the same pilot involved in the December crash, a revelation U.S. Rep. Ed Case (D-urban Oahu) described as “shocking” during an interview Friday, calling Monfort’s allegations about Safari helicopters “very disturbing.”

Case ... said the numerous administration employees who have come forward in recent months seem to indicate “a much broader problem” within the FAA.

Monfort also reported allegations of lax oversight at the administration’s Hawai‘i office, and told the committee’s investigative staff that some managers “have an inappropriately close relationship” with Novictor Aviation, a helicopter tour operator involved in three Hawai‘i crashes in the last two years.
A family of 2 and a family of 4 died. Three children. :twoup: :mad2:

John Thomas8
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1013

Post by John Thomas8 »


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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1014

Post by GreatGrey »

GreatGrey wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm
On the 19th the NTSB released 3000 pages of documents regarding the Atlas Air 3591 crash in Houston. https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitl ... 94646BA690

My former airline... it’s personally sickening to see what lengths the training department went thru to put some unqualified guys in the cockpit.
When I read those docs it became apparent the NTSB was about to do something unusual for them, they were gonna burn the individuals running Atlas’s training department to the ground.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/busine ... 10511.html

Top Atlas Air flight training directors retire as government crash investigation looms
Nearly one year after Miami International Airport’s largest cargo airline Atlas Air crashed a plane killing three pilots, two top directors of the company’s training program in Miami suddenly retired this week.

Fleet captain Joe Diedrich and training director Scott Anderson abruptly left the company Tuesday. An internal email titled “Miami Training Center: Organizational Update” from senior vice president Jeff Carlson announced their departures as retirements. The shakeup comes as the National Transportation Safety Board’s final report about the fatal Feb. 23, 2019, crash is pending and the company reported a deep earnings loss for 2019.

The Atlas Air Flight 3591 crash happened as Diedrich was head of the Boeing 767 training program and Anderson was overseeing procedures, training and standards for the entire airline.
I am not "someone upthread".
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1015

Post by Dave at Sea »

Russia engaged in 'textbook' disinformation campaign, MH17 trial told

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-11/ ... n/12044384

From the very beginning, Russia had engaged in a "textbook" campaign of disinformation as it tried to "thwart" the investigation into the downing of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

The prosecutors told the court it was possible Russia successfully hacked the multi-nation investigation into the shooting down of the plane, as it peddled misinformation and tried to fuel confusion.

"The sum of all the facts casts a dark shadow over this investigation because there is strong indicative evidence the Russian Government is keen to thwart the investigation," prosecutor Thijs Berger told the hearing, part of which focused on testimony by witnesses who have not yet been named.

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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1016

Post by RTH10260 »

tek wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:14 pm
B-17 WWII plane crash at Bradley Airport

That's my usual airport. Son in law works across the street at Collins Aerospace, says quite the commotion.

My dad has ridden in that exact plane.
Seems to have been maintenance issues by the owning group.
blancolirio wrote:B 17 'Nine-O-Nine Crash UPDATE 27 March 2020
27 Mar 2020

FAA revokes Living History Flight Experience Exemption for the Collings Foundation.

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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1017

Post by tek »

Wow... pretty damning..
Inspection of the engines on the B-17G N93012 established magneto and ignition failures existed. Regarding engine 4, to prevent the magneto “P” leads from separating from the magnetos, someone had attempted to rig the magneto leads in place with safety wire. Inspection and testing of engine 4 left magneto revealed the movement of the safety-wired lead caused grounding to the case, which rendered the magneto lead inoperative. In addition, the right magneto of engine 4 was found unserviceable. The cam follower was worn beyond limits and the point gap was less than half the measurement required by service documents. When tested, the magneto produced weak or no spark to four of the nine cylinders. All spark plugs were inspected and required cleaning and all electrode gaps were out of tolerance; therefore, further engine inspection indicated signs of detonation and associated damage. An inspection of engine 3 showed all spark plugs electrode gaps were out of tolerance, fouled, and revealed various signs of detonation. Further inspection of this engine revealed problems with the cylinders. As a result of these findings and other information, the FAA questions whether the engines were inspected adequately and in accordance with the applicable maintenance requirements.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1018

Post by Sugar Magnolia »

I don't understand all the technical stuff, but this was my brother's (Eaton Aerospace) comment about it.
When I flew on Aluminum Overcast, the EAA’s B-17, my conversations with the crew made it pretty clear that they considered the Collings Foundation’s “909” pretty much a bucket of bolts that wasn’t maintained to EAA’s standards. They were right.

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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1019

Post by RoadScholar »

Spark gaps incorrectly set?!! Holy crap, that’s beyond incompetent.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1020

Post by ZekeB »

RoadScholar wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:15 am
Spark gaps incorrectly set?!! Holy crap, that’s beyond incompetent.
Baling wire fixes. That's much worse.
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ArthurWankspittle
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1021

Post by ArthurWankspittle »

ZekeB wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:34 am
RoadScholar wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:15 am
Spark gaps incorrectly set?!! Holy crap, that’s beyond incompetent.
Baling wire fixes. That's much worse.
:yeah:
Why didn't someone notice it wasn't running right? Misfiring on 4 out of 9 cylinders should be obvious to anyone with some mechanical knowledge. So should misfiring then clearing at least make you think about checking the ignition system. I note there were problems with the cylinder(s) reported too so I'm wondering if there was some oil fouling of the plugs or damage causing hot spots inside the cylinder head. I think the full report will not make happy reading for some people and I expect a number of law suits too.
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ZekeB
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1022

Post by ZekeB »

I’ve watched old DoD “how to fly a” films on Youtube. They did mag checks the same way back then as we do them now. Someone either wasn’t doing their preflight or they ignored part of the preflight.
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1023

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Do modern airplanes have all of the same things to be checked out manually?

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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1024

Post by Frater I*I »

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:35 pm
Do modern airplanes have all of the same things to be checked out manually?
Commercial jet aircraft have heavy maintenance checks, overnight checks, and a system called EICAS {Engine Indication & Crew Alert System] that will bring up maintenance issues and get them corrected. Magnetos would only be used on modern reciprocating engines, turboprop, and jet aircraft don't have them.

That being said, who ever signed off the log book entry after the last annual or 100 hour inspection will be answering questions and looking at time in a federal prison for pencil whipping it...
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Re: Plane Crash - Jet Crash

#1025

Post by ZekeB »

Commercial airlines operate under a different set of rules from those who operate as experimental. Commercial airlines set up their own inspection rules, subject to FAA approval. In the case of a B17 there should have been a magneto check before departure. Each engine has dual magnetos and they are switched back and forth while noting the drop in engine RPM for each. After the check both mags are switched back on. Answering Stern’s question, yes all aircraft have a preflight check. If the engine has magneto ignition you can bet the mags would have a test. Other checks may vary, depending on the engine. Differences would include carburetor vs fuel injection; constant vs variable speed props; etc.

I’m going to speculate that one of the mags on one or more of the engines wasn’t working at all and the crew chose to fly the aircraft anyway.
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